People
Other musicians,...The public in general, just don't comprehend
what an arranger keyboard does? What they can do musically, creatively, etc, ...Why why why? and when does the ignorance change
vs a synth or workstation, or when are they both merged into one cohesive workstation? What is going on here as time goes by?

The really smart people understand ... and they come here to share.

Couple of reasons.
1. Those that do know them think of them as home keyboards for home hobby players as this is how they are advertised, and what they were primarily designed for.
2. All the public see is someone either sitting or standing at a box pressing buttons and keys, and to them it is just a slightly more advanced version of Karaoke, however if you use 2 keyboards (On a stand or by the side) and use them both, it looks professional even though you are using them the same as just a single keyboard. (Looks and choreography is everything to the GP these days)
3. Don't worry about it (the number of professional arranger players is minuscule anyway) as your the one that is making the money.

Bill

I would say it is the same reason younger players ran from the Organ and bought a Arranger keyboard. Size and weight were a factor.

John C.

As always I would add profits come into play for manufacturers. merging an arranger and workstation synth together negates two separate profit incomes and two separate sides that use them individually.
Then there is the "CASIO" thought effect that will never go away in the minds of potential buyers and players as that an arranger is nothing more then a cheap Casio you see in a big box store that sounds like a toy for example your playing on stage with
a TOTL arranger, Genos, Pa4x etc,....
and some lady comes up and says to you ..
"Oh that a nice piano my grandson has one just like it" or
"Hey I saw them in Cosco on sale for $99.00 and I have a
coupon for one.
I think Bill nailed it on arrangers with the HOME KEYBOARD/OLD ORGAN mentality still lingering in the minds of many people. I hope one day it will change...sadly we probably won\t be around to see that.

...except Karaoke doesn't make mistakes like playing the wrong chord or hitting the 'fill' button too early or too late (which begs the question, which one is more 'advanced').



chas

Chas either way........
"WHERE IS ALL THAT MUSIC COMING FROM? THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON ON THE STAGE?? EXCUSE ME CAN I MAKE A REQUEST?
DOES THAT THING HAVE SWEET CAROLINE INSIDE THERE???

The "mis information" certainly was not helped by the old QVC and HSN spots where a guy came out with a keyboard that played itself... always at Xmas - the keys lit up and you just chased the keys that lit up and voila - you were an instant Liberace... ha ha. Tempo didn't matter either as long as you could follow the lighted keys. Sadly, with those products and video games like "Air Guitar", folks tend to not really think or care about what "might" be required to make the music sound good.

John, and cost....of course you were getting a nice wood cabinet!

They don't relate to arrangers because most bands don't use them...its a piano player at the keyboard, AND most of the time the guitars and drums drown them out (there are , of course exceptions, not many). I live in a 55+ community, we have a nice 1,000 seat theatre here and music entertainment at least twice a month. The groups that come here are mostly tribute bands and are OUTSTANDING...Out of all the bands I hear, the only time you really hear the kbd player is on occasional solos and , of course some on a few songs. Sometimes all night I never hear the kbd player. He's down in the mix somewhere. But a lot of times he is the band leader or music director.

The kbd players are not featured enough IMHO, and that is one reason people don't even know the value they add. They DO understand piano and that's what they hear and see on stage.

Tonight we go see a band called 'Brooklyn Bridge' and they are superb. It will be a treat and tickets were only $26 each.

[/quote]

Genos, Schmenos; I'm getting one of these babies and hitting the Nursing Home circuit right away. That baby will keep those wrinkled old toes a'tappin'. Wow, finally a keyboard that can match up to Fran's playing skills .

chas

I think maybe the question should be where can people professionally showcase what an Arranger Keyboard can do, it’s also about what style of music is being played. In the UK a lot of music shops have closed so for a lot the only option is to by without actually trying or watching videos on YouTube.

Chas awaiting your full honest review Hurry....
take pics and videos also..

I play a lot of instrumentals, along with singing. It helps add credibility when you're doing Tico Tico and some very busy songs. I think people recognize that - it also helps to not sit like a bump on the log while playing - use the audience.

Your ankles and feet will tell you when to sit and play..
or stand
There's a time for each..

[



Chas either way........
"WHERE IS ALL THAT MUSIC COMING FROM? THERE IS ONLY ONE PERSON ON THE STAGE?? EXCUSE ME CAN I MAKE A REQUEST?
DOES THAT THING HAVE SWEET CAROLINE INSIDE THERE??? [/quote]


I think we're on the same wavelength Donny. That was the exact point l was making in response to another thread started by Don M the other day, when l was talking about playing an instrumental like Apache. As much as some people want to dis arranger players, you still need to have a bit of talent to get a decent tune out of it

Russ

I agree but as everyone well knows.... Today DJs have certainly Deluted live music for real musicians... And sadly it is getting worse regarding that.

Guitar Centre actually sanctioned that video?

Can I get up off the floor from laughing now?

DJs only hurt BAD, or lazy musicians. There’s room for almost any entertainer that’s willing to put in the work, as long as they do the job that’s offered. Here’s my recipe for success:
Don’t play jazz at a Parrot head bar, don’t play Al Jolson for millennials, and don’t ignore the audience ...
Stay fresh, play your strengths, exercise humility, work the room, and you’ll be just fine.

Although I have just sold all of my gear and replaced it by the Ketron SD7 and a dated Korg PA50sd I would like to add my views on this subject. After all I have been playing arranger keyboards for thirty years now..........AT HOME..............
First of all someone pointed out here correctly that it is basically a very very small group of people who go out and entertain the audiences as a one-man band using an arranger keyboard. And this is even more the case in the USA than in Holland, Germany, UK, etc. where you can buy those keyboards on virtually every corner of the street by way of speaking.
Second with the arrival of karaoke and later on very decent backing tapes ( not to be confused with cheap karaoke) many former arranger entertainers who used their arrangers as a band backing up their singing have called it quits. Cause as Abacus here mentioned folks are not impressed by someone pushing a few keys and knobs, but "it helps if their are two keyboards on top of one another " to impress the audiences.
The use of arranger keyboards in bands is in fact superfluous. With the odd exception all of that can also be done and at times even better by using a workstation , notably things like the Montage or Kronos. ( which you will see in professional bands !!)
But perhaps the most important reason why arranger keyboard players are a dying breed is the fact that the audiences want to be entertained and they want to recognise the songs that are on offer. Hence the plethoria of songstyles for Yamaha arrangers and , though less for Korg and Ketrons.....
Songstyles make the player "lazy " and do not invite them to be creative and ARRANGE stuff on their arranger keyboards other than selecting the songstyles, marginally tweaking a few things like volume, reverb ,etc. and creating a suitable righthand sound to go with the style. Mind you that is all that is needed to entertain the crowds, cause they will sing,dance,drink, swear etc. no matter what you play as long as they recognise the song and can sing along.
In a way my health issues over the last 30 years have been a slight blessing in disguise in that I did not have to please an audience and was thus able to take all the time in the world to do what those boards were originally designed for that is to ARRANGE. And having only one or two hundred generic styles on the first generation of arranger keyboards you had to be much more creative and the songs were less predictable....
So we are left with a dying breed of singing arranger performers and ( a slightly larger) group of instrumentalist arranger performers, basically performing to 65+ audiences.
There is nothing wrong with that but it does explain why manufacturers are growing weary of introducing yet another "blow your mind " Top of the Line " arranger keyboard. And it also explains why more and more singers fall back on either the real mcCoy that is a real band or choose to be backed up by the cheapest and most portable solution: decent backing tapes....
All of those will not or not longer frequently consult this forum it would appear.....

regards
John

+1

Gary

I was pleasantly surprised,,,,the show last night was excellent, AND the mix was such that the keyboard player was heard nicely.
He has 2 stacked Korg Trition a 88 and a 76. I do like a lot of the oldies as seems the drums and guitars don't always overpower the mix.

DJ's have the advantage of being able to go in as one piece and covering a big job like a Wedding at a lower cost. Even thought its grown to a point where they are charging as much as bands by bringing light shows,video screens, and "Party Motivators " Yecch !!1 Thats what blew the bands out of the water. also cheap entertainment for bars etc.

I try to take the attenton off the keybaord and entertain with singing and interaction. I drape a black cover oveer the front of my setup to hide the keyboard. I also do very little button pushing and have stripped down my Arrangements so there's not too much "fake stuff" going on. As we've all learned, people don't care where the music comes from as long as its good.

Guess what? it's the trend that will not stop.......
hold on it's gonna be a rough ride..10 years or less from now it will be a whole new gig venue..

PLaying your music at home will be your only solace.

I think really high class places, hotels, restaurants, high-end night clubs, high-end Country Clubs, Corporate affairs, etc., will ALWAYS hire 'live' players (solo pianists/combos/small and large bands) but that will reduce the working musician population to guys/gals that can actually play (just like now). IOW, if you are a professional-level player like, say Rory Hoffman, MACHINES WILL NOT REPLACE YOU! JMO, of course.

chas

Yes chas but let's talk about the average Joe gigging around town.... Not someone who is semi famous that's agent contracted etc... Things are changing big time...

Hell. Donny, you have been making the same claim for more than 15 years, and guess what - nothing has changed - NOTHING!

And, 10 years from now no one on this forum will care - the vast majority will be dead. And, those that have not passed away will be reading the same BS "Keyboard players will soon be a thing of the past." Of course the person posting this will be the same person.

Gary