SYNTH ZONE
Visit The Bar For Casual Discussion
Page 7 of 14 < 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14 >
Topic Options
#502616 - 04/12/21 09:51 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Now that I have figured out how easy it would be trigger the Style Elements on the Yamaha GENOS using any MIDI Foot Controller, I have boiled down my choices to these two units:


  • Behringer FCB1010
  • Roland FC-300



Scouring the Internet, I found these two threads discussing the Pros and Cons between these two units.

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index....roller.1259660/


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6102.0


Everyone is in universal agreement that the Roland FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller has way better build quality. It is built to last with trouble free operation for many years.

Not a single user has been disappointed owning this unit, although the price is high.

On the other hand, the Behringer FCB1010 offers a slew of functions at a bargain basement price. Even if you break 3 units, you will still be ahead of the game.

For me the biggest advantage of the Behringer FCB1010 will be the free FCB1010 Manager Editor software that is available. This editor makes it a breeze to program 5 Program Changes plus 2 Control Changes per Preset.

You can have 100 presets grouped under 10 Banks that you can Name and add some descriptive notes. This is ideal for organizing everything.

The Roland FC-300 has no such editor, although the User Interface is easy enough to enter your data.

No one has the Behringer FCB1010 in stock. It is in back order.

The Roland FC-300 is available right now. It is the gold standard of all MIDI Foot Controllers.

Owners of both units have pointed out that the 2 pedals on the FC-300 feel a lot better than the ones on the FCB1010. Besides, the two pedals on the Roland unit comes with a toe switch which is absent in the Behringer unit.

Decision time!

Top
#502617 - 04/12/21 11:54 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
The User Manual for the Roland FC-300 MIDI Foot Controller is exceptionally well written.

http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1810998/FC-300_e2.pdf

This is one of the rare Foot Controllers that support a SysEx Mode. So, all bases are covered. This gets Diki's stamp of approval!

Since this device can communicate via System Exclusive messages, it is possible to write an Editor for it.

I found someone has already created an Editor for the Roland FC-300.

fc.Factory 1.1.01

http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/products.html

This is created by Derek Cook.

Derek charges a modest $26 to license this. You would need to install Java Run Time Environment (JRE) Version 11 on your computer.

The Roland FC-300 supports 4 modes of operation:

  • Standard
  • Control
  • Sys Ex
  • Patch


At the moment, this editor only supports the Patch Mode on the FC-300, which is the most useful and important mode.

Derek’s User Guide explains how to operate the Editor.

http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/Downloads/Manuals/fcFactory.pdf





Edited by Tapas (04/12/21 12:00 PM)

Top
#502829 - 05/13/21 08:02 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller with a Korg Pa2X Arranger

I received the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller from Sweetwater and decided to try this on a Korg Pa2X Pro 76 Key Arranger.

As usual Sweetwater carefully double boxed the unit and shipped it via FedEx and it arrived in pristine condition.

There are two free editors available for the FCB1010 device.

1.
FCB1010 Manager

https://mountainutilities.eu/fcb1010


2.
PC Editor for FCB1010

http://www.mtnsys.com/?path=faq-fcb/PCEditorBeta.htm


I tried both.

The FCB1010 Manager is far easier to use and has a sleek interface.

Each of the 10 Pedals on the FCB1010 can be programmed to send out 5 Program Change messages, 2 Continuous Controller messages, a single MIDI Note, as well as control the Expression Pedals A and B along with 2 Foot Switches.

Each of these messages can be sent on their own MIDI Channels 1-16 which is set globally.

The FCB1010 Manager makes it a child’s play to program the 10 Pedals by presenting a spreadsheet view of all the Controls as columns and all the Presets as rows.

The FCB1010 devices can store 10 banks, each bank containing 10 presets for a total of 100 presets.

The device communicates with the FCB1010 Manager via SysEx Send and Receive.

You can add a short description for each of the 100 Presets and name each of the 10 Banks.
They are stored as a companion .FCB file along with the matching .SYX file.

The FCB1010 Manager comes with a good MIDI Monitor. However, it is far more elegant and useful to install MIDI-OX to visualize your MIDI traffic and make internal MIDI port connections.

Please download and install MIDI-OX 7.0.2

http://www.midiox.com/

This is an invaluable tool to help you program any MIDI Controller and verify that you are sending and receiving the right Program Change and Control Change messages.


You should also install loopMIDI

http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html

This allows you to create internal MIDI pipes on the fly. This is the ideal tool to create virtual loopback MIDI cables. They get removed when you log off.

Normally you would need to open the back plate of the FCB1010 device to check which version of Firmware you have. The PC Editor for FCB1010 makes this unnecessary. It can query your device and return the Firmware version.

My unit came with Behringer 2.5.1E. This is the latest version. This EPROM is guaranteed to work with the FCB Manager software.

I chose a Pa2X Pro to run my initial tests because Korg Arrangers are the easiest to set up with external MIDI Foot Controllers.

You can download the Korg Pa2X Pro Owner’s Manual from:

https://www.korg.com/us/support/download/manual/1/186/2212/

The essential Style Elements can be controlled by sending a Program Change message on the MIDI Control Channel.

They are listed on Page 280.

PC Style Element
80 Intro1
81 Intro 2
82 Intro3/Count In
83 Variation 1
84 Variation 2
85 Variation 3
86 Variation 4
87 Fill 1
88 Fill 2
89 Fill 3/Break
90 Ending 1
91 Ending 2
92 Ending 3
93 Fade In/Out
94 Memory
95 Bass Inversion
96 Manual Bass
97 Tempo Lock
98 Single Touch
99 Style Change
100 Start/Stop Style
101 Start/Stop Player 1
102 Start/Stop Player 2
64 STS 1
65 STS 2
66 STS 3
67 STS 4


I decided to pick the 10 most useful functions to populate the 10 Pedals in Bank 0 like so:

Pedal Function
1 INTRO 1
2 INTRO 2
3 FILL 1
4 FILL 2
5 FILL 3/BREAK
6 VAR 1
7 VAR 2
8 VAR 3
9 VAR 4
10 ENDING

I decided to use MIDI Channel 16 as my Control Channel to send these Program Change messages.

You can download the SysEx file from:

http://davidapps.net/fcb1010/fcb1010_pa2x.zip

Note: When you load the FCB1010+Pa2X.syx file into the FCB1010 Manager you will notice that Program Change numbers have been incremented by 1 from the table on Page 280. This is because the FCB1010 device is based on a 1-128 numbering scheme, whereas Korg Arrangers are based on a 0-127 numbering scheme.

Is it necessary to have direct control over of the Variation Buttons?

Not really.

You can program the Fills to increment or decrement the Variations. So I replaced the Variation Controls with Single Touch Setting Controls in Bank 1.

Pedal Function
1 INTRO 1
2 INTRO 2
3 FILL 1
4 FILL 2
5 FILL 3/BREAK
6 STS 1
7 STS 2
8 STS 3
9 STS 4
10 ENDING

This bank of 10 Presets turned out to be the most useful in practice.

To make the Korg Pa2X work with the Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller and the Roland RD-700GX 88-Key Stage Piano you need to make some critical settings, the most important being setting MIDI Channel 16 as your CONTROL channel and MIDI Channel 1 as your GLOBAL channel.

I have explained all the setup configurations with annotated screenshots in this PDF document.

http://davidapps.net/fcb1010/fcb1010_pa2x_setup.pdf


David

Top
#502830 - 05/13/21 08:24 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14245
Loc: NW Florida
Very in depth. Thanks.

One thing to watch out for is any reliance on the screens of these foot controllers. Most of them are primarily designed for guitarists, who stand behind the pedal and can see it clearly. Naturally, as a keyboard player, it’ll be buried under the keyboard, where you can’t see a damn thing!

So plan ahead, try to come up with ONE setup with standardized positions for what you tend to want to do the most, so you can start to develop a muscle memory for being able to hit the switches without looking, rather like playing organ pedals.

Try also to place show-stopping functions like Start/Stop, Break/Fills etc. at the opposite end of the pedalboard from where the buttons you’ll be hitting the most are, as insurance against accidentally hitting them. It takes a while before that muscle memory develops, and a missed button can play havoc with a song if you don’t think carefully about what is adjacent to what! 😱🤔

Depending on arranger, you might also, if you do find yourself needing different setups for different circumstances (Roland only ever had the one global layout for the FC-7, but I always felt one setup for style mode and one for SMF/MP3 use would have been a big improvement) you might be able to get the keyboard to send a patch change to the pedal when you change registrations. But I caution against having too many different ones. Two or three tops, I think…

Keep us informed about your journey… 🎹😎
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#502874 - 05/16/21 09:32 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Diki]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Excellent points Diki.

I agree with all the issues you mentioned.

I am testing out a Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller. This has a large LED screen with big bold red characters. Moreover, each of the 10 Pedals can be illuminated with different colored LEDs.

This is already working out better than the FCB1010 unit. I will post my initial evaluation shortly.

Top
#502879 - 05/16/21 03:43 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Using the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller with a Korg Pa2X Arranger

I decided to try out the Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pacer--nektar-pacer-midi-foot-controller

Once again, Sweetwater delivered the unit double boxed via FedEx 2-day Home Delivery in pristine condition.

The MIDI Capabilities of this device goes way beyond the Behringer FCB1010.

The FCB1010 has 10 banks. Each bank controls 10 pedals for a total of 100 presets.

On the other hand, the Pacer has 24 banks which they call Presets.

Each of these 24 presets can independently control 10 Switches (pedals) along with 4 External Foot Switches and 2 external Expression Pedals.

Each of these 10 Switches (pedals) can be programmed to send various types of messages:

Control Change Toggle
Control Change Trigger
Control Change Step
MIDI Note
MIDI Note Toggle
Program Change & Bank
Program Step
NRPN Coarse
NRPN Fine
MIDI Machine Control
Relay Outputs
Preset Select
Preset Increment/Decrement
Step Select
Step Increment/Decrement
OFF

You can select the MIDI Channel (1-16, or 0 for Global) and set the Color of the LEDs when the Switch is on or off.

If that is not enough, you can also program a sequence of 6 Steps into each of these 10 pedals sending any of the above messages.

This is a MIDI Programmer's Dream Machine!

What makes this device a joy to use is the free online editor designed by Francois Georgy, a fan of the Pacer.

https://studiocode.dev/pacer-editor/#/

Hooking up the Pacer to your Computer is a breeze. It uses a class complaint USB 2.0 port. It is recognized immediately. There are no device drivers to install.

This USB cable also supplies the power to the unit.

The device was initially marketed by Nectar to act as a dedicated DAW controller. It controls the PLAY, START/STOP, REW, FWD, RECORD, LOOP functions of your DAW right of the box.

It became so popular that its MIDI capabilities were extended to control effect units, hardware synths and keyboards.

It is the ideal device to control your Arranger Keyboard.

What makes this device stand out is the large red LCD display that can be read under any lighting condition.

Moreover, you can assign 12 different colors to the LEDs on each of the 10 pedals.
Each color can be dim or bright to indicate if the pedal is on or off.

I made 3 Presets for controlling the Style Elements of the Korg Pa2X that you can download from:

http://davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_pa2x.zip

I have explained how to program these Presets and make them work with the Korg Pa2X in this User Guide:

http://davidapps.net/pacer/pacer_pa2x_setup.pdf


David





Edited by Tapas (05/16/21 05:09 PM)

Top
#502880 - 05/16/21 05:02 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Behringer FCB1010 vs Nectar Pacer MIDI Foot Controller

It is logical to assume that anyone who purchases both these devices to control their Arranger Keyboard would make a list of pros and cons.

Here are my thoughts:

The Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller has been around for a long time. It is an affordable device offering a slew of MIDI functionality that does the job. I can understand its wide popularity. Manual programming is difficult because all it has is a 2 character display.

This is no longer an issue since you have the FCB1010 Monitor software to edit the 100 Presets in the form of a spreadsheet.

https://mountainutilities.eu/fcb1010

You can quickly make edits to a group of Presets by cutting and pasting values.

SysEx transfer is almost instantaneous.

The device is self-contained. It comes with 2 Expression Pedals.

It does not have USB capability. However, it has MIDI IN and MIDI OUT/THRU ports.

You can use the MIDI MERGE function to connect a Stage Piano to the MIDI IN port of the FCB1010 device and then transmit the merged output to the MIDI IN port of your Arranger Keyboard.

The device comes with a built in power supply.

The Behringer FCB1010 offers an unbeatable value at $159.99

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FCB1010--behringer-midi-foot-controller-fcb1010

You can switch EPROMS to get additional functionality.

https://www.eurekasound.com/eurekaprom

https://www.fcb1010.eu/

This brings a lot of versatility.


The Nectar Pacer is a much more modern design with USB capability.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Pacer--nektar-pacer-midi-foot-controller

For $70 more you get a ton of extra MIDI Control over your connected devices.

The device has a premium build quality and feels sturdy.

Each of the 10 pedals plus the Preset pedal has a positive feel when you step on them. They are silent. You can assign 12 different colors to each pedal and change how they behave when on or off. The big bright red LED display tells you what MIDI message got sent.

You will never be left wondering if your pedal was correctly engaged.

This visual clue is crucial under the stress of a live performance.

On the other hand, the pedals on the FCB1010 feel mushy. You can hear them crunch as you push down. It feels like you have accidentally stepped on a big fat roach with your boots. It does not give you a satisfactory feeling.

Sometimes you need to push down really hard to make a positive contact.

The pedals on the Pacer are easier and satisfying to operate. The Pacer wins by a mile in this aspect.

The width of the Pacer is just right at 20 inches. You can attach two of your favorite Expression Pedals and 4 additional Foot Switches.

The FCB1010 is a lot larger measuring 26 inches wide as it includes the two expression pedals.

I would rather have the smaller width of the Pacer with the option to add my own expression pedals.

What makes the Pacer stand out is its comprehensive control over every MIDI function including Transport and Track controls for almost all popular DAWs. It understands the Mackie Control protocols.

The Pacer is the ideal device for Guitarists and Keyboard Players to remotely control their effect boxes and Arranger Keyboards.

The Pacer can send out 6 note Chords from each of its 10 pedals. Remember, each pedal can be programmed for up to 6 sequence steps that can be triggered one step at a time or in a single burst.

This allows a Guitarist to control chord changes on an Arranger with their feet.

If you were to buy a MIDI Foot Controller today, I would highly recommend in spending $70 more and getting the Nectar Pacer device.

The FCB1010 was the king of all MIDI Foot Controllers 10 years back. It rightfully acquired thousands of fans worldwide.

The Nectar Pacer is the new kid in the block. Its functionality, built quality and visual appeal far surpasses the FCB1010.

At $229.99 the Pacer is still cheaper than the Yamaha MFC10 or the Roland FC-300.

I have not tried the Roland FC-300. I use a Roland FC-7 foot controller with my Roland E-80 Arranger. Judging from the build quality of the FC-7 I can make a confident guess that the pedals on the FC-300 will outclass the pedals on the Pacer.

When it comes to build quality it is hard to beat a Roland product.

David




Edited by Tapas (05/16/21 05:04 PM)

Top
#502882 - 05/17/21 07:41 AM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
lahawk Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2785
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
For now, I would take an update for the Genos (and SX-900)
_________________________
Larry "Hawk"

Hawk Music
Sadly No More frown

♫ 🎹🎹 ♫ SX-900




Top
#502893 - 05/17/21 09:39 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14245
Loc: NW Florida
Not much upside for a major OS update to Yamaha’s current lineup, at least from Yammie’s viewpoint.

All in all if a problem CAN be solved with external gear, might as well use it, as you could wait forever for additional functionality to get added via OS update…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

Top
#502921 - 05/23/21 07:22 PM Re: Yamaha Genos 2 anticipated release date [Re: Tapas]
Tapas Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/02
Posts: 324
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
I would like to extend my warm regards to Frank Ventresca, owner of AudioProCT.com for delivering the Yamaha GENOS in pristine condition.

Frank took great care in double boxing the package with a ULINE box measuring 48” x 24” x 8”.
He wrapped the whole thing with a black film for added protection.

UPS Ground had no problems delivering this light 30 lb box at my door on time.

Everything was sealed and factory fresh.

I immediately began to run a series of tests on this brand new unit.

The 9” diagonal LCD screen is bright and flawless. It looks quite a bit larger than the 8” screen on the CVP-609.

The Analog Outputs on the GENOS are clean as a whistle. Even when the Master Volume is turned all the way to its Max position, there is absolutely no hiss. This is a common characteristic of Yamaha hardware.

Roland synths and sound modules on the other hand do exhibit some hiss as you turn up the main volume.

The headphone output on the GENOS pairs well with the Sony MDR-7506 headphones. These low impedance 63 ohm headphones play loud enough with the GENOS Master Volume pushed to the 2 o’clock position.

The Sony MDR-7506 headphones sound clear but lack the bass. I could hear a richer and warmer sound with a fuller bass using the Beyerdynamic DT-990 Pro Open Dynamic headphones.

However, the DT-990 Pro has a higher impedance of 250 ohms. I had to turn the GENOS Master Volume to its Max Level to get sufficient output.

If you have a high impedance headphone, it may be better to connect your GENOS to a mixer like a Mackie 1604VLZ4 and use the headphone out on the mixer.

Next, I connected the Main (Left/Right) Analog Output of the GENOS to several powered Studio Monitors.



Behringer B3031A Truth Monitors
JBL LSR 4328P Monitors
ADAM A7X Studio Monitors



I will be posting the results of my evaluation in my quest to find the optimal external sound system for the GENOS.

Top
Page 7 of 14 < 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14 >

Moderator:  Admin, Diki, Kerry 



Help keep Synth Zone Online