if you wanted a sd40 why buy another kb when you have a genos... or was this to replace the MODX... well what ever you have enjoy it and please share with us ..
Bachus
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Dnj
if you wanted a sd40 why buy another kb when you have a genos... or was this to replace the MODX... well what ever you have enjoy it and please share with us ..
Its the replacement of the modx.. After a few days i started missing the 2nd keyboard.. But its a semi weighted key.. that will sit on top of the Genos
For now, i gave up on my piano explorations Playing 2 different types of action was holding me back according to my piano teacher.. So i made a decission... this week i had my first piano lesson on the Genos.. And guess what i made some progression..
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if you wanted a sd40 why buy another kb when you have a genos... or was this to replace the MODX... well what ever you have enjoy it and please share with us ..
Its the replacement of the modx.. After a few days i started missing the 2nd keyboard.. But its a semi weighted key.. that will sit on top of the Genos
For now, i gave up on my piano explorations Playing 2 different types of action was holding me back according to my piano teacher.. So i made a decission... this week i had my first piano lesson on the Genos.. And guess what i made some progression..
#478709 - 10/23/1910:12 PMRe: Roland..sound...
[Re: Fran Carango]
Bachus
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Then it would be a Jupiter
Precisely..
I think i know what that grin means.. Thats how i have been walking around ever since i made this decision
For those that don’t know.. The jupiter 80 is what could have been the perfect arranger.. It has 4 layered sounds on the left hand Also 4 layered sounds on the right hand It has an extra voice for a solo instrument on the far right And a drum/percussion/bass on the far left And direct controll over all the parts and splits.. It also has harmony settings for the righthand part.. And it has all the super natural sounds on board..
The only thing it does not have is styles.. Just am arpeggiator and drumrythms..
Its also one of those instruments that didn’t sell well But now everyone suddenly wants one.. Which indicates it was far ahead of its time (which is often seen with Roland)
Its also perfectly suited for comtrolling arranger modules, because of this voice structure
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Bachus
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Originally Posted By Crossover
FA-07?
A lovely instrument, but more a workstation then a players instrument, crossed my mind tough..
The jupiter 80 is solely aimed at playing music and having fun.. what makes it so good is over 2500 live sets..of 4 layers for left and right hand.. you can just select and play away..or use for sound creation..
It has all those things inside imlove from arrangers with the exception of styles
Originally Posted By Dnj
Or FA08
Why would i go back to an 88 key, thats just the path i left behind 🤪
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cgiles
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Bachus, just curious. I don't follow these things too closely but I have a barely used (bought new) Fantom G7 with all the upgrades and was wondering what the difference was between it and the Jupiter. I must admit I never really explored the Fantom G7 in depth but always thought it had a lot of features. How would IT have fit the role you have planned for the Jupiter?
chas
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Originally Posted By cgiles
Bachus, just curious. I don't follow these things too closely but I have a barely used (bought new) Fantom G7 with all the upgrades and was wondering what the difference was between it and the Jupiter. I must admit I never really explored the Fantom G7 in depth but always thought it had a lot of features. How would IT have fit the role you have planned for the Jupiter?
chas
Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
But that's exactly what the Jupiter 80 does NOT have: the complete SRX library. None of it. That's why it wouldn't be so appealing to me.
Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
But that's exactly what the Jupiter 80 does NOT have: the complete SRX library. None of it. That's why it wouldn't be so appealing to me.
Well they have to make extra money somehow,...maybe some people don't need or want ALL the SRX sounds and just want specific libraries... all in all the Jupiter 80 is an awesome keyboard for sure.
cgiles
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Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Thanks Fran. It's a good looking keyboard with a GREAT keybed feel but it is waaayyyy too complicated to explore without digging deeply into the manual. You're right about it being a workstation vs performance board as it seems to make no concession to ergonomics and/or easy navigation. The voices are numerous but I never thought they were even close to say the Kronos (which I always intended to trade it for, but never did). I've never been heavily into sequencing or sampling so a lot of the power and features of this board were completely wasted on me. At the time I bought it, it was just too pretty to resist but basically, I enjoy playing way more than 'fiddling' around with menus, knobs, dials, and buttons. I guess (electronically) I like (performance-oriented) SYNTHS more than the more feature-rich WORKSTATIONS. Oh well.
chas
Edited by cgiles (10/24/1907:42 AM)
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Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By Crossover
[quote=Fran Carango] Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
But that's exactly what the Jupiter 80 does NOT have: the complete SRX library. None of it. That's why it wouldn't be so appealing to me.
Well they have to make extra money somehow,...maybe some people don't need or want ALL the SRX sounds and just want specific libraries... all in all the Jupiter 80 is an awesome keyboard for sure. [/quote
The SRX library are the best sounds, less the behavioral quality of Supernatural.
They are one of the main reasons I will buy another Integra7 (but it is best if I wait till February)
#478754 - 10/24/1910:10 AMRe: Roland..sound...
[Re: Fran Carango]
Bachus
Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Originally Posted By cgiles
Bachus, just curious. I don't follow these things too closely but I have a barely used (bought new) Fantom G7 with all the upgrades and was wondering what the difference was between it and the Jupiter. I must admit I never really explored the Fantom G7 in depth but always thought it had a lot of features. How would IT have fit the role you have planned for the Jupiter?
chas
Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
Actually its the other way around... The Jupiter is the super natural instrument The integra inherrited some of that DNA, and much more..
But the Jupiter 80’s engine has more depth in : Live sets.. Harmony Arpeggiator Effects..
The limitation of the integra for live use is its limitation of only 64 studio sets.. Jupiter has 512 full registrations.. and 2500 live sets.. a studio set replaces both of these You can compare the integra more with a racked version of a Fantom G(sound part)
The strength of the Jupiter 80 is the layers and splits, which are incredible flexible The jupiter 80 is the ultimate live instrument.. and Rolands founders dream come true However due to its totally new format it was hugely misunderstood by most But Yamaha and the montage went partly the same road.. People addapted over time... and where the Jupiter wasnt popular at release. Its now more popular then ever in the live scene
A super natural synth sound can also contain 3 pcm partials.. So the pcm part is there in the jupiter 80
Imagine the Jupiter 80 as an arranger witouth styles.. You have 4 voices, that can be layered and split.. 2 of those voices are live sets, concisting of 4 sounds 1 voice is manuall percussion/manual bass 1 voice is the solo voice (top right) The engine treats all of these voices different.. Even the left and right parts.. as the left part for example has chord detection Where the right part has the harmonies based on them as we know from the arrangers
The sounds are all super natural.. Super natural is an engine that combines sampling with physical modulation and behaviour moddeling Where some people indicate that it has no pcm samples, they are wrong.. Most of the samples of the integra pcm engine are also in the jupiter, and being used in the super natural engine..
So the livesets are what makes this instrument so special.. Because with a single button press you can change livesets on the fly Or change entire registrations.. The jupiter is designed as a tool to make music
Your fantom G is designed as kind of a daw with a keyboard attached.. Actually the only thing missing on the jupiter 80 from an arranger players point of view is arranger styles and multipads..
I will check later tonight if i can find a video that explains the jupiter 80
Edited by Bachus (10/24/1910:11 AM)
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Bachus
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Originally Posted By Crossover
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
But that's exactly what the Jupiter 80 does NOT have: the complete SRX library. None of it. That's why it wouldn't be so appealing to me.
Its a typical Roland product, all great Roland products have abandoned the past, and stepped on new roads... in the past, it often made me kind of sad... like the new `fantom abandoning hte super natural sounds as well as the ACB technollogie
Just read my post above, where i try to explain what sets the Jupiter 80 apart from the rest..
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Bachus
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These 3 short video’s explain the ease of use in a live situation..or at the home when just playing music... they are quite short... total length of all 3 together is less then 5 minutes..
The other video’s give some depth about how tones and live sets are build..
And here some video’s showing how to use this technollogy.. Only for the diehards, as they are a bit longer And the first 2 are in German, but pretty self explanatory
And finally Ed Diazz explaining the Jupiter 80
I think this sums it up nicely..
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#478764 - 10/24/1910:52 AMRe: Roland..sound...
[Re: Fran Carango]
Bachus
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Bachus I believe the Integra7 was on the design table first, even if the Jupiters hit the streets first..
Even though as you said the Integra7 has 64 studio sets at a time, you can load directly from the flash memory as many as you need.
The Integra7 is designed to use with a computer, as an audio and midi interface. It also has the editor as a VST for your DAW.
The Jupiter has the controls you mention, it is designed as a performance keyboard.
The apparent problem with both units could be polyphony, but there is no need to burden the instruments to get great results.
We might never know.. which one Roland designed first..
But the difference is clear.. One designed for studio use.. The other designed to play music live..
The polyphony on the Jp80 is 256, double that of an integra.. Its also limited to 10 voices... so probably way less of a problem.. Espescially when you also take into account that live playing is much less stressing then sequencng for example orchestral tracks..
Altough.. with 10 voices layered.. each having 3 active partials.. and some using the sustain function.. so thats 30 voices/note played, i guess you run out of polyphony pretty fast on any instrument..
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Bachus, just curious. I don't follow these things too closely but I have a barely used (bought new) Fantom G7 with all the upgrades and was wondering what the difference was between it and the Jupiter. I must admit I never really explored the Fantom G7 in depth but always thought it had a lot of features. How would IT have fit the role you have planned for the Jupiter?
chas
Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
Actually its the other way around... The Jupiter is the super natural instrument The integra inherrited some of that DNA, and much more..
But the Jupiter 80’s engine has more depth in : Live sets.. Harmony Arpeggiator Effects..
The limitation of the integra for live use is its limitation of only 64 studio sets.. Jupiter has 512 full registrations.. and 2500 live sets.. a studio set replaces both of these You can compare the integra more with a racked version of a Fantom G(sound part)
The strength of the Jupiter 80 is the layers and splits, which are incredible flexible The jupiter 80 is the ultimate live instrument.. and Rolands founders dream come true However due to its totally new format it was hugely misunderstood by most But Yamaha and the montage went partly the same road.. People addapted over time... and where the Jupiter wasnt popular at release. Its now more popular then ever in the live scene
A super natural synth sound can also contain 3 pcm partials.. So the pcm part is there in the jupiter 80
Imagine the Jupiter 80 as an arranger witouth styles.. You have 4 voices, that can be layered and split.. 2 of those voices are live sets, concisting of 4 sounds 1 voice is manuall percussion/manual bass 1 voice is the solo voice (top right) The engine treats all of these voices different.. Even the left and right parts.. as the left part for example has chord detection Where the right part has the harmonies based on them as we know from the arrangers
The sounds are all super natural.. Super natural is an engine that combines sampling with physical modulation and behaviour moddeling Where some people indicate that it has no pcm samples, they are wrong.. Most of the samples of the integra pcm engine are also in the jupiter, and being used in the super natural engine..
So the livesets are what makes this instrument so special.. Because with a single button press you can change livesets on the fly Or change entire registrations.. The jupiter is designed as a tool to make music
Your fantom G is designed as kind of a daw with a keyboard attached.. Actually the only thing missing on the jupiter 80 from an arranger players point of view is arranger styles and multipads..
I will check later tonight if i can find a video that explains the jupiter 80
If the Jupiter 80 covers everything Roland-wise you wish for, I‘m happy for you. But for somebody who likes the symphonic samples of violin, viola and celli sections of the SRX 04 and the symphonic C-trumpets and French horn sections of the SRX 10, the Jupiter 80 is a disappointment because it just doesn‘t have these sounds and nothing comparable among the SN-A sounds. The SN-A department just doesn‘t cover everything, and some of the SN-A tones sound disappointing, e.g. saxophones. I remember tunes where I used an SN-A tenor sax disliked by the audience, then swapped it with a MOXF tenor sax, which was appreciated much more. We have talked about the vibrato of SN-A tones, too, it often sounds artificial, as it‘s no sampled vibrato. Some things like the automatic slides (trumpet etc.) are nice, but all in all, SN-A is not the eye opener in terms of realism...
Bachus
Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Crossover
Originally Posted By Bachus
Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Originally Posted By cgiles
Bachus, just curious. I don't follow these things too closely but I have a barely used (bought new) Fantom G7 with all the upgrades and was wondering what the difference was between it and the Jupiter. I must admit I never really explored the Fantom G7 in depth but always thought it had a lot of features. How would IT have fit the role you have planned for the Jupiter?
chas
Chas, the G7 is a workstation (very good one), with sequencer, audio and midi recording and sampling,.
The Jupiter 80 is a performance instrument (also very good) with NO sequencing or sampling. The sound engine is based on the Integra7.. with the Integra7 having the edge in complete sound library (includes all of the SRX expansion sounds..).
Actually its the other way around... The Jupiter is the super natural instrument The integra inherrited some of that DNA, and much more..
But the Jupiter 80’s engine has more depth in : Live sets.. Harmony Arpeggiator Effects..
The limitation of the integra for live use is its limitation of only 64 studio sets.. Jupiter has 512 full registrations.. and 2500 live sets.. a studio set replaces both of these You can compare the integra more with a racked version of a Fantom G(sound part)
The strength of the Jupiter 80 is the layers and splits, which are incredible flexible The jupiter 80 is the ultimate live instrument.. and Rolands founders dream come true However due to its totally new format it was hugely misunderstood by most But Yamaha and the montage went partly the same road.. People addapted over time... and where the Jupiter wasnt popular at release. Its now more popular then ever in the live scene
A super natural synth sound can also contain 3 pcm partials.. So the pcm part is there in the jupiter 80
Imagine the Jupiter 80 as an arranger witouth styles.. You have 4 voices, that can be layered and split.. 2 of those voices are live sets, concisting of 4 sounds 1 voice is manuall percussion/manual bass 1 voice is the solo voice (top right) The engine treats all of these voices different.. Even the left and right parts.. as the left part for example has chord detection Where the right part has the harmonies based on them as we know from the arrangers
The sounds are all super natural.. Super natural is an engine that combines sampling with physical modulation and behaviour moddeling Where some people indicate that it has no pcm samples, they are wrong.. Most of the samples of the integra pcm engine are also in the jupiter, and being used in the super natural engine..
So the livesets are what makes this instrument so special.. Because with a single button press you can change livesets on the fly Or change entire registrations.. The jupiter is designed as a tool to make music
Your fantom G is designed as kind of a daw with a keyboard attached.. Actually the only thing missing on the jupiter 80 from an arranger players point of view is arranger styles and multipads..
I will check later tonight if i can find a video that explains the jupiter 80
If the Jupiter 80 covers everything Roland-wise you wish for, I‘m happy for you. But for somebody who likes the symphonic samples of violin, viola and celli sections of the SRX 04 and the symphonic C-trumpets and French horn sections of the SRX 10, the Jupiter 80 is a disappointment because it just doesn‘t have these sounds and nothing comparable among the SN-A sounds.
To each their own.. I can see how in a studio environment other things become important..
The big advantage of the integra 7 is that it will probably never grow old As it indeed holds all things Roland since the d50.. Its a superb collection of sounds..
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cgiles
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Still just a matter of personal needs and tastes though. I have to agree that "great instruments never grow old". I still love some of the (performance) sets from my ancient Triton Classic; even my equally ancient Motif ES. I still prefer the dedicated instruments such as my Crumar SEVEN, but that's not a fair comparison.
chas
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Some of the SRX sounds such as the brass and string boards were absolutely excellent in the early 2000s, they were used by Madonna‘s band on stage etc. Unfortunately, Roland abandoned new sampling sessions. As I know from members of a German forum, the original sampling data of many SRX sounds used to be sold in much better quality and larger sample sizes on CD-ROMs under the Spectrasonic label (Eric Persing) in the late 1990s, so technically one could make them available in larger sample sizes for the new Fantom. I guess it‘s a license issue they don‘t do it.
Bachus
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Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By cgiles
Still just a matter of personal needs and tastes though. I have to agree that "great instruments never grow old". I still love some of the (performance) sets from my ancient Triton Classic; even my equally ancient Motif ES. I still prefer the dedicated instruments such as my Crumar SEVEN, but that's not a fair comparison.
chas
I can understand your love for the Crumar.. GSI makes incredible instruments..
My Gemini is near perfect with its 15 engines.. However not fun to edit, and limited to 128 presets.. The new Vienna piano is also a huge step up..
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Bachus
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Originally Posted By Crossover
Some of the SRX sounds such as the brass and string boards were absolutely excellent in the early 2000s, they were used by Madonna‘s band on stage etc. Unfortunately, Roland abandoned new sampling sessions. As I know from members of a German forum, the original sampling data of many SRX sounds used to be sold in much better quality and larger sample sizes on CD-ROMs under the Spectrasonic label (Eric Persing) in the late 1990s, so technically one could make them available in larger sample sizes for the new Fantom. I guess it‘s a license issue they don‘t do it.
Roland allways was great in recognisable iconic sounds.. And Eric indeed has a golden touch where it comes to sound..
Did you ever get your hands on the keyscape library? Such incredible high quallity sampling ..
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Roland allways was great in recognisable iconic sounds.. And Eric indeed has a golden touch where it comes to sound..
Did you ever get your hands on the keyscape library? Such incredible high quallity sampling ..
No, I have still beaten about the bush (eromheen draaien als de kat om de hete brij - same metaphor as in German) with software libraries so far. I have installed Garritan BigBand, but haven't found or taken the time to really use it. For symphonic sounds I have been using iSymphonic for iPad together with the MODX sounds, which is quite a good level already.
Bachus
Senior Member
Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
Originally Posted By Crossover
Originally Posted By Bachus
Roland allways was great in recognisable iconic sounds.. And Eric indeed has a golden touch where it comes to sound..
Did you ever get your hands on the keyscape library? Such incredible high quallity sampling ..
No, I have still beaten about the bush (eromheen draaien als de kat om de hete brij - same metaphor as in German) with software libraries so far. I have installed Garritan BigBand, but haven't found or taken the time to really use it. For symphonic sounds I have been using iSymphonic for iPad together with the MODX sounds, which is quite a good level already.
The isymphonic comes from Kurt Adler.. He is using the same samples in isymphonic as for his kronos, montage and genos expansion packs... espescially his orchestral library for the Kronos is huge(and expensive)
His sounds for the ipad are a steal compared to his expansion packs for hardware.. Isymphonic is one of those apps that make the ipad brilliant to have..
By the way, if you want a good piano sound on the ipad, get the ravensworth, its about €20 and i love it.. and then combine with the strings of the isymphonic librarie
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Bachus
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One more video Only single sounds in this video Of which you can layer and split up to 10 Make sure to check the theatre organ sounds from 12:30 t0 14:00
Edited by Bachus (10/25/1902:46 PM)
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Bachus
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Its been a week.. Love the Roland sounds..
But it jade me realise one thing.. The fat lushy character of the Roland sound is hard to mix with the Yamaha styles.. Its often totally overpowering the soundspectrum.. Turning a whole yamaha style into background noise There is only so much you can do with volume..
Often I have to use some form of compressor/eq/filter to put the Roland sounds into their place in the mix Or just mute some tracks on the Genos styles..
Also the Yamaha sounds seem to be more accurate where it comes to acoustic instrument emulations However the Super batural sounds are more enjoyable to play, and somehow offer more depth,,
The super natural piano is great.. The organs in the JP80 are brilliant Espescially the theatre organs...
Another important thing.. where yamaha boasts about their super knob on montage/modx The jp80 has 2 of them, one for left hand and one for the rightvhand live sets..
After a week, i am still convinced that ever arranger should have a set-up with 10 pannel voices like this.. Just the fact that a liveset for left and right hand is a savable item offers so much..
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From what Fran has stated...Roland is being pretty tight lipped about new products these days. We’ll all have to wait with baited breath. Although, I’ve taken the Yamaha bait and feel pretty darn good about it. JM
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