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#481421 - 11/22/19 12:39 AM
Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox
[Re: Uncle Dave]
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
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Dave, I listened to your recording, the first thing that came was – this guy is a pro. I have always felt you did a good job, but this recording is outstanding. Your voice has a young quality, wish I had it. (smile)
I like how you kept the voice the man thing. The band was there, but it did not get in the way.
I played professionally for many, many years; first with guitar, then with keyboard. My voice was responsible for most of my success. Having that background, I have to say it’s the same for you and more. Great voice great recording, nice, John C.
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#481478 - 11/22/19 01:05 PM
Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox
[Re: Uncle Dave]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
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Thanks again for all the kind words. I'm humbled that so many of you like it. I received a PM from another member who brought up a great point for debate. His concern was this ... and I'll quote him:
[quote] "The problem with the vocal harmony, is that when you have not engaged the harmonies and your voice is IN BALANCE with all the rest of the instruments, the moment you activate the harmony function it becomes either a tad too loud or (if you take slightly more distance from the mike) your harmonies do not come thru properly.....).So far I have not come up with a good solution myself either, so if you find one make sure to let me know" [end quote]
I responded:
Harmonies can be approached from two viewpoints. 1) a vocal group, like Manhattan Transfer or 2) simple backgrounds to enhance a lead vocal, as needed for effect
*My approach is usually the first. I like to think of my "group" as all lead singers who blend together, like the strings of a guitar to form one, complex tonality. No ONE voice is featured, rather, the entire group is an ensemble performing in harmony. It's a different concept from "background" harmony. My vision is more "up front" than background. There's much truth to your concern about volume, and in a perfect, environment, I'd remix this whole thing to have a different flavor. Some TC processors (like my VL-3) allow you to lower the lead when the harmony is engaged. to keep levels more consistent. In a more serious setting, like a studio recording, I'd be more mindful of my balance, but I'd do it with mic technique, and breath control. I'd use very little compression (if any), and I'd try to feature the harmonies as I'd imagine them coming from the MIlls Bros, or the Carpenters. That's the sound I'm after. I don't just want a generic 3rd above on the chorus, unless the song calls for that. Backing off the mic to lower the lead signal will also lower the strength of the harmonies, so you need to allow for that when setting up your vocal presets. Nothing is set in stone, and all the rules go out the window during a performance. Your ears are the main tools to use, and every song, in every room, at every show will be different. The important thing is to "listen" to yourself. Don Mason, and I record almost every show .... just to keep us honest. It's a great way to bring yourself back to reality after the adrenaline from performing a show wears off.
I thought his point about the harmonies pumping up the volume was a valid point for discussion, and ....... GO!
_________________________
No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info
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#481486 - 11/22/19 01:44 PM
Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox
[Re: Uncle Dave]
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
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Well, in my initial 'critique' without any analysis, I stated that I thought the harmonies were too loud ... Having heard some of your previous work, I know that when you do a 'Manhattan Transfer' type of vocal i.e. "A Nightingale Sang In Berkeley Square", all the harmony voices are 'up-front, as they should be and very well balanced ...
As for recording a performance, I have done that from time to time, and certainly see the value to it ... however, if recording direct from a KB out, or from a speaker out, that does not represent what the audience in the room is hearing. I would like to know what recording method you use to record a live performance, Dave ... Thank you.
_________________________
t.
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#481491 - 11/22/19 02:32 PM
Re: 1st recording SX900 with harmony vox
[Re: Uncle Dave]
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Member
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
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I thought I'd do a quick explanation of how I had to "dumb down" my vocals to suit the VH2. 1st - it scoops very poorly, compared to other units, so I tried to stay in the grid for note chages. 2nd - it lacks dynamic range, (probably too much compression,) so I used less in my approach. 3rd - it doesn't punch in, and out as cleanly as my TC unity, so I engaged the harmony before the note was sung. This helps make it more believable. I've said many times, using a harmonizer is an entirely different skill set for lead singing. You need to think like an ensemble, use less vibrato, vary the melody less, and in general ... do less. When you add 2 or three voices to your own, it can sound cluttered if you're not careful. There's also the added volume that the extra voices contribute, so you need to back off a bit to make a proper blend.
I'm going to tame this beast. It'll never be my go-to vocal unit, but no one will ever know I'm working so hard, IF I do my homework, and learn the workarounds. Thanks again to all who listened. Hi UD, Can you kindly write a comparison for VH quality of your Korg’s TC and Digitech Vocalist VR. I remember you posted a song with Digitech and it sounded better / more natural than Yamaha or TC.
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