Thanks to everyone on this forum for your help and advice imputes on this subject.
Yesterday I purchased the psr9000 new at 1999.00 US with a 30 day return/refund in stock at a local dealer. The best offer for the PRO was 2733 shipped from a Mid US State.
I was able to do a side by side A B C comparison with the psr2000 and the PRO.
The contributing factor was the keyboard action. I did not want the stiff piano action as I have now been playing mostly keyboards and organs since 1970. I have a hard time playing the piano action for any length of time. I also found with the convenient octave shift button at the right end I don't really need the 76 key and all else is about the same except for the expansion slots I can live without and 16 megs of voices, also no problem.
Thanks to all that helped me on this project.
I am keeping my Technics KN6000 and they will coexist. I will continue to be an active moderator on this forum also as long as Nigel and you want me to be.
I, like Nigel, am really pleased with the growth of this forum and the quality of posts. I send my thanks to all of you for that
Best to all of you from,
Bebop

Bebop ..... may I be among the first to offer congratulations and best wishes on your new board ... I look forward to your posts telling us all about it, and comparing it to your kn6 ......
t.

Hi Bebop
Congratulation's on you new keyboard, have looked it up and it is very Impressive, just added it to my wish list, keep us posted.
Mike

Well, congrats adding a Yamaha. I guess that make you a "Yammie"?
Personally I have the SD1 as a high number on the whishlist to add as the second brand in keyboardrack ...... sometime in the future ....maybe...
GJ

Congratulations, am sure you will enjoy your PSR9000. I must confess that I took the Roland VA3 back after a week and got a VA7 instead. The whole purpose of a second keyboard for me was to get a lightweight one, now I have 2 heavy ones. I like the VA fine, it's very diff from the KN6000 which I still love, so they sorta complement each other.

Marilyn

I can think of no one who deseves this more than Bill ,except for maybe Me ...Congrats and also thanks for supplying the purchace price . I'll start saving my pennies ...er dollars now

Congratulations BEBOP! Just hope now that you are a 9000 owner, you won't neglect us Technics junkies! Enjoy your new instrument and let us know how it compares with your 6500!

Ted Rose

Tony, Mike, Thank you for those good words. This is a deep keyboard with a 215 page Manual that has it all so it is a slow but steep learning curve.
Gunner, I think I am a "Yammie Hopper" now as I keep hoping from the KN6 back to it to learn another new thing It is fun but frustrating
Marilyn I wondered if the VA3 would cut it for you. The guys at the store told me the VA7was a good seller and I might want to look at it but I had already decided on the 9000. I brought my top end headphones and played it in the store for 4 hours and then did a concert for all their customers.
Larry, thanks but wait and check out the 7000 before you decide. I may still get the 7000 also if Technics ever decides to give us our moneys worth once again and quit riding on their laurels.
Ted, I kept the kn6000 so I will continue to be here, The Good Lord and Nigel willing, to continue to serve all the great folks on this forum.
Best to all
Bebop

BeBop ..... I certainly hope you NEVER leave us technics-ians to fend for ourselves !!!
t.

I second Tony's hope that you, BEPOP never leave the forum. As I am not a Technics owner you can provide much better advice than me. Your 20 for 1 project has been a great success. And it is your input combined with all the Technics members' input that has help make this forum come to life after being so quiet for so long. I have sold instruments over the years but have always regretted it. Even though I'd be happy with their replacements there would be something about the keyboard or guitar I sold that I would never get back. So I decided to keep all my instruments when possible especially keyboards that lose value quickly and don't even return a substantial amount when sold. I think no matter how much you enjoy your new keyboard you will be glad you held onto your Technics keyboard.

Thank you EVERYONE
I am blessed to have so many good friends. My fondest regards to each and everyone of you members on this fine forum.
Bebop

NIGEL
I truly appreciate that vote of confidence. thank you for your kind words
I am keeping my KN6000. I might also buy the kn7000. I now have 10 keyboards in the studio once more. I did sell the KN3000 to a NUN Sister in Holyoke, Mass but only because she needed it worse then I did and it was so similiar to the KN6.
BEBOP

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BEBOP:
... I did sell the KN3000 to a NUN Sister in Holyoke, Mass but only because she needed it worse then I did and it was so similiar to the KN6.
QUOTE]

Bebop, do you by a accident mix up anything here, or do you really mean that the KN3000 and KN6000 is so similiar ????
GJ

Yes GJ, I found that the Kn6 duplicated about everything the kn3 did with one major difference. The hard drive in the kn3 was great and worked fine and installed in two minutes. I had thought at the time the hard drive for the K6 would be quick and easy also. Well, as most know it did not work and of course the tech manager did not either and the dealer was kind enough to accept return for full refund. I WILL have TWO hard drives on the Yamaha 9000. One inside and one on the scsi chain outside, as well as a zip drive and a CDRW drive, etc.
Incidently I got the the hard drive for the Kn3 from Helsinki for 75.00 delivered :-)The hard drive and tech manager for the KN6 was 800.00 for a 2 gig ? and DEAD ON ARRIVAL. I was told that one out of three for the kn6 were defective and returned. I also wonder if anyone other then our Guru's ever got the tech manager to work properly?
Incidently the hard drive for the 9000 is under 100.00 for 8 gig and all the software is already there for it.
Bebop

Bebop,
I think that if you look at the other brands, you'll see that new
models duplicate about everything from earlier models, and also add
and updates a lot of functions as well.
The similiarity between the PSR7000 and 9000 is huge too, does that
make the same conclutions that you use for Technics then?

Again, it's probably even more personal related than I could imagine,
because when I upgraded from KN3000 to KN5000, I've found quite a lot
of differences in many ways. It's easy to see just by comparing the
manuals, and the next step up to KN6 add even more.
I'm sorry about your HD and Techmanager trouble, and even that I'm not
a "Guru", the HD and software for my KN5 have never made any trouble
for me, it worked when I got it, and still do.

Yes, I know there has been (and probably still are) someone who have
problems regarding the KN6 HD's and Techmanager, and regarding the high
price level, most everyone will agree with you, but I also know people
who has/had big problems with the Yamaha HD's, (just look back into
some of the SZ posts), does that make all the users who get the HD's work
on Yamaha to "Guru's" as well?
I only whish when this matters is a topic, that the discussion would be
more fair, not only praised or banned in black and white regarding to the
very personal mood when we either being exited when we get any new
equipment, or something goes or went wrong.
GJ

I'd like to see you use a cdrw with the 9000 because it is entirely impossible....
And the idea of using a zip drive when you already have 2 hard drives is also quite amusing for anyone with any real experience of these things.

If the hard drive for your 6000 did not work I fail to see how you can state here that the techmanager failed to work, since without a working hard drive you have no way of knowing whether the techmanager worked or not.

Without any appreciation of how the techmanager worked you are attempting to compare a 6000 system with pc communication to 9000 one without, so this is also misleading.

I know its easy to get carried away with enthusiasm for a new toy but it is not neccessary to exagerate beyond the facts, thereby giving a false impression to other readers of the forum.

If you can't see that much difference between a kn3000 and kn6000 there must be any number of boards out there you can be satisfied with...

Hi Bebop

I must concur with Alec in regard to the hard drive. Wh-oh-why does everyone compare this to a hard drive like your pc or one similar to what is used on the Yamaha and other brands. This is not the same, never was and someday the message will get through for all
that continue to complain about the cost compared to a hard drive you buy at Best Buys
or Circuit City or your friendly computer store.

Lets have a contest, I'll use my hard drive with over 1500 midi files a zillion styles and sounds arranged by name, title, nummerical, directory, alphabet, custom load script, juke box. You use your $100.00 hard drive. By time you look up your song or style, have it loaded and ready to play I'll be playing my last song before my break. Oh yes I can also output any track or automatic part independently and adjust that sound in my mixer through my hard drive, plus alot of other neat stuff!!. Altho you may not use this hard drive in the same manner, please don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

It certainly was unfortunate that you received a defective unit - but stuff happens. Just for the record I hope you will enjoy your Yamaha 9000. Its always exciting to get new "stuff"

Of course you know that Technics keyboards
were never introduced as a pro keyboard and
were never and still not intended to compete with the pro line out there now.

I dont know how that title came about and people started comparing the Technics keyboard line to all the pro models out there

It was originally marketed as a addition for people who were into home organs and needed something to take along with them during their travels. This is one of the reasons
you will not find them in a Musician Friend
or Z sounds or MARS music. They have always
been promoted in the Piano Organ Retail stores and most likely will continue to be
marketed that way.

It just so happens that Technics always had great features and more and more professional players started using them and they became more accepted and as the home market grew in general so did the keyboard industry.

Technics being one of those that developed some neat features that were present in their home organ line.

There is a fine line developing on what is considered a "pro model" as compared to the home hobby market.

Its all a matter of I guess how you play and what you are looking for, and how you use the
instrument. All in all - there all good and have special features for everyone but you must compare apples to apples for praising
and negativity.

Regards,

Walt

Walt!
I wouldn't knock the speed of access in the prs9000 hard drive!

When I turn mine on it automactically loads 1250 midi songs in 5 Banks ...giving name of songs 10 to a Page in BIG PRINT, easy on the eyes (my midi's also have full lryics displayed and can be also be viewed on monitor or tv screen if i wish)

Also loaded on STARTUP 250 Direct Access styles from hard drive and 120 flash styles in addition to factory ones!

Also loaded on STARTUP 500 registrations (one touch settings) that call up songs by name ,or type 8 to a page.

And finally 500 database Songs ,that can be arranged by tempo,style,gender,ect!

So the speed is fast with the hard drive... so your speed comparsion is alittle off IMO!

Of course i can also load a directory of 250 sytles or midi's into a Bank in addition to STARTUP!

And on main screen I can control all volumes to parts,ect! And I have 4 outputs that can each play seperate parts, one speaker plays the bass, another drums,ect!
The mixing panel on prs9000 is very complete ... sounds like the technics is too!

Walt writes:
Lets have a contest, I'll use my hard drive with over 1500 midi files a zillion styles and sounds arranged by name, title, nummerical, directory, alphabet, custom load script, juke box. You use your $100.00 hard drive. By time you look up your song or style, have it loaded and ready to play I'll be playing my last song before my break. Oh yes I can also output any track or automatic part independently and adjust that sound in my mixer through my hard drive, plus alot of other neat stuff!!. Altho you may not use this hard drive in the same manner, please don't knock it if you haven't tried it.




[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-13-2002).]

I like to use this anology . Technics is a Toyota , a very nice car , while Yamaha is a Lexus ...an Automotive Masterpiece.

Trouble is I've got a Hyundai budget

Larry Hawk

[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 06-13-2002).]

Let's not digress into comparing cars! Don't you dare compare Technics to ToyMotor

Anyway, I'm very satisfied with my KN6000, but I do not have a hard disk and that was my next 'wish list' item. But with the KN7000 providing a 512Mb SD memory card and the promise of a better file manager, I've decided to wait and see how this board performs and sounds.

I haven't seen or heard a PSR9000, but I do know that my KN6000 is a great instrument. One of the most rewarding experiences I have had playing the keyboard was when I was playing before a small group (20-30 people) and looked up from my keyboard to see the MC staring at me wide-eyed and open mouthed (literally!). After the performance she was full of praise for my playing. The great thing with these top-end keyboards is that you don't only play, you also 'arrange', and draw on the talents of those who provide fantastic rhythms.

Mike

mike
Sounds like the technics is great instrument too... I was just commenting on Walt's Challenge!

I wish the Stores around me had the Technics too so I could play one ... just like you haven't seen the prs9000!

Although I still think 800 dollars for a 2 gig hard drive for the technics is VERY high ...compared to 100 dollars 8 gig hard drive for prs9000! Hopefully technics will realize this too and lower the price of it!

p.s. Yamaha wants 400 dollars for the 64 meg Sims Sample Memory ...but I bought it for 79 dollars at Staples! If you can only get it from Yamaha or Technics ...they got you over a barrel!

So it's probably the same with technics 2 gig hard drive! You guys can suggest how GREAT it is and it deserves to be 8 times more then regular priced ones... and if you believe it ... i'll sell you my 64 meg simms for 400 dollars! LOL



[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-13-2002).]

Again, I should whish the was the technical fact
who's being used when compare.
I agree that the pricelevel is far too high, but the
Yam and Tech compatible HD is quite different.
The HD equipment for Technics is also a "instrument
upgrade", it is i.e. supplied with additional four
output lines (KN5000), and make it possible to choose
to send bass, drums etc. to separate channels.
GJ

a small point to rgtaa - the technics drive is not 2 gig, which is all academic considering the number of songs it is possible to save anyway. And the price comparison is between a 6000 system with direct pc backup, restore, editing and communication, and a 9000 one without. Walt was not just talking about loading speed, but other features of use to a gigging musician.

This was my entire point about bebop misleading the forum. rgtaa gets the wrong impression from incorrect information and then launches into opinions based on that incorrect information.

I could describe what you can do on the hx6 you can't do on the 9000+hd, but there is no point, everyone buys what they personally are happy with.

All I'm saying is - let's keep it real, otherwise it's all bull****, like car analogies

Hey there
I don't know why everyone makes such a fuss about hard drives and memorys and intigrated coffe machines etc, my Kn6500 has wonderfull
sounds wonderfull built in rhythms and does every thing musical that I would ever need
I do not have a hsrd drive my only accessory's are a sustain pedal which I really need and a microphone for singing.

anything I download 20 for one disks styles etc I listen to than save on cd rom and put on to floppy when I need them after all we can only play 1 tune at a time .
all this hi tech stuff is useless without the musical skills we should maybe try and
remember what a keyboard is really for. Itis not just a midi file player and it ia only as good as the person playing it.
let's get back to music.
jan

technicsplayer!
I agree that we should keep it real!

Garbage in- Garbage out!

The only reason I wrote was to accept Walt's Challenge!

If you are knowledgeable of prs9000 then you yourself know what he wrote was "mis-leading".

I don't have a technics and plainly stated that and I would love to see one and play one!

In fact, the only reason I'm in this forum was because of the Topic name , "I did buy the Yamaha psr9000 and not the PRO" ... i usually just go to SynthZone home page and only read the days active posts! I own a prs9000 and topic seemed interesting to me, since I own one! But I found out it's in a Technics Forum and I guess we each LOVE our instruments! I didn't mean to BATTLE with you nice people!

I was just straightening out a mis-statement about prs9000 ... I know NOTHING about technics ... never played one ... but would LOVE to ... wish they were in my area so I could!



[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-14-2002).]

Hi rgtaa,

You missed the whole point of my message. I was not knocking the speed of the hard drive on the your psr 9000. For the record when I turn on my hard drive I get everything loaded
everywhere that is in my hard drive 1500 songs
in several areas along with styles etc. with
as many as I want on a page in big or small
print, with lyrics if I want along with many other features to numerous to explain in detail on the forum. The price of the HDSX6 is $595.00 and on special sales includes priority shipping. Again if you haven't tried it dont knock it and the Technics KN6000/6500 and the new Kn7000 is not a pro keyboard for comparison argrument against your pro 9000. Basically this message was for bebop and his dis-enchantment with the HDSX-6: The pit crews are ready : START YOUR ENGINES.

Walt

Walt!
I'm glad we both have a sense of humour about this!
Let the Race Begin!

I'm a Gamer! So I love challenge!

P.S. for the record you did give the speed challenge ... and my comments were mainly concerned with this comment!

Walt writes:
You use your $100.00 hard drive. By time you look up your song or style, have it loaded and ready to play I'll be playing my last song before my break


P.s.s. As a humorus side note ... you weren't pointing out BEBOP's age of 70 years being the cause of the delay in getting to the song or style ... are you? LOL
Laugh a little!

[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-14-2002).]

Ha ha ha.
You guys are neat.
I repeat, I appreciate you all. Thanks for sharing here.
Best to you all
Bebop

but you're not sharing the secret of cdrw with the 9000 with anyone else??

i guess a scii cdrw could be hooked up to prs9000 and the disk made from pc with new styles and midi's could be accessed by the prs9000 or loaded into the prs9000 hard drive! But I myself don't see how a recording from prs9000 to the cdrw could be made. Although I could be
uninformed myself.

I think BEBOP was simply refering to the ability to connect a scii device to prs9000 and mentioned some possiblities, cdrw,zip,hd,ect...

Once you have internal 8 gig hard drive ... if you wanted pc connection ... seems like some prs owners are going with usb connection ... so the pc can organize,edit,ect ...what's on the hard drive of the prs9000.... in effect the pc sees the prs9000 hard drive just like an extra hard drive on pc, with the same abilities to move, sort,ect!

The midi functions are still done using the pc host port or midi connectors.

For me, I would just take the hard drive out of the prs9000 and attach it to pc using notebook adapter ($7 part) ... since moving vast amounts of styles and midi's isn't something I need to do often!

For moving 100 or 300 midi's or styles ...using a few floopies is fine!
I loaded 250 cvp209 styles using floopies in about 15 minutes the other day.





[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-14-2002).]

Yes RGTAA you are correct. The cdrw can be hooked up to the 9000 scsi 2 but only to upload to the 9000 and not to record.
However, as progressive as Yamaha seems to be with their hi end boards it would not suprise me to see that possibility happen too.
The 3.1 upgrade from the 2.1 required 35 pages of manual addendum for all the NEW things the 9000 will now do. I continue to be amazed.
You may be interested to know that yesterday, Scott Yee was here with his hopped up psr 2000, along with Dreamer (Andrea from Italy) playing my new 9000 and me playing my KN6500. It was a great day of music and singing. We really got a great comparison of the three boards and I have to say they are all just terrific. Cliff Anderson from the GA forum was also here and he played my KN.
Scott is a tremendous performer. Andrea has great talent, and Cliff and I listened a lot and played as little as we could get by with. These boards all have their strength and weaknesses, just like the people that play them
PS the volume 8 of the 20 for 1 song project will be emailed for upload sometime today.
Best to all from Bebop

precisely, rgtta was correct in agreeing with me that your statement was entirely misleading.
Who talks of using cdrw to read cds? Cdrw is talked of only in the context of making cds, which is impossible with the 9000.

In order to helpfully advance your learning curve I can also say that there is no possibility whatsoever of Yamaha adding external cdrw capability to the 9000 in the future either, it would require a complete rebuild of the internal hardware and operating system from the ground up, so you will have to wait a very long time indeed to end up surprised by that possibility...

shall I carry on with the other inconsistent statements?

technicsplayer!
To be fair to BEBOP ... you are not a very good reader,(at least in reading BEBOP's note of yesterday)! He never said anything about recording from the Prs9000 onto cdrw! I was only offering my take on the matter because YOU TOOK offence with it. BEBOP's exact comment was:

BEBOP writes:
I WILL have TWO hard drives on the Yamaha 9000. One inside and one on the scsi chain outside, as well as a zip drive and a CDRW drive, etc.

P.S. So I think my note above more accuratly reflects what I believe he was referring to! Are you suppose to be the VOICE of TRUTH on this Technics Forum? If so, then be MAN enough to admit you might have read more into his comment then he did!
Gee, if I was gonna get a scii CDRW ... i would probably use it more then just in the prs9000 , but it would be nice I could attach it to prs9000 and it would then act as regular cd drive for prs9000 purpose!

If I was interested in scii ... I would probably get a scii cdrw myself before I would get a scii cd player! Wouldn't you?

I too was very excited about possiblities of prs9000 hook ups and bought the pc host cable, ect, ... but I'm too lasy to use it! LOL I just have fun making music on the prs9000 without hooking it up to cakewalk,Band in a box 11, sonar, finale 2002, ect... all programs I have but am just too Lazy to use! bummer!


BEBOP!
Sounds like you are having a Blast! Playing with your Arranger Buddies! I have gone to Scottyee's Page and listened to his music! VERY good stuff! I look forward to your midi of the event! ON Scottyee's Homepage he is playing a technics I believe ... sounded good! So, ... the musican does count ... to make these things sound good! LOL



[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-14-2002).]

Hello,
I can't help myself...but comparing the technics kn6000 to a Toyota.....I hate this one.
I hava a yamaha psr9000 pro and a technics kn6500 and they are Mercedes cars to me...no Toyota..no Suzuki...no Mitsubushi..

You can buy 4 Toyota's for one Lexus...but the kn6500 and the psr9000/9000 pro are almost the same price and same quality.

Of course ...it depends on what you like..but if you don't like these boards you're better off with a Casio.

I am selling my technics kn6500 with hdsx6 and hdtechmanager6000 in order to buy the kn7000....the main reason is the Usb interface.
It's a pitty the psr9000/9000pro doesn't have one...it has a scsi connection but this is so old fashion....

Alain

Alain!
You might want to check out the USB card that goes into the prs9000! It's 150 bucks (120 for the card and 30 for shipping)! Go to yahoo prs styles forum to find out more about it! Lots of folks there speak highly of it!

P.S. The other option is SCII because it is now so Dirt Cheap ... on yahoo prs styles forum people are saying they are picking up zip and cdrw's for 35 bucks... because the tech level is 2 years old! And places are dumping them! Check on other board to see what I'm referring to.





[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-14-2002).]

Quote Alec:
"Who talks of using cdrw to read cds? Cdrw is talked of
only in the context of making cds"

Maybe there is someone else who also should read more
carefully?
I agree in Alec's oservation here, what on earth do you
connect a CD-RW for if it was not for write into it?

Reading Bebop's posts, he talks big words about the Yam 9000
being so superior and being able to use CD-RW, so if you ask
me, he was making a point out that you could record CD's on
the Yam 9000 by connect a SCSI CD-RW.
That is how I think most readers would understand Bebops post.
If you want to read CD's, you use a SCSI CD, not a CD-RW.

According to the comment about Alec being the voice of truth,
well, since he have answered and solved more problems for people
here about the KN's and many other related topics than anyone,
maybe he is?
GJ

Ha, Ha, Ha, now I see the joke! - a wholly unconvincing attempt at desperate back pedaling...

After a series of posts trumpeting the amazing technical superiority of the 9000 bebop tells us it has a socket that can even accept a cd writer.

You go to a shop, and ask the sales man, 'what does that socket do?'. He answers, 'it's for a cd writer'. 'That's for me then' you say, putting your money down. When you get home, you discover that you can't write any cds.

When you complain the explanation is 'of course everybody knows that when you say you can use a cd writer, the last thing that you must expect to be able to do is actually write any cds... but you can read them!'


As far as scsi is concerned, I agree with you. It may be entirely possible to pick up some bargains, and good luck to you.

This is because, as Alain pointed out, scsi is an obsolete, outdated technology in this area, overtaken in performance, flexibilty and ease of use by USB2 and ieee1394 firewire, and thus no one will be making any equipment for it any more.

technicsplayer and Gunnar Jonny!

Orginally when this Scii CDRW discussion started BEBOP didn't mention prs9000 recording to cdrw... but yesterday BEBOP did add that he thought it might be a possibility that with new os upgrade ... who knows ... yamaha might put it in... since new OS upgrades added so many new things compared to when prs9000 came out!
But I doubt this myself, but , as he says , WHO KNOWS! And it showed he is aware that prs9000 at present doesn't record to cdrw.

Hey I'm glad the prs9000 is two years old, it orginally cost 4,000 dollars and Now 1,999 new (1,699 floor model)! And SCII is fast enough to load styles,midis ect into the prs9000! Better then floopies! And as with price drop of prs9000 ... so the price drop in SCII ... good deal!

How much does your KN6500 with hard drive thingie cost again?


In either case, I will now take leave of this Technics forum and go back to my other ones, since I already told you why I showed up here in the first place in my post yesterday.

Wish you guys the BEST! Maybe Technics will come to my town ... then I can join you as a Techie myself!




[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-15-2002).]

You have raised many points, mostly on entirely different subjects to those I raised, I have no arguments about them because everyone is free to have their own opinion. As I said everyone ends up with what they are personally happy with. I only object when opinions are voiced that in no way correspond to the known facts.

I am very familiar with 9000 and pro, but I know there are many other long standing members here who are not that familiar with them, and certainly would not be familiar with any inside chat on the psr styles forum, why should they be? I was not the only one to see the exageration here... I talked myself early on about the exitement of a new toy.

However you may look at it, the impression was quite clearly given, and all I have done is clarified something that otherwise other members would have taken as fact when it was not. Changing to flights of fancy about what might happen in the future just serves to deflect attention from the subject under discussion again, no-one was talking originally about what might happen in the future.

There are similar factual points to be made in other areas of this post, but let us leave that now. I just don't believe that leaving others with an inaccurate impression is the proper use of a forum, no matter how enthusiastic you may be.

I sincerely wish you the best too,

rgtaa, whoever you are, it's nice to see that you edited away
the comment about upset somebody in the original of your last
post.
The main issue for the posts/replies I've wrote about this
"hallelujah choir" regarding the Yam 9000, is only because of,
and as I have said several times, when compare different keyboards
or equipment, either do it fair and use facts, or state out loud
and clear that this is very personal views, whishes and meanings
regardless of anything else.
GJ

yeah!
I didn't think you guys were up yet!

i did edit alot! sorry!

P.S. AS I reposted my message after editing it... I saw your 2 posts! It's hard for me to see what I write in this tiny window!
I have to see it on the Board to find my mis-takes... then I edit! I need a bigger Monitor! LOL
It's been fun!

As A JOKE I give you permission to edit your 2 messages before this one!
Love you guys!
rgtaa

[This message has been edited by rgtaa (edited 06-15-2002).]

no editing required, and best wishes too...

Hi All,
I have very much enjoyed reading the various comments regarding the intial post from Bill re the Yamaha 9000 it certainly has took a wayward path obtaining some very iteresting comments on its way.

Being new to both the forum and Keyboards I am in no position to offer any consructive comments HOWEVER what I do look for on the Technics Forum is sound and proven help and advice for my proplems of today. As a beginer it is important to me that I am aware of What Is, rather than what may be.As regard comparisons between keyboards the important question must be, is this model right for me ,does it do what I want it to do, if the answer is yes, one has the best keyboard.
Regards to all
Gilbert

[This message has been edited by gilbert (edited 06-15-2002).]

In my humble opinion, you hit the nail straight on the head Gilbert.
That is very important regarding which keyboard or not, but it is nice to know about the technical facts as well


rgtaa, if you use i.e. MS Notepad or another text editor, then copy and paste it into the "reply-window" when ready, you'll have much more view and control.
Happy playing (and posting)
GJ

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rgtaa:

In either case, I will now take leave of this Technics forum and go back to my other ones, since I already told you why I showed up here in the first place in my post yesterday.

Wish you guys the BEST! Maybe Technics will come to my town ... then I can join you as a Techie myself!
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Hey
Has anybody noticed the lack of content & posts on the SZ Yamaha Discussion Forum.
I wonder why this is????

I am sorry for you that Technics are not available in your town.
As you have no profile, unfortunately I cannot second guess where you actually live so subsequently cannot advise you where you may have the pleasure in actually trying a Technics keyboard
Johnnie

Johnny,
The Yamaha people are mostly in the general arranger forum in the synthzone and their Yamaha forums are on Yahoo where all the songs and styles are available for downloads.
The Yamaha forum on the synth zone is pretty much unused as this Technics forum also was until we all moved over here from the technote forum
Bebop

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BEBOP:
The Yamaha forum on the synth zone is pretty much unused

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Bebop
Now there's challenge for you
Johnnie

rgtaa,
Thanks rgtaa. Yes, all the songs currently on my website were performed live on the KN5000 (not the latest keyboard model for sure).

I think it's IMPORTANT to emphasize that owning the very latest 'top of the line' keyboard with all the bells and whistles will 'not' necessarily make you sound better. Only improving your arranger keyboard playing skills can insure that. Keyboard dealers want you to think that the MORE $ you spend on a keyboard with more bells & whistles, the better you will sound. In truth, the only better sound (is for the dealer) when they get more change from your pocket and into theirs.

I must admit that I'm still very content with, and feel I'm producing my best 'inspired music' ever, on my inexpensive Yamaha PSR2000 (under $1,000 US dollars). The PSR2000 has NO hard drive, or any other mass storage device for that matter, but with the PSR2000's built in 'Music Finder' customizable database, and floppy system, I can quickly pull up any audience 'song request' from my over 460 song repetoire at a drop of a hat. I might even be willing to take on Walt Tenay's contest challenge of finding & loading a song on my PSR2000 vs KN5000 (with Techmanager). I think finding a song via the Yamaha Music Finder may be equally fast (or faster) than it took on my old KN5000 (with hard drive & TechManager. Believe it or not, I no longer miss not having a hard drive & associated TechManager software because the Yamaha Music Finder feature supports all of TechManager's critical search/sort capabilities (+ more) important to me, and is included in the KB (for free). I realize that having a large hard drive affords storing 1000's of styles, but I prefer working with fewer (yet better styles). I too had 100's if not thousands of styles on my KN5000 hardrive, but the fact of the matter was, I only really used a couple of dozen of them (in addition to the internal styles). Too many style options can easily become distracting. If you're a stamp (I mean style) collector, then fine, but I purchased an arranger KB to 'get right down' and make music. Yamaha's Music Finder also allows you to easily create song lists/medleys & custom searches. All of this power is INCLUDED in this under $1,000 street price KB. Sound incredible? Miracles do happen. I just wanted to POINT OUT that, as a pro gigging musician, the under $1,000 PSR2000 is meeting my needs quite nicely, at least until i can lay my eyes & fingers on the KN7000 - Scott

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http://scottyee.com

Scottyee!
Do us the honors of making some mp3's with your psr2000 and post on your site!
thanks!
rgtaa

How you feel about your prs2000 I feel about my prs9000! And that's what it's about! Hanging with Arranger Buddies! Whatever keyboard we pick! And it's ok to defend our choices!

Honestly! LOL

Scott, I am fascinated by your comments on the psr2000 Music Finder function. When you select a song from the Music Finder, I assume it is a keyboard setup for that particular song. Is that like loading a setup from disk on your KN5000 with panel memory setups, sound, and rhythm selection? I saw in another thread that there was a difference between the psr2000 and the 9000 re file content where the .ots file was a separate file for the 9000. That confuses me somewhat. I still have an open mind about what my next keyboard will be, although with USB interconnect to a laptop and SD memory, load times should be almost instant with the KN7000.

HI BOB,
MY short answer to let Scott answer in full.
ON my new 9000 the ots loads everything ready to play the song with 4 changes, like 2 verses, bridge and finale. It also has 4 variations for each of those changes. The post on the GA forum was referenced to zip files I downloaded from Yahoo. Those were for older instruments and didnt have the ots and the one for the 9000 was saved without the ots as it is a separate file. That is the extent of what I have learned so far.
OH yes, even the files I downloaded that don't have the ots, I can add it to the files and resave it for the speedy loading. Let Scott give you a complete answer.
Bebop

Hi Bob,

The PSR2000's Music Finder feature allows you to store a style, tempo, and associated variation (4) and OTS settings (instrument sound setups: Rt, layer, and left voices) for a given song. Unfortunately the Music Finder does not store a transposed key , but to get around this limiationa, I store the transpose setting (+1, etc) and key of the song, preceding the song's title, so you can easily manually change the transpose setting of a given song right before playing a song. The PSR2000 also has an OTS link button which allows you to change the variations and have the 4 OTS 'instrument setups' optionally automatically change when the variation changes as well. Another Yamaha PSR2000 feature which I wish my previous Technics KN5000 had, is the fill button(s) 'integrated' with the 4 main variation buttons. In other words there are NO separate fill buttons on the PSR2000. Instead, there is a separate 'auto fill'on/off button which can be activated, so when you select any of the 4 variation buttons, a fill will 'automatically' be triggered (if desired). Unfortunately,on the KN5000, the auto fill only works in descending/acsending variation order (1-2-3-4) or (4-3-2-1), while on the PSR keyboards, you can select any of the 4 variations (in any order) and the correct fill associated with the specific variation will precede the variation change.

Another powerful feature of the PSR2000's Music Finder is the ability to create an infinite number of search criteria fields. In addition to fields already included like song genre, tempo, style, I also created custom database search fields which include: song decade (30,40,60,70,80,90), senior gigs, wedding gigs, novelty, songs to memorize, top requested, etc. You can also perform MF database searches within searches to narrow down your song choices even more. Occasionally someone may request a tune I may not know that well, but using the Music Finder, I can quickly pull up a similar alternate song (same composer, cover artists, music era, etc) which may even please the customer more than the originally requested song. The Music Finder allows you to scroll & search alphabetically, by tempo, by genre, or beat. It never takes me more than 5-10 sec maximum to locate and load any given song in my 460+ Music Finder database.

Grant it, having a hard drive has an distinct advantage (huge storage capacity to store thousands of custom styles and registrations), but for a gigging musician who needs a flexible quick search & loading access to a large core repetoire using mostly internal styles and a some custom styles, the Music Finder is great. Insteading of collecting & organizing endless styles, I now prefer spending time focusing on polishing my 'live playing' (chops) and the performance aspect, over spending too much time organizing & tweaking styles. Afterall, the essence (soul) of arranger keyboard playing comes from what we play live, and hopefully not from the auto accomp parts. - Scott

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http://scottyee.com

it all depends how you use the keyboard. I rarely use presets, making the backings specifically for each song. So I need the equivalent of composer loads every time. The psr2000 is no good for me because the flash area is too small for many custom styles, so you are back to swapping floppies all the time. The 9000 is much better, but the flash there runs out of space fast. If you put simple piano styles in, you can just about fill it, but put more complex patterns, maybe more equivalent to the session styles or technics type styles and its soon full with only half or less of the spaces used. As far as I'm concerned, the more flash the better...

So a hard disk has been the only total convenience solution for me so far. It remains to be seen how good a flash card system is. The space on 64 or 128 MB (in a reasonable price range) should be fine for hundreds of custom type edited styles and songs, and hopefully the load time should be virtually instantaneous, with no spin up time etc.

I calculate for a 64 MB card somewhere in the region of 1100 to 1400 technics files of typical composer/panel/song makeup. Less than this if you do performance saves regardless, more than this if you selectively save.

So maybe for a reasonable amount of files, ie say a couple of hundred songs that you can actually remember how to play, a flash card may be fine, given that you can always buy another one. Of course the cost per MB compared to hard disk is another argument, but as always, you take the respective features into account too. We shall have to see...

Thank you Scott. I guess the Music Finder is sort of like having a cross reference to panel memory setups. I tend to agree that you don't need a large number of rhythm styles and that we tend to settle in on a few favorites. With those favorites in the machine and a versatile cross reference to variations in setup, you could play for hours without needing a disk load. And, I expect that for those people who need or want pre-sequenced songs and/or song specific styles it's a different story. They would need a disk load more often.

[This message has been edited by Bob Hendershot (edited 06-21-2002).]

HI BOB,
One thing I have learned about the 9000 is that when you do put a disc in it, it caches everything on it (40 styles on my discs) and then when I punch the button for one of those styles it is there to start playing instantly. You can change the 4 variations while playing and have the three beginnings, breaks, and endings and can change the instrument voices while playing. I can put in one floppy, load it (about a minute) and I can play all night and never load another.
I think this is amazing.
I now have all the KN5000 styles converted to 9000 styles so as you can see I now have what I always dreamed of having. All the features of the 9000 combined with all the styles of the kn5000. I am happy as a clam at high tide.
Bebop

BEBOP!
And when you get your hard drive loaded with roland,korg,solton,technics,yamaha styles,Multipads,platiumum Registrations, and 1,000's of karaki midi's, and samples, and all your own recordings ...you will be even happier!
I am!
rgtaa

P.S. Went the floppy route with my roland xp80 and it's so relaxing to know it's all there in my keyboard when I turn it on... loaded and ready to PLAY!

Wow RGTAA, I can hardly wait until I have all that done. I am glad I am only 70 and have time left to do it all, (hopefully).
Thanks for the great info post
Bebop