OK - I'm getting to know how to modify my vocal technique to accommodate Yamaha's vision of how vocals "should "sound, (grrrrr) so with that said: here's a quick, real time audio recording using the Skypop style, a nice Rhodes sound, and a simple harmonizer setting ... maybe the one Don Mason likes. (can't remember the one)
Feel free to comment - I'm a big boy, I know there's a few clunkers in it, but it's just a scratch recording. I had a few minutes before work, and felt inspired to share a few things. Enjoy! (or not)

I like the vocal sound a lot. Love the intro. The vocal harmony sounds really good.
I would be happy to sound like that. Lend me your voice and maybe I will.
Love the stereo panning.

Wow!! That was terrific, thanks for sharing.. Keep them coming.



Just filling in for Donny

Thanks for the early input guys.
Here's my views ... see if you agree.

1) drums are great - pattern really moves
2) rhodes is very good - not amazing, but very playable. I like the stereo vibrato
3) harmonies are a tad too loud (still need to fuss with that part of the instrument), maybe just use a simple third above for this song
4) general vocal settings are better than expected - clear, present - I like it. Lead voice might be too loud ... not sure yet.
5) aside from the few flubbed chords changes (this one is always slow to come back each year), I like the arrangement.
Reminds me of a version by Christina Aguilera, or Maria Carey. (one of those two)
6) overall pleased with the maiden voyage. Can't wait to take it to the winery next week.
7) it's nice that the audio recorder AUTO saves to your destination of choice.

Smart a** ... and you wonder why he kicked us out of his sandbox?

Thanks for sharing Dave.
That was great.
Even though I enjoy the vocals of many Synth Zoners, I think I like yours the best.
Psst. Keep that between us. OK?

Eric

Ok ... shhhhhh.... (thanks!)

Did I fake you out? Were you expecting the Eagles Christmas Song?

Dave, sorry I'm 'late to the dance', but here are my thoughts ...
1) Vocal - stellar, but I wouldn't expect anything less ...
2) Keys - Rhodes sound is very nice
3) Harmonies - I enjoyed the chord changes in the harmony, but did think it was a little too loud ...
4) Personally, being more of a traditionalist, I am not in love with that style for this song, but that's just me ... I'm going to listen a few more times, and maybe it will grow on me
Overall, the recording sounded very good ...
Thanks

Nice vocals , Rhodes, but not a fan of that Style or the deum sounds even though they were in the backround. Nice job for a quick one off.

LOL - I know that drum pattern is kind of outta left field, but it popped up, and I just hit "record". I generally perform this with a more laid back, jazzy kind of feel.

I for one liked the style, even though not being traditional.
I liked the out of the box thinking and playing.
Nothing wrong with putting a modern spin to it.
Gotta go with the times.
Keep it up UD ...
Eric

Hi Dave,
sounded great. Never heard any of your songs before.

Thought, no , he’s having us on, that voice sounds like it belongs to a 30 year old. Haha

Brilliant, hope we hear more.

Btw, would have thought strange choice of style for Xmas song, but it worked.

Thanks Rikki - wow, 30 yr old? Yikes. I have shirts older than that. re: the arrangement choice, I have a recording of this song done that way by one of the pop diva's from the 90s. I didn't come up with it on my own. I also have no idea what style Skypop is trying to emulate. Sounds like a Madonna disco track to me. lol

Dave, sounds great! Nice vocals with harmonizer as well. My only thought...crank those drums up. Really nice clear sound!
Mitch

I thought I'd do a quick explanation of how I had to "dumb down" my vocals to suit the VH2.
1st - it scoops very poorly, compared to other units, so I tried to stay in the grid for note chages.
2nd - it lacks dynamic range, (probably too much compression,) so I used less in my approach.
3rd - it doesn't punch in, and out as cleanly as my TC unity, so I engaged the harmony before the note was sung. This helps make it more believable.
I've said many times, using a harmonizer is an entirely different skill set for lead singing. You need to think like an ensemble, use less vibrato, vary the melody less, and in general ... do less. When you add 2 or three voices to your own, it can sound cluttered if you're not careful. There's also the added volume that the extra voices contribute, so you need to back off a bit to make a proper blend.

I'm going to tame this beast. It'll never be my go-to vocal unit, but no one will ever know I'm working so hard, IF I do my homework, and learn the workarounds.
Thanks again to all who listened.

Funny you should mention that Mitch ... my biggest complaint with arranger users is that the drums always seem too loud for my taste. I like a laid back, INSIDE the mix type drummer for most things. Give me Ringo over Phil Collins anyday.
(love them both, but as a vocalist - I'd rather sing with Ringo)
Thanks for your kind words!

Dave - Great job! Wow! Didn't realize you had such a great voice! Super job on the playing and the singing! It's nice to know the Yammie can provide such nice support to a vocal too! You're all ready to "Wow them" at the holiday parties already! Keep up the great work and thanks for the early Xmas surprise! Super performance!

PS - nice phrasing along the way too!

Fantastic job Dave, no complaints from me. You sure got the most out of the Yamaha harmony as well.

That was really cool. I wouldnt differ from your own evaluation re less comp and vh level..

Vocals sound great, and you show that the Harmonizer can sound quite good also! Unique style for the song ... makes for "something different"!

Nice job on the song . . .

-jim

That's one thing I enjoy about Christmas tunes, is hearing new arrangements of these classic songs. Lucky for us arranger keyboardist there are no shortage of great styles to make new and interesting arrangements like you so skillfully did!

Dave, your vocals were spot on, and pleasant to listen to, not cluttered with too much harmony that many over use.

I'm glad you found your Rhodes sound, I know you were concerned about that, and yea it's a great sound for sure.

The style was not what most would use, but I liked it too, not the same old Christmas genre we hear over and over, and yes now playing everywhere.

Where and When for the winery?

Larry, The Winery is the Crossing Vineyards in Washington Crossing PA.
https://www.crossingvineyards.com/
11/30/19
12/21/19
both shows are 1-5pm.
Thanks!

Thanks Randy! Like you, I'm a sax man. I think studying clarinet was the best thing I ever did to improve as a singer!

Thanks Paul!

Thanks Jim. The main vocal processor isn't awful, but the harmonizer is lacking in a few ways that make it less complementary to a more fluid singing style. You can definitely do a simple, Everly Bros type style with good results, but it'd be a nightmare to try Manhattan Transfer, or Four Freshman stuff. (and that's the sound I REALLY love!)

You're right Rich. Thanks!

Thanks Tracy. Like I said ... I intend to tame this beast! I can't make it a TC, but I can get everything I can out of it!

Back at ya, my friend! I wouldn't mind sounding like you either!

Nice job Dave. Harmonies came on strong. Got me in the Christmas spirit and reminded me that I need to start working on them! Thx for sharing!

Thanks Jim. I'm sure this piece is going to be a valuable asset to my arsenal. Yamaha learned a lot from making the Genos 2 years ago, and used some of that cool technology to make a smaller, more portable pice for those of us that will never want the big brother, due to size, and slilent slabbiness. I coined that term ... slabiness. Good word, right?

If the PA1000 was a better baby 4x, I'd still have mine, but since it fell short .... this little Baby G is the ticket.

Dave, I listened to your recording, the first thing that came was – this guy is a pro. I have always felt you did a good job, but this recording is outstanding. Your voice has a young quality, wish I had it. (smile)

I like how you kept the voice the man thing. The band was there, but it did not get in the way.

I played professionally for many, many years; first with guitar, then with keyboard. My voice was responsible for most of my success. Having that background, I have to say it’s the same for you and more.

Great voice great recording, nice, John C.

See Dave, John agrees.

John , I told Dave he had the voice of a 30 year old.

Plus one to all the positive comments made, nice work. I think John C said it best “this guy is a pro.”

Mega-dittos.

Gary

Maxi-dittos!

Thanks again for all the kind words. I'm humbled that so many of you like it. I received a PM from another member who brought up a great point for debate. His concern was this ... and I'll quote him:

[quote] "The problem with the vocal harmony, is that when you have not engaged the harmonies and your voice is IN BALANCE with all the rest of the instruments, the moment you activate the harmony function it becomes either a tad too loud or (if you take slightly more distance from the mike) your harmonies do not come thru properly.....).So far I have not come up with a good solution myself either, so if you find one make sure to let me know" [end quote]

I responded:

Harmonies can be approached from two viewpoints.
1) a vocal group, like Manhattan Transfer or 2) simple backgrounds to enhance a lead vocal, as needed for effect

*My approach is usually the first. I like to think of my "group" as all lead singers who blend together, like the strings of a guitar to form one, complex tonality.
No ONE voice is featured, rather, the entire group is an ensemble performing in harmony. It's a different concept from "background" harmony. My vision is more "up front" than background. There's much truth to your concern about volume, and in a perfect, environment, I'd remix this whole thing to have a different flavor. Some TC processors (like my VL-3) allow you to lower the lead when the harmony is engaged. to keep levels more consistent. In a more serious setting, like a studio recording, I'd be more mindful of my balance, but I'd do it with mic technique, and breath control. I'd use very little compression (if any), and I'd try to feature the harmonies as I'd imagine them coming from the MIlls Bros, or the Carpenters. That's the sound I'm after. I don't just want a generic 3rd above on the chorus, unless the song calls for that. Backing off the mic to lower the lead signal will also lower the strength of the harmonies, so you need to allow for that when setting up your vocal presets. Nothing is set in stone, and all the rules go out the window during a performance. Your ears are the main tools to use, and every song, in every room, at every show will be different. The important thing is to "listen" to yourself. Don Mason, and I record almost every show .... just to keep us honest. It's a great way to bring yourself back to reality after the adrenaline from performing a show wears off.

I thought his point about the harmonies pumping up the volume was a valid point for discussion, and ....... GO!

Well, in my initial 'critique' without any analysis, I stated that I thought the harmonies were too loud ...
Having heard some of your previous work, I know that when you do a 'Manhattan Transfer' type of vocal i.e. "A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square", all the harmony voices are 'up-front, as they should be and very well balanced ...

As for recording a performance, I have done that from time to time, and certainly see the value to it ... however, if recording direct from a KB out, or from a speaker out, that does not represent what the audience in the room is hearing. I would like to know what recording method you use to record a live performance, Dave ...
Thank you.

Hi UD,

Can you kindly write a comparison for VH quality of your Korg’s TC and Digitech Vocalist VR. I remember you posted a song with Digitech and it sounded better / more natural than Yamaha or TC.

Thanks Tony. Yes, in a more controlled situation, I would mix the harmonies down a bit, but as stated - that was a fast demo with no editing. Not sure when I'll be similarly inspired, and have the time, but hopefully soon.
I have a rack mounted SD/USB recorder hooked up to the main PA mixer at the restaurant, and it grabs the entire mix in stereo. Naturally, it's not accurate, because my acoustic vocals are very present in the small room, so the recorded value isa little less than perfect, but it serves a purpose for learning and critique.
here's what I use:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1005915-REG/vocopro_sdr_4000_dual_digital_usb_sd_audio.html/?ap=y&ap=y&smp=y&smp=y&lsft=BI%3A514&gclid=Cj0KCQiAq97uBRCwARIsADTziyaK7HpOrGgUaYP0NmAQR7bYx2tuSu2ofoMH0iuyJwgLcO0xXWySSo0aAmFEEALw_wcB

Jamman,


Sure thing. The Digitech VR was what I used when recording "A nightingale sang..." about 30 years ago. It was easy to use, followed my "scoops" well, and was surprisingly convincing when used tastefully.
The Ketron X1 had a very useable harmonizer, as you can hear in "She's no lady". That was a close second to the TC in my book.
The TC unit in the PA900 was featured on "The Prayer", and it is a simple 1 above harmony that tracked very well, and sounded cleaner to me than the VR.
The unit in the PA4x is even more powerful, and has more voices available.
In my guitar/trax rig I use a TC Voive-Live 3, and that is the best of them all. Perfect tracking, total control, and almost unlimited effects possibilities.

I find that harmonies sound best when separated (L&R) with the lead in the center. By "best" I mean they have more of a locational effect that adds to the realism.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/zoom-q8-hd-...g&gclsrc=ds

This is what I use for video/audio or audio (user's choice). The video quality is decent and I run directly from my Zed in stereo. Run an entire show on battery / sd. Easy editing software

Some of the best audio I ever recorded was from the Zoom Q2n ( I have the PRE 4k version)
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Q2n4K--zoom-q2n-4k-handy-video-recorder-with-xy-microphone

Thank you.

Just checked about VR. I believe it’s 20 years old product ( introduced in year 1999 or 2000). It lacks compression and EQ and has only reverb. But the sound is great!

I rarely use compression live, and reverb is all I use on my harmonies. I add delay on the lead for some styles, though, and you're right - the VR sounded very good in it's time.