I've just made a tough decision regarding relatives visiting over the holidays. This includes my grandson who will be on xmas break from college and whom I really want to see. Because of the uptick in Covid infections (both Delta and Omicron) in the state (and locally), I am limiting my visiting to Zoom, Duo, or visual Alexa calls. Given the general age group and health condition of most of the active members here on SZ, I was just wondering how you felt about this or how you were handling it. How concerned are you about contracting the virus? BTW, the current surge in new and 'breakthru' cases is supposed to decline after the winter season. Just curious.

chas

In the UK Omicron is going through the roof (Hence the push to get the booster jab into at least 80% of the population by the end of December) and the same is also happening in most of Europe, (As well as many other country’s) however indications are that while infections of Omicron is sky rocketing, hospitalisations and deaths are currently are not, (But it is early days) and seems to be following SA where Omicron was first discovered (And only around 30% are vaccinated), so only time will tell, however indications are also that for most people Omicron is mild ( The US is estimated to be 2-3wks behind most other countries so they have not yet felt the full force of Omicron) the one positive is that Delta has levelled off and is expected to fall sharply as it gets replaced with Omicron. (Omicron is also expected to peak fast and decline fast)

Apart from standard precautions (Wash Mask, Distance) then unless restrictions are increased I will be carrying on as normal and just being careful. (I also had the booster jab some weeks ago)

Bill

If you already got the booster jab, I think it‘s not too risky to do family visits, unless you have a specific high-risk condition or a condition that makes the vaccinations ineffective (immune suppression). I guess you‘d still have a risk comparable to influenza after three vaccinations, it‘s a personal decision whether you want to take that moderate risk.
For the unvaccinated, there is no real evidence that Omicron is milder than Delta. Most participants included in the South African studies which say it‘s milder had previous infections of another Corona variant and thus had a certain immune protection.

Hi Bill, I am in the UK also (Bedfordshire), do you think we'll be in another lockdown soon? I see that the London Mayor has issued a Critical Incident in London.

This feels like nothing's changed from 12 months ago. Frightening times.

All the best,
Danny

HI Danny

Just checked up on various news sites and leaked documents have appeared that indicate there might be a lockdown of 2 weeks from the 27 or 30th of the month, with SAGE recommending sooner, however this could be just a ploy to get those that are hesitant to get the jab a nudge.
In truth the spread of Omicron is so fast that all the data cannot be processed quickly enough so it’s still up in the air for a definite answer, however as I said, indications from other countries are that it is not as bad as the Delta variant and will peak and decline fast. (Personal perception will depend on whether you are a glass half full or glass half empty type of person)
Everyone I know (And looking at the number of people that are out and about) are just following standard rules (Wash, Mask, Distance) and just being careful.

Bill

I’m Moderna boosted, and I don’t really have the slightest worries about gatherings. I’m not immune compromised, and from what I’ve read, even a breakthrough infection will be mild at worst.

Those who have voluntarily decided to not vaccinate, let them roll the bones.

Either we trust the science, or we don’t. Science says fully vaxxed with a booster, particularly other than Pfizer, you are good to go. So go…! Otherwise, what was the point of the shots?

The unvaccinated are who are prolonging this disease. Let them pay the price. Yes, you might have the freedom to choose. But there’s no way round the consequences of the choice.

We are seeing one of the greatest increases in average IQ of the world’s population since the invention of the printing press as the stupid choose to increase their risk of dying horribly. I don’t see much of a downside to that, to be honest…

Chas, your choice seems cautious and sensible, nothing wrong with that.

I will see family and friends over the holidays, and feel pretty comfortable doing so. Most of us are full vaccinated. I feel I am taking a slight risk, but yes it's a risk.

At work (I'm a high school teacher) I mask up everyday even though masks are optional. Most of my students don't wear masks and most are not vaccinated. I usually have 30 students students in a small class room , so that's a risky situation there for sure!

At gigs I don't mask up, I probably should, but I know it's a risk, but I feel like if I do get the virus, I'd would likely get a mild case. My overall health, fitness and weight are all good.

Normally I get 2-3 colds a year, but I haven't got sick with anything since 2019 (Knock on wood) I am sure mask wearing at school and other indoor public spaces, constant hand washing and being fully vaccinated has a lot to do with that!

Here's to a safe, happy and healthy holiday season!

My dear great grandson (he's 2 1/2) and family moved back here three weeks ago. I'm going crazy wanting to see him, but I'm following a program much like Chas.

Really don't want to take more of a risk.

Also, I just notified all my customers that in person work (playing live, recording, film work, etc.) will be suspended pending further evaluation of the risks.

Just seems the right thing to do.


Ho, Ho, Ho, everyone.



BE SAFE!


R.

Are you fully vaxxed and boosted, Russ?

If so, why the caution?

I think, given the current (and ever-changing) state of this pandemic, that 'caution' is always in order, regardless of your vaccination status or what you THINK your health status is. I too, am fully boosted, but given my age and the fact that I suffer from chronic bronchitis and chronic sinusitis, I'm going to do everything I can to minimize my risk of contracting this virus (or some future variant). In other words, I can see questioning someone's decision to engage in risky behavior but I can't see questioning their decision to err on the side of caution. When age, health, and environment are taken into account, everyone's situation is different and that makes it hard to nail down a standard of risk that's right for everyone. In the end, everyone has to live with the decisions they make (and hope that it doesn't affect anyone else) so I'm not sure questioning why someone else didn't make the same decision we did, is in order.

The data so far seems to suggest that, aside from the unvaccinated, most 'breakthru' cases are occuring among the elderly (that would be me ). Anyhow, I'm off to get my flu shot now (and a fresh supply of masks). BTW Diki, I feel the same way you do about the idiots that refuse to get vaccinated on 'principle'. Sadly, most of the (high profile) ones preaching this are themselves vaccinated. I do feel empathy for those in some of the poorer countries for whom the vaccine is just not available. I hope we, as world citizens, can help alleviate that problem soon.

chas

Wow, seems like the new Omicron variant is running wild, infecting an increasing number of people who are 'vaxed and boosted', including US Senators Warren and Booker. Sounds like a reason to be cautious to me.

chas

Vaccination is not designed to stop infection (Just ask your Doctor) it just allows the body to create the anti-bodies to give the virus (Or any diseases that there are vaccines for) the finger. (IE: Significantly less chance you will need hospital treatment)

Bill

Yes, Diki. I am just worried about the lack of positive proof that I won't be a carrier and unintentionally infect a friend or family member.

I think data will be stronger and more reliable in a month or so.

I'm taking the position that I can't be too careful.

Let's keep our fingers crossed, everybody!


Russ

I think we are starting to see in the post vaccinated about the same level of risk we used to have in normal flu seasons. Yes, you MIGHT be a carrier, but you could have as easily carried flu in previous years.

And we didn’t completely shut our lives down in an effort to reduce the risk of the flu to a complete zero. There’s a certain degree of risk in just living a normal life.

In previous decades, yes, we elderly were at higher risk of getting the flu. So, we got our flu shot and then lived our normal lives well aware that there was no guarantee it would be 100% effective. And some of us caught the flu. But few enough that it wasn’t worth giving up on work, friends and family to ensure a 0% chance of getting it.

I am fully vaxxed and boosted. I intend to live life fully with the realization that I appear to be running the same risk as I did in flu seasons in the past. That didn’t shut me down then, so why change now?

The unvaxxed have chosen their path willfully. I will not feel the slightest guilt if I unknowingly expose them to infection. They have had their chance, and I’m not going to live like a hermit to protect people too stupid to protect themselves! I am utterly convinced that 100% vaccination in the first few months of availability would make the current variant non existent, and global 100% vaccination would have prevented it developing in the first place.

South Africa admitted that quite some time ago, they had enough vaccines for 100% of the adult population, and only vaccine hesitancy created the conditions where a new variant could develop. I am completely over ruining my life to protect the very people that are prolonging this preventable pandemic in the first place.

Roll them bones, suckas! I’m done with trying to help those who won’t help themselves.

I think getting 100% of the world's population vaccinated is an unrealistic goal, and given how 'small' the world has become (via international travel), I'm not sure we can/could prevent the spread of ANY highly contagious disease. The only shot is to nip it in the bud which has also proven difficult (for the same reason - travel). Seems the only shot is to follow the advice of the scientists regarding precautions and ride it out. If you're an ol' fart, trying not to die in the meantime also sounds like a good idea. In my area, service and home delivery people are always masked but even so, if they have to come inside, they're greeted with a non-contact thermometer. So far, none have seemed to mind. They know it's not personal. But hey, everyone has to determine for themselves the level of risk they're comfortable with. Me, I just want to see my grandchildren graduate from college and I'm long since past the age of getting shot by a jealous husband .

chas

Might seem insignificant to some, but I just saw on Fox News that the total number of people, worldwide, that have died from the new variant is 10. Hell, more people were shot to death in Chicago last weekend. After spending more than 15 years working in the medical field, sometimes working with TB patients in large sanitariums near Baltimore, which was far more deadly and contagious than Covid, I tend to take much of the current Covid hype with nothing more than a grain of salt. And, for a fact, I know that masking makes little or no difference in the transference of the disease aerobically. In order to prevent bugs from passing through a face mask, you would need to have to be able to breathe through a 2 or 3 micron filter, which is not physically possible. Way too much political hype with this, yet people who say listen to the science, obviously, do not listen to the science. My grandson, who got vaccinated, got the booster, and just 10 days after the booster, came down with covid, which kept him out of school for 3 weeks. His only symptoms were a mild fever and sore throat for 2 days.

Do what you believe is right for you, your family and loved ones!

Merry Christmas, everyone,

Gary (The old codger.)

Well, if you heard it on Fox news it MUST be true, right?!

It’s not like them to propagate fake news, is it? They certainly have no agenda, right?

Gosh Diki, took the words right out of my mouth . However, now I have a real dilemma, who to believe; Gary, who 'worked in the medical field' (presumably as a virologist?) or Dr. Fauci, MD/PHD and world-renowned scientist with 50+ years of dedicated research in this area and considered by most rational people to be the leading expert in virus research. Hmmmm, tough choice. Hard to argue with a 'truth-teller' like say, Tucker Carlson . But wait, this is starting to sound a little bit political and we know where that leads so I'll just say, use your own judgement about who and what to believe and may your hospital stay be a short one .

chas

Using their (our) own judgement is what got us into this mess. 😂🙄

Me I’ll take a world renowned virologist’s judgement over my own!

Unless it’s about how to use an arranger! I’m prepared to accept that I MIGHT know a bit more than your average virologist there!

All vaccines carry a small amount of risk but most people accept it as the good outweighs the bad.
Its personal choice whether you take it or not, but most deaths since the vaccines were introduced have been the unvaccinated with the vaccinated being small in comparison. (Due to the speed of its spread Omicron is still an unknown).
As with media (No intelligent person listens to one media channel) take information from all and extract the data that is common to all, that way you will pretty much have the full truth.

Bill

Does it take a phD to understand why dentists and surgeons wear masks? How would anti-vaxxers feel when surgical tools aren't sterilized?

Anti-vaxxers are stealing the freedom of others. Selfish pricks!

Good riddance! https://newsone.com/playlist/famous-anti-vaxxers-who-have-died-from-covid-19/item/4

I'm happy to live in a country where selfish behavior is frowned upon. The common good, not the individual, is the way to go. As a result, our lives have been back to normal for over a year. We only have to wear masks in hospitals, banks, pharmacies and certain shops. Never heard a complaint because people follow rules. Countries that politicized Covid-19 are paying the price. What you get when you mix politics with science...is just politics.

I think you’re right on that matter!

Well, thinking of all the people that has got seriously ill, those who died and those who might be the next victims of the world wide Covid virus.....
I will twist your statement and say 'all of you who ignore the danger by NOT take the vaccines are the stupid ones'.
Reading news from USA, it even looks like USA's former President Mr. T admit at his «History Tour» that he has taken
the booster shot and encourage people to take the vaccine.
That should make those who are afraid of the vaccination to turn, don't you think?
As we know he preached highly about there was no Covid 19, do you think he would take any vaccine if it's dangerous?

It looks like the virus changes rapidly, but we can see that those who has taken vaccine get much lighter and far less symptoms than non vaccinated.
Non vaccinated are those who get the most serious illnesses and that fills up the hospitals beds and reduces capasity to make other urgent treatments.



I agree fully, this sort of discussions should be placed in The Bar.
We've seen what effect discussions about politics and politicians have at the SZ ......

Where did covid 19 come from as they are the ones that should be held responsible by the rest of the world?

Bill

Most likely not where you think it came from.

In my original post, I just (out of curiosity) asked if people were planning to visit relatives virtually or in-person over the holidays. I didn't think that was controversial enough to be BAR-worthy. From there it migrated to "Fauci is a phony, the vaccines are poison, and the Government is lying to us". Oh, and let's not forget how our private information is being stolen by the microchips put in the vaccines by Bill Gates and transmitted directly into Hillary Clinton's private server. This was all discovered from a document retrieved from the Capitol building on Jan. 6, 2020. Thank goodness we've got these heroic patriots out there to protect us.

And on the Arranger keyboard front....apparently there is a keyboard being developed by a Soros-backed company that will only play jazz chords. To compete with this, another keyboard is being developed by a Southern company (Redstates, Inc.) which will only play two chords (designed to cover nearly all of the Country genre'). One-finger chords not required as this board will respond to Alexa commands. This will free up the finger to 'flip the bird' at any jazz lovers in the audience. Too much? Oh well, a ridiculous end (hopefully) to an inocent inquiry that turned ridiculous.

chas

We will visit family and have visitors, but follow the Government's advice regarding to amount of people at once and so on.
Also when to wear mask and what distance to keep both in and outdoor.
Merry X-mas! 🎄🎶🍷

Thanks GJ, and a Merry X-mas to you. Hope everyone emerges from these holiday gatherings in good health.

chas

Chas, love your sense of humor. I want both of those kb's in a 2 kb setup. And yes, we are having family dinner on Christmas day. And I agree I may have went a little overboard with my earlier posts but I was simply reacting to being called stupid for my position. I will check the bar to see if the discussion has moved on.

Chas, and DIKI, I was trained at the University of Maryland Hospital, NIH Bethesda, MD, and The Johns Hopkins Hospital School of Medicine. Where did you get your medical training. Yeah - I thought so. As for the so called professionals, namely Fauci, he changes his mind every 30 minutes about this disease. And, his claim to fame was to be put in charge of AIDS. Hmmm! If I recall correctly, AIDS is still with us, and he had nothing to do with the medications that keep it at bay.

Gary

Thanks Ekurburski, that's the nicest response I've ever gotten from the loyal opposition . And to be honest, I can't blame you for reacting to the "stupid" comment. Everyone has a right to express his or her opinion without undue ridicule. It just shows how far we can go when our deeply felt beliefs/opinions are challenged. We tend not to re-read our posts before hitting the 'submit' button. About those 'keyboards', I won't name names but a couple of our members already have prototypes . Have a nice Xmas dinner with your family and take whatever safety precautions you deem appropriate.

Gary, your last post speaks volumes, so I won't even comment on it. Even so, I (sincerely) hope the state of your health allows you to enjoy the holiday season. This is my second without by beloved wife who sadly died from Covid-19 in 2020.

chas

There’s a difference between people who THINK they know everything, and people that know they don’t know everything.

People who think they know everything never change their minds.

As I said previously if you want to know the truth never rely on one source (Expert or media) but collate a number of them and the commonality between them will be the most likely truth, also follow the data as while there can be various interpretations of the data, the data itself doesn’t lie. (How we ended up NOT questioning everything we read or hear and just relying on one source is just mind boggling).
Working and training in a particular industry does not make you an expert in all of it, so while it can be an extra source of info it should NOT be treated as correct unless specific to the job in hand. (Anyone who says they know everything should also be avoided)
Australia seems to have changed its track on how to go about it (Plus like most first world country’s they have a first class universal healthcare system) which will be interesting to watch.

Bill

RFK Jrs. Book

Wow, this maniac appeared with German conspiration theorists, thinking Bill Gates was implanting chips through the vaccination. What a junk...

It's coming..........there are those so blind. At my age, I probably won't live to see it.

From the book...... a synopsis:

As director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), Dr. Anthony Fauci dispenses $6.1 billion in annual taxpayer-provided funding for scientific research, allowing him to dictate the subject, content, and outcome of scientific health research across the globe. Fauci uses the financial clout at his disposal to wield extraordinary influence over hospitals, universities, journals, and thousands of influential doctors and scientists—whose careers and institutions he has the power to ruin, advance, or reward.

During more than a year of painstaking and meticulous research, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. unearthed a shocking story that obliterates media spin on Dr. Fauci . . . and that will alarm every American—Democrat or Republican—who cares about democracy, our Constitution, and the future of our children’s health.

The Real Anthony Fauci reveals how “America’s Doctor” launched his career during the early AIDS crisis by partnering with pharmaceutical companies to sabotage safe and effective off-patent therapeutic treatments for AIDS. Fauci orchestrated fraudulent studies, and then pressured US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulators into approving a deadly chemotherapy treatment he had good reason to know was worthless against AIDS. Fauci repeatedly violated federal laws to allow his Pharma partners to use impoverished and dark-skinned children as lab rats in deadly experiments with toxic AIDS and cancer chemotherapies.

In early 2000, Fauci shook hands with Bill Gates in the library of Gates’ $147 million Seattle mansion, cementing a partnership that would aim to control an increasingly profitable $60 billion global vaccine enterprise with unlimited growth potential. Through funding leverage and carefully cultivated personal relationships with heads of state and leading media and social media institutions, the Pharma-Fauci-Gates alliance exercises dominion over global health policy.

The Real Anthony Fauci details how Fauci, Gates, and their cohorts use their control of media outlets, scientific journals, key government and quasi-governmental agencies, global intelligence agencies, and influential scientists and physicians to flood the public with fearful propaganda about COVID-19 virulence and pathogenesis, and to muzzle debate and ruthlessly censor dissent.

Thanks Chas, I needed a giggle this morning! I was about to move this thread to the bar. I am still on the fence about moving it! You do all know Nigel caught covid back in February last year at his work, temperature of 104 for 11 days, lost 30lbs in 3 weeks, he was off work for 34 days. But as you all know Nigel had several medical issues, Factor V Leiden {blood clots in lungs and legs}, COPD, and his brain had expoded 20 years ago! February 2020 was pre testing, pre vaccines, pre any protocols, but poor Nigel was a long hauler, covid stole the joy out of his life, 5 days before his retirement! If something happened to me, also old, there would be no one to look after our 17 year old deaf and blind cocker spaniel Wally. I'm overly cautious, also still doing temperature checks and only allowing visitors outside my home unfortunately 8 of my friends have died, 42-95, caught from children and grandchildren and now I cannot celebrate my mother's 90th Birthday. Chas you have my utmost sympathy on losing your wife, this roller coaster of emotions sucks!

Still waiting for the predicted disaster from smallpox and polio vaccines to arrive… (Look it up… the same idiocy was touted by the Chicken Little’s when we eradicated those diseases!)

You have to admire the hutzpah of someone who flaunts their meager accomplishments as a reason why their opinion should be valued, while simultaneously ignoring the vastly greater accomplishments of someone they disagree with.

For the record, I never claimed to know the answer. But I’m willing to follow the advice of someone who knows more than anyone else I know (including EVERYONE on this forum!). And certainly not Carlson Tucker!

+10000000

I don't know the answers nor do I claim to however I can read between the lines. We are many years later than when smallpox and polio were prevalent. We know this virus was created in a lab. It's a different time where I believe is more corruption and greed than in the past this is playing into it. Hopefully, you don't believe Jeffery Epstein committed suicide.

This is the last I'll post here on this topic since I know it's like spitting into the wind. We'll agree to disagree.

Even though I'm fully vaccinated, my health, age, and common sense tells me to mostly stay home for now.

To each his own I guess.

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Holidays everyone

"Covid" is not the problem here. I think most of us here know that. My ORIGINAL POST was motivated by my questioning of MYSELF if perhaps I was being a little TOO cautious about holiday family gatherings. Two or three people actually responded to that. The fact is, since the early days of this forum, there have been many posts of a 'social' nature with absolutely no relevance to arranger keyboards. Stories about personal adventures and special events in our lives with no relevance other than we wanted to share them with the internet friends we had cultivated over the years. I don't recall anyone railing about them being 'moved to the BAR' (although they probably should have been) or 'migrating to Facebook' because of them. My point is, this has nothing to do with Covid being an inappropriate subject (especially since it was clearly marked 'OT') and everything to do with politicizing the post (with the inevitable results).

We all know, whether we admit it or not, that there is a strong political divide on this forum clearly deliniated by the people who left the forum for Facebook and those who chose to stay and post. This is not so surprising given the extreme cultural/social/political divide that has infected (yes, INFECTED) the country at this time. Sadly, this includes ordinary citizens, the Congress, and even the Supreme Court. So why would we think that an internet forum would be immune from it. Sure, it would be nice if we could keep this forum 'pure' and free from the intrusions of our everyday lives, but as we can see, that can be difficult (the Keyboard Corner does a pretty good job of it but it's heavily populated by professional musicians).

So I'm saying, you can move this post and posts like it, to the Bar or to the Moon and it won't make a difference to the people that will insist on making it about where you stand on the political spectrum. The last 'Big Migration' has proven that 'The Bar', despite it's good intentions, is still no safe place to post if the 'influencers' decide to react to it negatively.

I sure hope all this bitterness ad division leaves along with the pandemic. Probably won't but we can hope.

chas

Chas, thank you for your commenting on my nice post. As being the loyal opposition, it really bothers me when the elitist display total distain for any opposing attitudes. I don't try to make a big deal of it usually but I find the lies spead by such to be beyond the pale as much as they feel I'm in the wrong. Most disturbing is the constant hype about the Jan insurrection. I watched the peaceful demonstration on my tv. I saw what happened in real time. Like so much of this left right s**t who should I believe? Those that tell me a lie over and over till I finally believe it? Or do I believe what I know is the truth because I saw it or heard it? Dr Fauci has proven to me to be totally wrong about everything he says or does. I have heard the "EXPERT" claim with great authority and the say something different on a following statement. I wonder how do you excuse the blind acceptance of his findings when such is the case?

Well, I hope we can become a model for peaceful and respectful debate. I don't change many minds because I'm pretty firm in my beliefs and the people I find myself debating are usually equally firm in theirs. So I consider it a win to walk away from the debate, still friends, with perhaps a new perspective on a situation.

My first area of disagreement is your characterization of the Jan. 6 insurrection as a "peaceful demonstration". I don't think people show up for a 'peaceful demonstration' with zip ties, hand-held weapons, and body armor calling for the murder of the VP of the United States while defecating on walls and desks. And in fact, 5 people DID die that day as a direct result of that 'peaceful demonstration'. So I'm asking, do you think YOU would have felt safe that day if you were a congressperson (or their staff) in the Capitol that day?

Next, you ask how can I believe Dr. Fauci? As opposed to who, Tucker Carlson? Data and new information on the virus was coming in every day and it was only fitting that instructions on how to cope with the disease would change with each new assessment. Scientific knowledge is constantly being updated. We no longer 'bleed' patients or subject them to electroshock therapy. So far, I have not heard even ONE legitimate medical authority, foreign or domestic, say anything negative about Dr. Fauci. AND, if you look at his detractors, you will notice that they are all of one political stripe. Coincidence?

I am now willing to concede that this post is no longer about how to handle family visits during the holidays, especially in light of this new uptick in the Omnicron variant of the virus.

chas

I fully agree with that chas.
I have never posted on anything other than keyboard / music related subjects but things are getting ridiculous now.
I never thought that political divisions would spill over into SZ like this and it doesn't speak highly of any of us if we allow it to carry on.
I am from the UK and things are very divisive over here but the situation in the USA is even worse than ours.

We should all bear in mind that, whilst we are dividing our countries like this,
the Russians, North Koreans and the Chinese will be having a good laugh at our stupidity and making sure that they are ready to take advantage of it in every way they can.
We already lost respect by the way we left Afghanistan but now,
we need to close ranks and pull together.
If we keyboard players and music lovers can't do that, then there is not much hope of our nations uniting again.

Anthony, I certainly agree with you that the artistic community has historically led the way in terms of positive social change. By all means, let's strive to continue that tradition.

chas