Thoughts about our source choices.

Styles,SMF's, MP3's, Karaoke files..

They are all available to us (todays keyboards).

Here are my thoughts (opinions) about their use..

Most arranger players prefer Style play. Easy to use, at whatever your skil level.
We can modify or even originate a style. Add your personal edits.

Many, I included prefer SMF's, they are more detailed and be edited as the style can.

Both styles and SMF's on my keyboard choice, can use "covers" to create interesting
results.

A recorded style (played) can be captured and it becomes a SMF.. I do this, and
add lyrics to the file.

I also add lyrics to a MP3 recorded on a keyboard.

My least favorite for live performance, the karaoke file (CDG).
For a quick polished sound to record your vocals...Yes it is ideal.

As a performance tool.. No, there is not a personal element and has none of your inflections
other than vocals. Half of the Die Hard karaoke players can sound just as pleasing,
and exactly like you..
No way to edit tracks or modify in dept. Keyboards (most) do not allow us to change a key,
more than a step or two.(artifacts), You can't add the harmonizer easily as we can with a
style or SMF.

Just a perspective...I have over 100,000 CDG (karaoke) files in my library,
and a karaoke service with more than 30,000 files.
As a performer I use one of these files (even it was a MP3 that I added lyrics).

What are your thoughts?

MIX IT UP

go get a waffle.

I am making a waffle now


Here is a question.. why mix it up?
If I am content without mixing it up

Now I can see mixing it up..waffle wise.. icecream, strawberries

Why not add some bacon and cheese?

Go with what pleases your audience most.

Gary

Music is too boring if you don't mix it up....

How is it possible to make a typo... 8 instead of x

But isn't going from one song of one genre to another to another all with different voices, tempos, rhythms, mixing it up?
Granted, a pro level MP3 with background voices etc. changes things up, but as Gary said, play what your audience wants ...

Randy.. for that I would start with a muffin and also squeeze in an egg

And for now... I am my audience

well, x = 10 ... in octal, base of 8, 8 is equivalent to 10, therefore, 8 = x ...

or it's just a slip of the finger ...

That's fine but there is so much more to music then just
automatic arranger KB repetitive styles.....
being a creative musician in all aspects
is what mixing it up is all about.
We can all talk...but personally I will ALWAYS ask
to HEAR what someone is talking about.
Then we can continue the discussion.

Let’s not forget that besides Styles,SMF's, MP3's, and Karaoke files., that we also have the option of playing full keyboard with no backing ( solo piano or vocal/piano) . Also we can mix it up more by playing LH bass ( or pedals) over a drum beat . Yes, so many options!

As for me, I mostly to do styles, because I like the flexibility of not being having to follow a prerecorded or sequenced arrangement. I use a SMF or audio backing track if I can’t find a style that suits the song or if I feel a style just can’t do the song justice. My wife who sings with me absolutely hates SMF, and any pre recorded/sequenced track, but. will give in if we feel like a style file doesn’t work.

Paul playing with others is another ballgame for sure..
many artists don't even know what an arranger is or how it works..that said..
many pro touring acts use some type of tracks
to enhance the show also..
today there are so many ways to do it, and there is
no wrong or right only good music
in whatever way shape, genre, or form it is created with.

For practice and performance I often use custom rubato, or "free play" type custom styles. There is no drum percussion or bass "groove." In many cases I'll activate sync stop, so the sound fades when I lift my fingers from the keys. I suppose it's more like organ playing, except that the arranger still adds a bass note, and I don't have to press all the keys to play a chord. Some of my friends feel that the resulting sound is more authentic, and certainly less busy than full accompaniment. Besides, this is the only way I know of to play liturgical music and traditional hymns.

I'm not a fan of playing over SMFs, MP3s, etc. Maybe with liberal use of mark & jump, muting parts at certain times, tempo changes, etc., it might be ok. But it begs the question- how much should I do in advance? I like arrangers and other auto-accompaniment instruments because I want to interact with the songs I like more directly than just making an mp3 playlist, or mix tape (remember those!)

But- for a short while I belonged to a casual singing group. I'm hardly a great keyboard player, and I wanted the emphasis to remain on the singing. So for practice and performance we used customized SMFs and KAR files.

Fran, I thought MIDI and Karaoke files were the same thing, except with a different extension? What are CDG?? Using my little BK-7m, I was able to change the key several steps, apply covers, makeup tools, change tempo and display the lyrics. Awesome tool! On .mp3's I could change the tempo and wash out most of the vocals with Center Cancel. Not sure about changing the key on .mp3s. Karaoke files were much more flexible. So each has it's purpose!

Ted interesting can we hear some of these songs you do
using the methods you are describing...maybe I can learn somethning?

Donny I probably won't post my music, I'm not that good! But ask yourself: what would a Catholic Church organist do? Bass on the pedals, held chords in the left hand, typically voiced close between F and F. RH single-note melody to lead the congregation with harmony sometimes added on the chorus. I don't have the skill to play a real organ like that. But using ALL of the automatic features of the arranger I can fake it pretty well. Without pedals (and the requisite skill to play them) I can't do bass "runs" like an organist could. But by using Bass Inversion I can force the bass note to something other than the root when necessary, which makes a lot of difference.

The trick to this is: NO drum. No rhythmic bass either. Just long, sustained notes in the style pattern (picture whole-note triads tied together for 32 measures, and you get the idea!) You have to choose voices that have an indefinite sustain like Organ, or at least a long sustain, like bowed string instruments.

On Roland, unfortunately you can't force the style track notes to "retrigger" when you change chords in the middle of the pattern [remember all those tied notes I mentioned?] So some voices can only be played with the sync stop active. Basically when you release the keys it resets the style pattern and forces everything to retrigger at measure 1 beat 1. Again, the time signature is irrelevant because there is no rhythm or groove. I can show you hymns that go from 6/8 to 9/8 and then back again-- what were those monks thinking?

Since the sound fades as soon as you release the keys, being able to transition quickly to the next chord is important. [Hello, single-finger majors!!] Adding some reverb and a long release makes the sound smoother. If I knew how to use a sustain pedal, I'd be dangerous!

I didn't invent this concept. For years, Yamaha, Korg, and ironically the lower-end Rolands have had the ability to play a string pad and monophonic bass sound when the arranger is activated and the rhythm is stopped. It's great for practicing and will work for any song that doesn't call for a strong rhythmic beat. Strangely, this mode isn't implemented as a convenient built-in function among TOTL models. But if you understand what's going on and the fine points of style creation, you can set up a rubato practice mode on any arranger that accepts custom styles, and has sync stop (or a retrigger function, and chord "memory" that can be disabled.)

Now that I've revealed the "secret", I would like to hear some of YOU playing these styles!

Sorry to hear that Ted........
most people don't know how good they really are?
"hearing" speaks a million words
My Aunt Connie was a Church Organist as a kid
I would just sit there in awe listening to her play
the big pipes with the choir.
I hope in time you can share some of your music with us
that's what it's all about.

take care

stay safe

Ted, Files with .mid and .kar are midi files. That is ..they are sequences that allow editing and transposing easily..

CDG are graphic MP3's, usually organized as a zip file. You can not edit them, and if you change keys , you will hear artifacts.

Originally Posted By Fran Carango
Just a perspective...I have over 100,000 CDG (karaoke) files in my library, and a karaoke service with more than 30,000 files.


Holy Moly
Are there any songs you DON'T have?

edit mp3+g zip files with karoake builder 2, Speed, key, merge, songs, clip and other features. Love it.
no problems.
MEL

For me, I'll just stick with using style files, of which I have about 50,000. A few years ago, when I was still gainfully employed, I can clearly recall many of my audience members sneaking a peak at me playing those keys, just to be sure I was actually playing. And, I remember one lady who came up to me while I was performing a song, and asking dumb questions. I got frustrated and stopped in the middle of the song, and explained to her that I cannot talk to her and sing the song at the same time. She looked down at her husband and said "Fred, you were right - it is really him singing and playing." Two seconds later, and one button push, I was back into the song and when I finished, I got a standing ovation. That song was Autumn Wind.

Fran, I know you relied on midi files a lot, and as DNJ always says, you have to mix it up. Well, I guess it's whatever floats your boat, but only as long as you are able to keep the audiences entertained with what they want to hear. My method of mixing it up was to constantly learn as many new songs as possible, them find a suitable style file and matching right hand instruments on the keyboard that would allow me to perform the song as close to the original as possible, while still allowing me to be creative.

All the best,

Gary

Or you could play it yourself instead of playing along to something fixed. (Nothing like having your own unique style)

Bill

When I was playing gigs, I used midi files and original recordings for songs I could not do justice to. As a home player I love the joy of playing, with and without styles.

The one thing I did not like about backing, was that it always played the song the same way, limiting and boring. To mechanical.
John C.

If I'm honest - when I played, or sang with bands - the rhythm (backing) parts almost NEVER varied. We rehearsed so that there was a consistency. What I played over top of that arrangement is essentially the same as how I approach playing over a track. I use full, 2 handed chords and greatly color the general arrangement ... just like I did in the band. No one ever said we sounded limited, or boring.

What "IS" a bit different about using sequences, and tracks is that you need to make then sound as lifelike as possible ... and that generally related to moving more air. At lower volumes, through smaller speakers, sequences loose a lot of their sizzle. I played Bari Sax in a 10 piece band that featured a 4 pc horn section, drums, perc, keys, gtr, and 2 front singers, as well as many harmony singers .... and EVERY (dance) song was sequenced. Experienced players can play in time with the track, just like a click in a studio - good monitors are essential, and listening for blend is vital. My approach is ONE SIDED - the audience has to enjoy it. If they like it, then I feed off that, and we're all happy. So, when playing to a packed dance floor - use the tools ya got. Give 'em the big guns - sometimes it's tracks, sometimes a simple piano/bass/drum version, and sometimes the crowd will accept a strong style arrangement ... the most important thing for me is to personalize what I ADD. Vocals rule, and the chording I use triggers the harmonizer, so that's #2. Everything else is just supporting me. In many cases, a powerful track, with a strong vocal can grab an audience quicker than a style based arrangement ..... not it ALL cases. Believe me - I use the styles. I LOVE the styles - that's whey I own arrangers, but when you play to a dance floor - you have to be ready to pull out all the stops.

Exactly Dave in other words .."MIX IT UP"

Ummm, not exactly. Sometimes I'm all tracks, sometimes no tracks. The crowd dictates the approach. saying Mix it up would be analogous to changing pitchers every inning in a baseball game, even if one was on a hot streak. You're not wrong .... but a better term would be Mix it up ... when appropriate. You have to use what works.

I have no idea what your talking about....
playing the same thing show after show is plain boring to me ...
so however you mix it up and make the audience happy
and you get paid is the way to go.
Don't be a one trick pony I say....carry on.

This "Mix it up" makes for very interesting conversation, in that it seems that everyone has their own idea of what it means ...
I understand where Donny is coming from, saying that playing the same thing the same way all the time is boring - and perhaps it is for the entertainer - but every 'performance group' from big bands, to rock groups, to the NY Rockettes performs the same routines time after time after time, and that's what the public expects ... I've said before that we saw Sinatra at what was then the Providence Civic Center ... we had great seats and could actually see the monitors he had for his lyrics - even his 'ad libs' were scripted !!! ... I saw an interview with Joe Walsh talking about when he was with the Eagles, and how he used to sweat while playing the solo in "Hotel California", because he KNEW it had to be the same, note for note, every time he played it ... Dave said that when he was in a band, it was all scripted, and tight, and was the same every time they played ... Our band wasn't like that ... we rehearsed, knew what we wanted to do, but each time we did a song, while some parts because of syncopation, harmonies, whatever, were the same, there was some variation ...
And Donny, when you were backing entertainers on cruise ships or concerts, weren't the arrangements always the same? ... did you find that boring?
Well, I don't know where I'm going with all this, just some thoughts on the subject I guess ...

Tony most of our big shows were always a tight
45 min non stopped medley usually two different ones per night
9pm & 11pm. But we all had the freedom
to stay within the songs boundaries and drift off the
chart here and there during a solo or when the need to vamp
while the singers talked to the audiences etc,..
playing with 9 pieces you need to all sync together.
We did many times have to go off script but when your together
so long you can work off each other very well with just a nod or a certain look at each other.
And if someone had an idea we would try to work it into the act and give it a chance to see the audience reaction and then decide
to keep it or not. Heck sometimes I'd end up playing drums or percussion if needed on some songs as my drummer would get sea sick.
Mixing it up to me means having an open mind without blinders on and willing to try different approaches to songs, playing them in many ways using flexible options available to you whatever they may be.
And believe me there are so many in today's world out there for the musician.
The Band days were fun, many great memories.

Stay safe

Sounds just like how our band ran ...



LOL ... our drummer had some stomach issues from birth ... if he was having a bad night he would hit the bass drum loud as a signal for our sax player to jump behind the drums ...



AMEN !!!



The BEST !!!
You also ...

Just listen to the post by known musicians from home. Most are just with keyboard or guitar. Alicia Keys sounds DELICIOUS that way. So do many others.

Russ

Dave, you make it sound that you are right, and you are not right, only half right. The difference comes in that we are listening to different types of music. I am not talking about 12 to 17 piece bands, or all types of music; example Latin and Disco music. Tempos can vary slightly, not 157 to 163, more like 157 t0 159, or 160.

This is one of the things that made my band successful. People would come up to dance a moderate 2step, or up-beat 4/4. Towards the end the tempo moved up gradually, and the band became stronger. People left the dance floor excited. There were times they walked out the door dancing. ----- We did our job well.

Now we are both right, and I feel better, John C.

PS,Backings will always use the same chord in the same place. They will also put excitement in the same place. Boring. But they do have their place. Amen!

Oooooo ... I can't say I agree with inconsistent tempos. As soon as they were good enough to use, I always said that EVERY drummer needed to own a drum machine. Invaluable training tool. I hope you don't think I am saying that a great player on an arranger is better than a great band. I'm not. My reference was to how the soloist plays when fronting a band, or playing over a track .... and just how the audience perceives the result. I'm glad we can both be right - makes for better conversations.