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#488211 - 01/31/20 12:47 PM
Re: O/T Instrument Modeling technology
[Re: salsaman]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
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I’ll be buying their sax VST soon. A friend has it and I’ve spent a lot of time using it in his home studio. It’s freaking amazing, and you have to experience this program for yourself. The breath controller takes some practice, but using a pedal is just butter! I’d love to have Swams entire collection, but it’s not cheap.
I think the industry is long overdue for this tech to become mainstream. Physical modeling has been around for quite a few years now, and it’s getting really good. A great example is IK Multimedia’s MODO Bass and MODO Drums. Plus a huge benefit is that physical modeling (when done correctly) is very CPU friendly, and they don’t require a massive sound library.
Applied Acoustic Systems (AAS) uses physical modeling too. It’s actually used exclusively on a few of their products, but they need to update the modeling. I have Strum Session, and while it’s good for backing guitar it’s not the most realistic in solo/keyboard mode.
Sqk
Edited by squeak_D (01/31/20 01:03 PM)
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.
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#488255 - 02/01/20 11:37 AM
Re: O/T Instrument Modeling technology
[Re: Torch]
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Member
Registered: 11/19/17
Posts: 596
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I remember discussions on that in other forums... At Musikerforum, some synth specialists thought Roland SuperNatural Acoustic sounds were indeed modeling, while Yamaha‘s SA2 voices were just based on „scripting“. Scripting is largely using various chunks of samples in flexible combinations depending on how tje sound is played on the keys. Modeling changes the actual waveform in real time. That‘s quite a difference.
If you think of how you can gradually (!) change the sound of a piano in the Integra with the sound character control (not like just changing how mellow or bright it is, but much more substantially), this is an indicator that there is real modeling involved. Bachus is correct in that when it comes to "Supernatural" Roland uses small samples and apply behavior modeling. Shall we call it a hybrid system? This reminds me of my B5 organ by a French company. They combine samples and some sort of physical modeling. The library is 1GB vs 4 MB of GSI VB3. For that matter, Roland's "Supernatural" VST libraries are only 200-400 MB if I remember correctly. If it was all sample based, it would have been 10-15 GB! Yes, but that’s no contradiction, I still think Yamaha‘s SA2 sounds are more based on samples than Roland SN-A sounds. Roland has never given any sample sizes for its SN-A collection, which again supports that modeling plays a big role. AFAIK, Yamaha does state WaveROM sizes for Tyros 5 and Genos, in which the SA2 voices are included. Another hint that it‘s more scripting than modeling... About using small samples for physical modeling: I think it‘s more a theoretical debate, actually I assume in one way or another sample data always flows into modeling of any acoustic instrument. GEM also stated that the RP-X piano module didn‘t use samples at all, but I‘m convinced that the modeling data has to be somehow derived from samples, otherwise the developers would have no idea how a waveform would have to be shaped to create a piano-like sound. It‘s just the question is it more rigid sample chunks put together or a very flexible modeling in which the waveform curve reacts totally flexibly, which would be real modeling. At least that‘s how I imagine his technology...
Edited by Crossover (02/01/20 11:44 AM)
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#488269 - 02/01/20 04:41 PM
Re: O/T Instrument Modeling technology
[Re: Crossover]
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Member
Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 770
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Yes, but that’s no contradiction, I still think Yamaha‘s SA2 sounds are more based on samples than Roland SN-A sounds. Roland has never given any sample sizes for its SN-A collection, which again supports that modeling plays a big role. AFAIK, Yamaha does state WaveROM sizes for Tyros 5 and Genos, in which the SA2 voices are included. Another hint that it‘s more scripting than modeling...
About using small samples for physical modeling: I think it‘s more a theoretical debate, actually I assume in one way or another sample data always flows into modeling of any acoustic instrument. GEM also stated that the RP-X piano module didn‘t use samples at all, but I‘m convinced that the modeling data has to be somehow derived from samples, otherwise the developers would have no idea how a waveform would have to be shaped to create a piano-like sound. It‘s just the question is it more rigid sample chunks put together or a very flexible modeling in which the waveform curve reacts totally flexibly, which would be real modeling. At least that‘s how I imagine his technology... OK. I am not familiar with Yamaha's SA2. I wonder how it is different from the VL70m.
_________________________
"You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free." John 8:32
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