We aren't taking out all the fun of being here and interrelationships. That is why everyone has moved over here and IMHO is why they will stay over here. This Forum then, as a result, will soon be the largest and best Technics Forum on the net, if in fact it isn't already.
The "other" Technic's forums will probably end up populated by only "techies" and those just starting to develop their learning curve. There is a need for that. They will benefit each other. There is also a need for social interaction and relationships by those that are already comfortable in their technical and intellectual levels that aid in the interchange of ideas and techniques. The only need for separation of these groups is in individual attitudes by those who would control these groups. Some will be much happier in one group then the other. This forum is for Technical, Social and Information Sharing relationships. Technicians are certainly welcome and needed here but not to the exclusion of fellowship and social interaction. Those of us that are here and staying here are happy here so let us continue to be. Each Forum will attract their own players through fulfilling their individual needs. Please continue to invite your friends and contacts to check out all Technic's Forums and I believe most, although not all will choose ours. When they do, please make them welcome rather then uncomfortable through dissension.
It is my intention to send out an e-mail "NEWSLETTER" to everyone on my email list. I have in fact already sent out 3 or 4. If you have not received them send me your email address and I will add you. If you are receiving them and don't want to, just send me an email with delete for the subject and it is done. I will be sending out Bios of some of our members that have been kind enough to provide and release them. Should you like to have your bio shared with all our Newsletter members, just send it to me with your release and I will include it in one of the Newsletters. Some of you already have sent in bios and I will be sending them out each week. A big thank you to ALL OF YOU. Let's make this a great place for all.
Maybe we can't come over to your house and jam but we can get in here and jam. So, lets just do it. Pick a key and take it from the top. Best to all of you

------------------
BEBOP
Bill Forrest in SAN JOSE, CALIF. USA
bforrest@ix.netcom.com ICQ # 562519
Homepage http://members.fortunecity.com/bebop1
Moderator SynthZone TECHNICS FORUM
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/forumdi...=1000&SUBMIT=Go

I'm confused now:

who are these 'techies'?

who is being made uncomfortable through dissension?

why should anyone be more comfortable elsewhere if they wish to post here?

if this is a reply to 'Anyone Noticed?' why the defeaning silence on the subject of plagiarism of replies, the one issue where one would expect the 'moderator' to take a lead?

We've all put our 2pence or 2cents worth into this topic. Lets now forget about what technics did. That is now there problem so let them get on with it and also let us all get on with it and move forward in a constructive way, probably some thing on the lines of the Frank Bez posting. That could be of benefit to everyone.

Hi all
I'm confused as well now,dont quite understand Bebop's post,but i was so pleased when we moved to synthzone,a dream come true
I am new to these forums and it is great to be able to ask any question one may have regarding Music and Keyboards and get a responce almost by return,every one tries to help if they can.
There is always going to be some members that Know the answer, and post back, there are a lot of members that probable know the answer as well but dont like to say in case they are wrong and look silly, no one can be right all the time can they?
These forums are for everyone that wants to learn and share with each other in what ever way they can.
The end goal is play learn and have fun at the same time, whether you just starting out or are a professional have fun.
Mike

I totally agree about moving forward, but my questions were about this strange post.

Like Mike, I'm still confused and still waiting for an answer.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by peter.bentley@talk21.com:
[B]We've all put our 2pence or 2cents worth into this topic. Lets now forget about what technics did. That is now there problem so let them get on with it

It is Technote Peter not technics Technote! the difference is vast

Sorry, Johnnie I just didn't type what I was thinking and I stand corrected.'I think I might be confused by it all as well'



[This message has been edited by peter.bentley@talk21.com (edited 02-03-2002).]

Bebop,
I have read through your post several times now, meanwhile looking for a new
post from you to answer the questions we can see asked by some other members.
To be honest, even by use of my good old dictionairy, I have problems to find
out of what the real message 'between the lines' is here.
Well, maybe no wonder that I don't understand, when people who use english as
the first language seems to be a sort of confused too.

However, if my translation is what I think it is, then it is a message to me
about that at this board I have to do as you commands, or else I can just
leave, is that right?
That here is the place for the clever ones, and those who - "just starting to
develop their learning curve" can stay at other boards, because Bebop & Co are
so skilled that they need this place to pledge the social welfare?
Technote is bad because of the censorchip, but Synth Zone is good because you
decides who is welcome and who is not?

Because I'm a 'techie', and dare to tell that I don't fancy page up and down
about personal tragedies, private parties and even confirm that I still visit
Technote, besides that I don't use a lot of * in the name, I'm a enemy of SZone
and a beginner who needs to stay off of this board?

- "There is also a need for social interaction and relationships by those that
are already comfortable in their technical and intellectual levels that aid in
the interchange of ideas and techniques" you say.

Yepp, maybe so, but there is keyboard expert forums to find around the web too,
so those of you with the intellect higher than most of us would maybe find the
equal intellectual souls there, as well as a simple soul as me should stay else-
where?
Also you are a founder of, and run your own chat room, so could it be that the
social needs are being taken care of in a suitable place already?

I suppose it is this particularly board's terms of conditions we have to look at
to find out which way the administrator would like things to be here, not the
'friendly advice' in your post?

GJ


Btw,
the reason that 'everyone' moved over here, is a result of several
happenings as far as I can see, and if you look back to the posts at
Technote, you will find that SZ was mentioned many, many times, also
by me, as a good alternative to Technote, so SZone is not any new
invention at all.
The strange thing is, you never payed it any attention back then, when
everything went smoothly at Technote.

Gunnar Jonny
Although what you are saying not everybody will agree with
But as I have said before that is how democracy works.
Never the less you are speaking from the heart & on both forums that you have posted you have always done so, you have always been polite & courteous a gentleman in fact .

I admire you for saying how it is & in my book that is honesty.
Johnnie

What's so confusing about Bebop's post? Is there an overreaction here? Maybe I'm obtuse, but it sounds to me like he was simply giving his impressions of the value of the SZ board over the other(s), simply his expectations for this board. A hidden agenda---where? About half of the post dealt with an email newsletter and no one took issue with that.

Hi, no-one is asking about the email part. If you understand the undercurrent of the first part you are a better man than me. To me it reads as if some people are not welcome here. This is a very mixed message, first of all everyone is welcome, then all of a sudden only certain people are welcome? Who are the unwelcome ones? Why should they be unwelcome?

I find it peculiar that Bebop should post this mail and then not even clarify any queries about it. I've asked a few times for a lead on plagiarism of replies, surely something where one would expect a neutral moderator to provide a lead. Why no response?

Johnnie.c,
first of all I want to thank you for all the kind words that you
write here. My face tend to red, but I don't know why

No sir, I don't write a single word to make everybody agree with
me or any of the meanings I have, it is always my very personal
point of view I'm presenting, and I do indeed speak stright from
my heart.


J.Larry,
it might be that I've misunderstood the message above, but I find
the same contents or meanings regardless of how many times I have
read it. Now it is even repeated by a e-mail from Bebop.
You ask why no one speaks about that part, well, I may have some
thoughts about that too.

Other forums have a own tread, often called "Introduction" or so,
a separate topic where members, new or old, can say hello and fill
in what they want other members to know about themselves.
Here we have a moderator who ask us to mail this info to him, so
the information can be massmailed around.
If you look into the profile for each member, there is space to
fill in the info you want people to see, and just take a look, most
people are 'incognito', and not even a e-mail adress is to see.

Bebop also asking people to 'speak one's mind' out directly to him
by a personal mail, and then he will keep the information secret, post
it here at SZ or e-mail it to everyone if allowed. This way of do the
things are a kind of strange to me, and it seems more like a way to
make a "privat social club", rather than a "new openminded Technics
gang" here at this forum.
It also reminds me of the way the ministers behave in the church or in
a religious congregation, and it make me feel that Bebop uses this
forum more as his personal site, and the "newsletters" as a kind of a
parish magazine.

Why not make a new tread like: "Come on Folks, how do we like this
great Technics forum to be?"
The posts / messages about this matters should not be as any kind
of secret stuff, but a open issue where the forum is the tool where
to speak out about what we have in mind about it.

For some of you this might look like a "war" against Bebop, but it is
not, believe me.
It is not personal, and I think Bebop know that very well too. It is
the way I see this things are being done who get my neck-hair rising,
and the fact that I see a kind of 'condescension' against the other
Technics related places around. I.e. by a kind of 'childish' behavior
using * and x, without any reaction from the moderator, who rather is
encouraging to continue this way as i.e. in this post or newsletter.
Quote: The "other" Technic's forums.... End quote.

Kind regards
GJ

Hi ALL,
I didn't think it would be necessary to clarify what I wrote and it seems that it isn't for most readers.
1. "Techies" Many people are so caught up in their art they they have no interest in social interaction and are much more confortable in their own peer groups. We hope to cater here to all including social interaction.
2. Dissention. New people that join new groups almost always become uneasy when there is a lot of "dissention" going on. They soon move on as THEIR needs are not being met. They are looking for acceptance, not dissention.
3. Confort level. see 1 and 2 above. Everyone will tend to seek out their own group of peers for their confort level.
4. Plagarism. I have not seen any evidence of ANY plagarism on this forum. I think our members in THIS forum are above that.
I wrote in the newsletter for all to see and I will reitterate it here:
Please feel free to forward any of your comments to me directly by email if you don't want to post them on the forum. I understand that. I promise not to publish them. It will give me a better idea of whether we are on the right track for this forum or not.
Once again I make the point that I am always open to constructive criticism. I am not to old at 70 to learn new tricks or to identify with those of you in another age bracket. We can all learn from each other. This forum has already been a big learning curve for me. It is not my intent to try to control it. I think I have already posted about every thing I had to offer regarding the direction I hope to see this forum take. It is all up to you now. Enjoy the forum and each other.
I guess even that statement needs clarification.
Many people will not post their thoughts, wants, or needs on an open forum due to the possibility of ridicule that creates further dissention. I understand that well. I have encouraged them to post directly to me by email and assured them I will not publish their words and subject them to this. I hope to learn from them and you, that I might do a reasonably good job here as moderator.
I am trying. I am learning. I thank all of you for helping me with my learning curve.
I have put in a lot of time and effort to get this forum up and running AGAIN. Many of you have written and thanked me for my effort. Thank you to all of you.




------------------
BEBOP
Moderator SynthZone TECHNICS FORUM
http://www.synthzone.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=25
Bill Forrest in SAN JOSE, CALIF. USA
bforrest@ix.netcom.com ICQ # 562519
Homepage http://members.fortunecity.com/bebop1

Hi Bebop, thank you for the courtesy of a reply at last. I do not usually go on philosophy, but this requires a serious answer.

Regarding all this business of 'techies' or 'peer groups' I have no view because it all seems rather stating the obvious and self evident. People will post what they want to post, and do what they want to do as far as interaction is concerned. Sure you are free to offer an opinion if you want to, but this sounded like some kind of an edict from on high to many people, at odds with the democratic nature of a public forum.

As for comfort, the most uncomfortable thing about a new forum is the fear of a first post because you might appear foolish because it seems like an old boy's club between the 'favoured few'. This seemed to be type of thing you were actually aiming at ('already comfortable in their technical level' etc etc). This attitude will drive away beginners far more than any 'dissension'.

Also the talk of beginners and 'techies' going elsewhere I found offensive. Why can't beginners ask what they like where they like? I'll answer questions where I like, and when I like, whether I answer on Technote or here is a matter for me. Everyone is free to do what they want, within the conditions of the respective forums. I was not aware that giving accurate answers was a problem here.

As for the 'echoing' of posts, if you haven't seen any evidence you can't have looked hard. I have answered a few questions with private mails. Strangely these answers did not turn up again in the forum. Where I explained my reasons in the mail, no-one disagreed with me. It is extremely disappointing that a clear lead is not given here.

All I ever do is answer questions. Opinions are not my main interest, only occasionally do I divert into this sort of territory, when it seems things are not right. I cannot see why issues cannot be discussed here, in the open, without resorting to soliciting private mails and forming select cliques.

Bebop,

It is always good to get things clarified, and maybe I'm one of the
group who is a kind of slow, and need some extra help for understand
certain things in life.

1. "Techies" Many people.......

Hm, to tell you the truth, I thought 'Techie' was a nick name for all
Technics users in general, and that's the way I've been used it, in
a similiar way as I use "Yammies" for Yamaha users for years here.
Out of your post, I got this new explanation, and if you have'nt
brought it up, I think no one would have sorted out such groups as a
special peer group. We did not have this kind of needs few weeks ago
as far as I remeber, why now?

2. Dissention....

Wonder why this word is being used at first, and what there was to
create any such thing?
The situation was created when everybody, including me, was so eager
to "hit" Technote, but when the answer finally came, I tried to build
a bridge, and make both places as a alternative.
This is obviously not any good solution for many of you, who still use
a special way to tell the world who you are talkin about (***/xxx).
There is room for both, and to keep up a kind of enmity is not the best
answer, even if we was treated badly regarding to the way things went
out.
The new people who came, and still coming here, do also see what are
going on, and it's not any good example of us to keep on that way.
Young people might have something to teach us when it comes to this
matters.

3. Confort level....

Yes, if this is going to be a social club for special invited users, or
to fill in a few of the users special needs, I can see that people will
seek theyr own group of peer.
But why is that a subject now, when it have not been any before. Who was
it that brought this up as a issue all a sudden?


If people did not find it comfortable to post at the forum, why on earth
shoud a mail to you be the solution?
Why not advise those it might consern to mail any of the members of the
forum, why are you more fitted that all the others here?
Anyone can promiss not to tell, but maybe a priest is a better solution
if we have something who is too touchy for this forum?
The only statement nessesary should be:
"No question is less important than any other, and no questions are dumb
or stupid."
Not mail me private, this is just who want to 'control' everything on the
forum.
We do all struggle with different instrument problems who needs help to
be solved, even the most skilled users have to find out how to get many
different things to work.

I'm very glad that you're open minded, and I think most of us find a lot
of new knowledge here at this forum, regardless to age.
Mixed age usually makes a great source of inspiration, and I have always
been told that we're never too old to learn new things

Yes, you have done a lot to tell people where to find this forum, but as
far as I can see it, many old hands people who are here would have found
it anyway.
Only a matter of time and a little "lookback" in i.e. some Technote posts
or/and links on several Technics related webpages, etc., etc.

This forum have been here for a long time, the SZone name and url have never
been a secret, and as far as I know, you do the promoting and work of your
own free will. (And yes, no doubt, that is very good of you to do so!)
Looking around here at SynthZone, it seems to me that all the different
forums runs just fine without instructs editorials, and I cannot see that any
of those need a special 'captain' besides of SZones admin to run pretty well,
so I guess it would have been about the same situation here too.

Kind Regards
GJ