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#487773 - 01/26/20 12:52 AM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Dnj]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By Dnj
I agree but as everyone well knows.... Today DJs have certainly Deluted live music for real musicians... And sadly it is getting worse regarding that.


DJs only hurt BAD, or lazy musicians. There’s room for almost any entertainer that’s willing to put in the work, as long as they do the job that’s offered. Here’s my recipe for success:
Don’t play jazz at a Parrot head bar, don’t play Al Jolson for millennials, and don’t ignore the audience ...
Stay fresh, play your strengths, exercise humility, work the room, and you’ll be just fine.
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#487775 - 01/26/20 02:02 AM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Uncle Dave]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.

Although I have just sold all of my gear and replaced it by the Ketron SD7 and a dated Korg PA50sd I would like to add my views on this subject. After all I have been playing arranger keyboards for thirty years now..........AT HOME..............
First of all someone pointed out here correctly that it is basically a very very small group of people who go out and entertain the audiences as a one-man band using an arranger keyboard. And this is even more the case in the USA than in Holland, Germany, UK, etc. where you can buy those keyboards on virtually every corner of the street by way of speaking.
Second with the arrival of karaoke and later on very decent backing tapes ( not to be confused with cheap karaoke) many former arranger entertainers who used their arrangers as a band backing up their singing have called it quits. Cause as Abacus here mentioned folks are not impressed by someone pushing a few keys and knobs, but "it helps if their are two keyboards on top of one another " to impress the audiences.
The use of arranger keyboards in bands is in fact superfluous. With the odd exception all of that can also be done and at times even better by using a workstation , notably things like the Montage or Kronos. ( which you will see in professional bands !!)
But perhaps the most important reason why arranger keyboard players are a dying breed is the fact that the audiences want to be entertained and they want to recognise the songs that are on offer. Hence the plethoria of songstyles for Yamaha arrangers and , though less for Korg and Ketrons.....
Songstyles make the player "lazy " and do not invite them to be creative and ARRANGE stuff on their arranger keyboards other than selecting the songstyles, marginally tweaking a few things like volume, reverb ,etc. and creating a suitable righthand sound to go with the style. Mind you that is all that is needed to entertain the crowds, cause they will sing,dance,drink, swear etc. no matter what you play as long as they recognise the song and can sing along.
In a way my health issues over the last 30 years have been a slight blessing in disguise in that I did not have to please an audience and was thus able to take all the time in the world to do what those boards were originally designed for that is to ARRANGE. And having only one or two hundred generic styles on the first generation of arranger keyboards you had to be much more creative and the songs were less predictable....
So we are left with a dying breed of singing arranger performers and ( a slightly larger) group of instrumentalist arranger performers, basically performing to 65+ audiences.
There is nothing wrong with that but it does explain why manufacturers are growing weary of introducing yet another "blow your mind " Top of the Line " arranger keyboard. And it also explains why more and more singers fall back on either the real mcCoy that is a real band or choose to be backed up by the cheapest and most portable solution: decent backing tapes....
All of those will not or not longer frequently consult this forum it would appear.....

regards
John

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#487788 - 01/26/20 08:48 AM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Uncle Dave]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Dnj
I agree but as everyone well knows.... Today DJs have certainly Deluted live music for real musicians... And sadly it is getting worse regarding that.


DJs only hurt BAD, or lazy musicians. There’s room for almost any entertainer that’s willing to put in the work, as long as they do the job that’s offered. Here’s my recipe for success:
Don’t play jazz at a Parrot head bar, don’t play Al Jolson for millennials, and don’t ignore the audience ...
Stay fresh, play your strengths, exercise humility, work the room, and you’ll be just fine.


+1

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#487800 - 01/26/20 09:47 AM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Dnj]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
I was pleasantly surprised,,,,the show last night was excellent, AND the mix was such that the keyboard player was heard nicely.
He has 2 stacked Korg Trition a 88 and a 76. I do like a lot of the oldies as seems the drums and guitars don't always overpower the mix.
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Lee S.

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#487827 - 01/26/20 03:35 PM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Uncle Dave]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Dnj
I agree but as everyone well knows.... Today DJs have certainly Deluted live music for real musicians... And sadly it is getting worse regarding that.


DJs only hurt BAD, or lazy musicians. There’s room for almost any entertainer that’s willing to put in the work, as long as they do the job that’s offered. Here’s my recipe for success:
Don’t play jazz at a Parrot head bar, don’t play Al Jolson for millennials, and don’t ignore the audience ...
Stay fresh, play your strengths, exercise humility, work the room, and you’ll be just fine.


DJ's have the advantage of being able to go in as one piece and covering a big job like a Wedding at a lower cost. Even thought its grown to a point where they are charging as much as bands by bringing light shows,video screens, and "Party Motivators " Yecch !!1 Thats what blew the bands out of the water. also cheap entertainment for bars etc.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#487829 - 01/26/20 03:39 PM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2447
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Originally Posted By Dnj
People
Other musicians,...The public in general, just don't comprehend
what an arranger keyboard does? What they can do musically, creatively, etc, ...Why why why? and when does the ignorance change
vs a synth or workstation, or when are they both merged into one cohesive workstation? What is going on here as time goes by? confused1


I try to take the attenton off the keybaord and entertain with singing and interaction. I drape a black cover oveer the front of my setup to hide the keyboard. I also do very little button pushing and have stripped down my Arrangements so there's not too much "fake stuff" going on. As we've all learned, people don't care where the music comes from as long as its good.
_________________________
Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#487845 - 01/26/20 05:18 PM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Dnj
I agree but as everyone well knows.... Today DJs have certainly Deluted live music for real musicians... And sadly it is getting worse regarding that.


DJs only hurt BAD, or lazy musicians. There’s room for almost any entertainer that’s willing to put in the work, as long as they do the job that’s offered. Here’s my recipe for success:
Don’t play jazz at a Parrot head bar, don’t play Al Jolson for millennials, and don’t ignore the audience ...
Stay fresh, play your strengths, exercise humility, work the room, and you’ll be just fine.


DJ's have the advantage of being able to go in as one piece and covering a big job like a Wedding at a lower cost. Even thought its grown to a point where they are charging as much as bands by bringing light shows,video screens, and "Party Motivators " Yecch !!1 Thats what blew the bands out of the water. also cheap entertainment for bars etc.


Guess what? it's the trend that will not stop....... mad
hold on it's gonna be a rough ride..10 years or less from now it will be a whole new gig venue.. eek2

PLaying your music at home will be your only solace.


Edited by Dnj (01/26/20 05:18 PM)

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#487848 - 01/26/20 05:29 PM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Dnj]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I think really high class places, hotels, restaurants, high-end night clubs, high-end Country Clubs, Corporate affairs, etc., will ALWAYS hire 'live' players (solo pianists/combos/small and large bands) but that will reduce the working musician population to guys/gals that can actually play (just like now). IOW, if you are a professional-level player like, say Rory Hoffman, MACHINES WILL NOT REPLACE YOU! JMO, of course.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#487850 - 01/26/20 05:44 PM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: cgiles]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Yes chas but let's talk about the average Joe gigging around town.... Not someone who is semi famous that's agent contracted etc... Things are changing big time...

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#487854 - 01/26/20 05:55 PM Re: Why doesn't anyone understand Arrangers? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15576
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Originally Posted By Dnj
Originally Posted By Bill Lewis
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Originally Posted By Dnj
I agree but as everyone well knows.... Today DJs have certainly Deluted live music for real musicians... And sadly it is getting worse regarding that.


DJs only hurt BAD, or lazy musicians. There’s room for almost any entertainer that’s willing to put in the work, as long as they do the job that’s offered. Here’s my recipe for success:
Don’t play jazz at a Parrot head bar, don’t play Al Jolson for millennials, and don’t ignore the audience ...
Stay fresh, play your strengths, exercise humility, work the room, and you’ll be just fine.


DJ's have the advantage of being able to go in as one piece and covering a big job like a Wedding at a lower cost. Even thought its grown to a point where they are charging as much as bands by bringing light shows,video screens, and "Party Motivators " Yecch !!1 Thats what blew the bands out of the water. also cheap entertainment for bars etc.


Guess what? it's the trend that will not stop....... mad
hold on it's gonna be a rough ride..10 years or less from now it will be a whole new gig venue.. eek2

PLaying your music at home will be your only solace.


Hell. Donny, you have been making the same claim for more than 15 years, and guess what - nothing has changed - NOTHING!

And, 10 years from now no one on this forum will care - the vast majority will be dead. And, those that have not passed away will be reading the same BS "Keyboard players will soon be a thing of the past." Of course the person posting this will be the same person. wink

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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