I've been working on consolodating my Sounds and Styles on my BK9. KISS method. Somthing I've wondered about for awhile. EX> I really like the Supernatural PureVintage EP2 sound and want ot make it my goto EP for a number of Styles. However when I use it in different Styles it sounds different even with the same EQ and MFX settings. On some it will not respond at all to the EQ or MFX adjustments. The control sliders do nothing. I've got to be missing something simple. Any ideas ???

Supernatural sounds are behavior modeling and do not use the same parameters as PCM sounds.

If you view the Integra7 you can see the difference in edits.

I wouldn't use SuperNatural acoustic sounds as style parts, it's hard to control how they behave in preprogrammed styles, and they can easily create polyphony problems. I'd use them only for live parts.

Fran I have no idea what your talking about LOL !! Sometimes they respond to EQ and MFX and some Styles they don't . Looked up the Integra7, now I want one, 5000 Supernatural Sounds WOW !. I'm trying to simplify everything, getting very tired of programming. All I want to know is how to make them consistent across my Styles as some are very good. I took a hint from something you posted long ago about having your Rhythm Section the same so I tried to use the same Drum Set for all the Styles. Mostly worked with some editing.

Crossover I should of been clearer. I only use the Supernaturals for my RH solo live parts as you do, not in the actual sounds of the Style.

+1 on what Fran said

Thanks Donny but I still don't understand. Can the Supernatural Sounds be made to sound the same in different Styles ? Yes / No / I don't Know / Call Roland / buy a Yamaha ( no I won't )
Appreciate the responses but sorry for my confusion.

BIll...

Supernatural sounds are behavior modeling
and do not use the same parameters as PCM sounds.

Bill, i think what they're saying is, don't choose Supernatural sounds to revoice your styles, because the result is unpredictable. The BK-9 has TONS of sounds. I would find a basic one that comes close, and then use the style MFX and EQ to tweak it to what you want.

One of the challenges I encountered in programming my own Roland styles from scratch is the "Retrigger" behavior. Every other brand has an explicit parameter that will force the arranger to retrigger a note if the chord is changed during a sustained period in the original pattern. Roland doesn't have this parameter (or at least not one that is user accessible.)

Of course you can force a retrigger by using sync stop and sync start (style playback will end when you release the chord, and then restart at measure 1 beat 1.) But sometimes it's not desirable to stop all of the tracks. By experimenting around, Diki and I determined that a retrigger parameter is embedded in at least some of the sound patches. When I revoiced my homemade style with a different organ patch, it retriggered reliably. Weird. Other than trial-and-error, I still don't know in advance which patches will retrigger, and which won't.

One of these days I'm gonna get my hands on an E-A7 and really dig into the sound sample editing. It has much more control in this area than any other recent Roland arranger (Not sure about the VA-series.) I love the factory sounds on the BK-9, but I want to learn and experiment. Then I'll understand how Roland PCM sounds are built, and hopefully gain some insight.

Meanwhile I'm following this thread. Maybe Fran or another knowledgeable user will elaborate and enlighten us both!

Thanks TEDS but as I said, I'm not trying to put the SuperNatural sounds into the Styles but just use them for my RH UP1 & UP2 parts. I get that they are a different type of sound "Bit" but why they sometimes won't respond to EQ or MFX which are downstream in the signal path is the mystery.
I'll either have to live witht eh drawbacks or as you said find other suitable sounds to use. And yes there are many on the BK9

Indon’t see this...

In a style it will sound exactly the same each time you play the track
As there is no randomness in the behaviour..

I am a huge fan of Roland SN sounds..
I don’t see how using them in a style is wrong..
if the behaviour is not what you want, just change the midi data..

There are no other polyphony rules for SN sounds then for PCM sounds..

My jupiter 80 has 10 SN sounds for keyboard parts and full 256 part polyphony..
So no polyphony limitations for SN parts

I've read about frequent problems with polyphony, or timing, with SN-A sounds. Various Integra users experienced timing issues when using too many SN-A tracks in sequencer files. The processor cannot cope with too many SN-A sounds. The Jupiter was probably better equipped in this respect in view of its 256-voice polyphony, while Integra and BK-9 have 128-voice polyphony.

There were comments that the processor/ polyphony performance had glitches, I never experienced this on my Integra7. I midi from my G70 and played styles using the selected SN-A sounds, and they played properly. I don't believe the BK9 allows you to use any of the 22 SN sounds in anything but real time parts (No styles or SMF).

When I midi from G70 to I7 , styles use 8 parts, the SMF used 16 parts, without any noticeable issues.
Maybe the issues reported were PC problems associated with Integra7.

I will wait till summer to see if Roland comes out with a product that has the 256 Supernatural acoustic sounds and 1109 Supernatural synth sounds. (keyboard or module).

If not I will get another Integra 7.

Hate to bring it up again but last night I was ready to scream ! In my continued quest for simplicity in my Styles on my BK9 I put in a SN DP for my UP1 voice. Assigned a Phaser MFX to it and using the control slider it worked perfectly. Went to another Style, did the same thing and nothing, no effect ! Double checked every setting and they were the same as the first Style but the MFX wouldn't work

WHY !!!!

New theory... when you select the style it automatically applies a One-touch memory. And the One-touch memory has its own set of MFX settings? Is there a way you can use "Performance Hold" or set up some kind of lock in the Global menu so MFX doesn't change when you select a new style?

It could also be a software bug. Perhaps when you load a style that wasn't natively created by Roland on the BK-9, it is accidentally writing to a memory area that controls MFX?

I admit, I don't understand MFX very well, and I really haven't dug too deeply into the BK-9 since I got mine.

They plan to bring them all and more to the new Fantom (SNA)
They just added the first 40 in patch 1.50
The new Zen-core engine of the fantom is the next step for the SN synth engine
It also has the `v-piano engine..

Ted
Thanks for the thoughts. I look into it more and maybe just have to live with it or find a more compatible sound in the BK9 library. Theres others I like but wanted to use the best offered.

Bachus, I can't find info on the 40 SN-A sounds .. Do you have a list or link to info?

I found it.. Version 1.5.. some good enhancements..

It appears to only have 25 SN-A tones, and none of the popular piano , EP, Guitar, or organ tones (yet).. Maybe by summer , it will be more attractive to me

Check out this video..



It holds all the SNA sounds in 1.5
Also shows the editor for the sounds

This is supposed to be just the first batch
More comming.. espescially the organ and guitars will be very welcome
For piano and ep, there is the v-piano.. altough limited by 1 instrument at max in a setup