I don't quite understand all the recent posts...

Are we addicted to styles...
Try to "wean" away from styles...
Play only piano...
Play only organ...
You MUST have weighted keys for expression...
You can't play if you don't know how to play piano...
You can only express yourself if you turn off the styles...
Use Karaoke, Use Midi files, Use backing tracks...
Get a Synth, then try to make it do what an arranger does...?
Turn off everything and just play keys...
You're not a pro if you have speakers built in...

Doesn't bother me a bit if YOU use all these things, but I don't understand why there is such a constant putting down of arrangers.
I call BS. I'm gonna play arranger. I thought that's why we were here, because we like to play them and learn more about them.

+1 Don:

This is The General Arranger Forum! Well said!

Don
Some of those comments were mine so I'll respond. I'm not against Arrangers at all. I couldn't do the work I do without one. What "I" said was its nice to break away and just play piano. And BTW its keeps your technique and ears sharp so you can do more on the Arranger. And it does take a good bit of talent to sound good on a piano as opposed to and Arranger. The thing about on board speakers is only my opinion as I stated. I just don't like the look of a keyboard with them and they always sound terrible compard to a good sound system Exception being my FP90. Again thats just me I don't think anyone else cares or even notices.

I couldn't agree more Don, Just glad a respected professional like yourself has finally told it as it is.

I began on accordion at the age of 8, then at 15 learned to play the organ. So l can play bass pedals and left hand accomp. Like a few have said in previous posts l'm not adept at running up and down the keyboard with my left hand and stick to just full chords etc.

About 3 years ago l bought a new Tyros 5 as it was half price in a sale. l've since traded it for a Genos. I have added a lower keyboard and pedals. However by personal choice most times now l like to play using the accompaniment and styles.

l've never quite understood what the problem is in doing that and why some seem to look down on it. The way l see it, if you play an instrumental on piano or keyboard in a band with a drummer and maybe a rhythm guitarist etc you're using the drummer and guitarist as your backing the same as using a style on an arranger keyboard.

My all time favourite group is The Shadows. l love playing their numbers, but to get as close to the original drums etc l need to use a style specially made for whatever number l'm playing. The instrumental part is all my own playing. So cheating aside by using a midi file recorded with the full track, l've yet to hear any keyboard play the instrumental part of Apache all by itself. Maybe some will still look down their noses, but l still see myself as a musician.

I honestly don't remember who posted what, and it's perfectly o.k. to do so of course. I also break away and play guitar for myself. Never played piano, though I was a decent organ player.
I don't use the onboard speakers, but a couple of newer models may be adequate for use in a very small venue, like small nursing homes. They don't matter much one way or the other to me, and my audience can't see them anyway.
But I know you aren't saying you don't need talent to sound good on an arranger? I think we are confusing piano playing talent with arranger playing talent. They are totally different instruments. Yes, anyone can sit down and play one-finger chords and sound "good", but not really "good". So I understand where you are coming from. My background in organ, guitar, drums and trumpet certainly has translated to some degree to playing arrangers.
Instead of specific beefs, I'm referring more to the overall tone that seems to say arrangers are inferior...not real instruments. If a person THINKS they are inferior, then they ARE, to him.
My good friend DNJ starts a lot of this, but he just likes to stir things up. He is an arranger lover to the Nth degree, having owned 473 of them.
Other good friends, Russ and Chas, are not really arranger players and never claimed to be.
I can't touch what they do on their instruments, but I can hold my own with mine!
I'm already wishing I hadn't started this. It really doesn't matter...
Best to everyone. I love you all. Don't hate me, I cry easily these days.

And you play it very well Don!
Mitch

I'll respond as well. A forum, by definition, is "a place for discussion". There is no requirement that everyone be in total agreement with each other. I believe that I can be intrigued with high performance motorcycles and areobatic airplanes (to the point of wanting to discuss them on a forum) but I still don't want my son or grandkids to ride or fly one. Even forums where EVERYONE is an enthusiast, conflicting opinions will still arise. Fact is, it really makes for a more interesting forum. In the end, everything said is still just an opinion and as long as it's not targeting an individual person, what's the harm. We have to acknowledge that there IS a reason why arrangers are not that popular with the younger generation. If we're honest, we have to acknowledge that the reason a club owner will hire a OMB or DJ over a three piece band is ECONOMICS, as in most cases, the patrons would rather hear a live band. I don't think pointing out these things is necessarily 'arranger bashing', it's just reality. As for the built-in speaker thing, I'm 100% in the Bill Lewis camp, just doesn't look professional to me (that's just a personal thing).

I admit that as I've gotten older and less intrigued with 'gadgetry', my attraction to arrangers has diminished considerably but after 15+ years on the forum I still enjoy the forum and most of the people on it. The fact is, only about 50% of the forum posts involve arrangers anyway . Besides, who wants to live a cookie-cutter life.

chas

The best most versatile instrument I have played.. that is what an arranger is..

I have played great accordions, Decent pianos, Great organs, and best synths.. but the best of all "arranger keyboards"..

Don .. wipe those tears

Hi Don,
that is the beauty of the arranger , anyone who wants to learn to play an arranger probably can, whether it be single finger or full chords.
Still boils down to how good a musician a person is though and knowing what works.
The style to use, the arrangement, the parts to leave out, etc. that’s the difference between the pro’s and and some of us mere mortals. Not sure it’s something one can learn, tend to think you either got it, or you ain’t. Still doesn’t stop the ain’t’s from having a whole lot of fun.

Don’t cry, we all love you too. Haha

Make Arrangers Great Again!

Keep arrangers great!

Gary

Rikki, you've got such a great perspective on things. However I'm still trying to get over the image of you trying to take that piano demonstrator home; naughty, naughty . I think you've been exposed too long to the bad influences of the likes of DonM, Fran, Capt Russ, Uncle Dave, and a few other ne'er-do-wells .

chas (kidding as always)

I'm easy, I'd have gone home with her.

Haha,
Kinda worked, at least I got a piano that played itself.

Yep, you guys are a bad , bad, influence , sometimes think , did I really say that. Haha

Haa haa

Any and all my posts were intended to help the player be better equipped to play his arranger keyboard. Arrangers are fantastic, and they come with styles, nice.

I didn’t do nothin” wrong. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
This is a good place.

John C.

I could handle Your Earnings...I would even play My Kalimba! given to Me by My Sisters Daughter while visiting Her over Christmas break in Rock hill SC...Harold

What I like most about arrangers is I can play them both ways with accompaniment or without accompaniment, my choice depending on the situation.

I say enjoy what you have, learn to use what you have. If arranger keyboards give you enjoyment then that’s what it’s all about.

I love arrangers and think they are a lot of fun. However, learning to play piano will give you a much better understanding of music as a whole. Just my opinion.

Although my favorite is piano there is nothing like an arranger for entertaining an audience when you're playing solo.

My biggest regret: not having learned the piano as a child.
My natural laziness, my bad habits ... and my good ear guided me towards the arrangers.
Another big advantage tu use arrangers: independence! knowing, learning a song, choosing the sounds, the rendering depends only on me and I am always in tune with me, punctual, available, in a good mood, ...).
I do not know how to read a score, I am not a jazzman, but what I manage to produce satisfies me, satisfies other people ... and that is enough for me (apart from the regret for the lack of theory and of no lessons).

My goal is to able to perform at a much higher level on both piano and arranger keyboard. Maybe it would be better to focus on one, but I really enjoy playing both, but most of my practice time is spent on piano playing. Any pianist with a good understanding of chords will do fine on arranger keyboard.

Couldn't agree with you more there.

The thing for me is an Arranger player is a more adaptable player than say just a piano player or just as guitar player. Even though they may be great at what they do ( there are some on this forum who are just as well as arranger players).

But the Arranger player needs to adapt their keyboard style of playing to the main instrument they are leading with; not just the style or rhythm. They have to learn the nuances ( like in playing a guitar or other acoustic instrument) to make it believable, if they so choose to.

Ok, I love playing an acoustic piano, and electric bass or banjo and mandolin too, as they all have their place in music or in a band. But my keyboard can almost replace them all and do more as well.

Be proud at what you do cause it is your thing!

Allan

Couldn't agree more Don. I love my arranger and want nothing else.