I'm an old fart, 81, and have been using an arranger keyboard for the better part of 40 years, 30 of which were spent on stage as an musical entertainer. Prior to the arranger keyboard, I played a 12-string guitar and performed in various bars and nite clubs, which to be perfectly honest, was the lowest paying job, with lousy hours, where you had to put up with drunks and dense cigarette smoke filling your lungs with every breath you took.

When arranger keyboards came into my life, I considered them the best thing since sliced bread. First and foremost, I no longer had to split the proceeds with 4 other band members. Next, after a fair amount of research, I discovered the senior circuit, which meant no drunks to contend with, much better hours, much higher pay and a nicer audience to perform to. I became a good friend to many of my audience members, attended several of their funerals, and miss them dearly - they were wonderful people.

Over the years, as my musical entertainment business expanded, I performed an average of 10 jobs a week, more when special holiday parties were involved. I could never have done this without the advantages that an arrange keyboard provided. I quickly learned that the variety of onboard and third-party styles available from the older members of this and other forums, produced that variety that solo musicians with a single instrument, mainly a guitar, did not possess, thus there were fortunate to perform just one or two days a week at best. Yes, they were highly skilled musicians, but an arranger keyboard was not designed for them - it was designed with hacks like me in mind. I knew most chord progressions, both on the guitar and keyboard, but I was never professionally trained. I played the chords that I heard, and had a lot of difficulty reading sheet music. I guess it was good enough for my audiences, because they kept inviting me back, week after week, month after month, for more than 30 years, and the pay scale increased throughout that period.

Although health issues, pulmonary fibrosis and distal neuropathy forced me to retire just over three years ago, I still enjoy sitting down at my aged PSR-S950 and learning new songs.I only recorded about a dozen over the past year, mainly songs that Don Mason suggested that I try.

As for this forum not being very active, keep in mind that many of the old, and active, members have passed away. I arrived here looking for help shortly after the forum was created, I got to meet up with many forum members, Diki, Donny Pesce, Ed Shoemaker, Don Mason, Hank Bowman, Randy (saxman), Fran Carango, Uncle Dave, Bob Lee, Jimmy McKinney, Johnny Walker, Helmut Licht, BeBop, AJ, and many others. I learned something from each and every one of them, and considered all as mentors and good friends. Many of those in the list I posted above have passed away. They kept this forum alive and well for many, many years.

While younger musicians may not be attracted to arranger keyboards, they too will grow old, eventually, and I suspect, some will be purchasing an arranger keyboard, and a very small number of highly skilled musicians will take the time to explore this incredible, musical instrument, learn it's incredible features and make some beautiful music as they too slowly, but surely proceed to meet the Grim Reaper.

This was created by a member of another forum I am active on, using a Tyros 5. He also added the video from the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWM_LhFlfQM&t=4s I sincerely believe that the arranger keyboard is here to stay. At least I hope it is.

This was created by my friend in Argentina, Walter and sung by my friend, Susie, in England. Walter is an incredible musician and Susie who is about the same age as myself has an incredible voice. Walter uses a Yamaha S-950, which he currently purchased to upgrade from his S-650. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HchNIZ3rV1g&t=4s

Enjoy,

Gary

I think most of it boils down to musical tastes. An arranger is an exceptional instrument for creating live backing for older genres of music, but to be quite honest, sucks at doing anything remotely modern. Music has moved wholeheartedly into the current taste of triggering clips and loops and arpeggiators, and the concept of the underlying chord harmony has largely gone out the window. To be quite honest, a proper chord recognition system is more a liability than an advantage when you listen to how modern music is composed!

The kids are desperately trying to sound different, and traditional harmony and chord progressions are all so used up that it’s difficult to go down that path without sounding derivative. Hence the move towards backing that doesn’t interpret your played notes and derives a traditional backing, but towards something that plays your trigger notes as is, allowing you far more dissonance and ambiguity.

The loop creation station has also been instrumental in the move towards more static chord and song structures, the nature of laying down a loop to play over pretty much has killed off the idea of more traditional verse, chorus, pre-chorus, bridge, intro and outro structure.

We’re fossils! And expecting much in the way of dinosaur evolution after the asteroid hit is simply a bit too optimistic, IMHO. 😂 We’ve reached as close to the zenith as these arrangers can be taken with little R&D budget available nowadays. But on the positive side, every last modern arranger is capable of extraordinary realism in the hands of the skilled, and conversely, won’t sound significantly better than a ten year old one in less skilled hands.

I think the way forward is to look at combining an arranger with a more contemporary type keyboard like a Krone, or a MODX etc., and trying to integrate the two. The odds of any manufacturer doing that for us in one keyboard is basically zero. Too much work for too little reward. Or look into software and something like a Mac mini or laptop.

But we’re pretty much at endgame with hardware. Sure, Yamaha and Korg will keep trotting out new models every few years (albeit at longer and longer intervals) but if anyone is thinking something radical is in the pipeline, dream on!

As I tried to point out when I rejoined this forum, we’re at a point where the only thing that’s going to make your MUSIC better is you. Not gear. You…. While it’s fun to natter on about the hardware, you want to sound better, start with your playing. Learn your chords properly. Learn your voicings properly. Learn to imitate horns and guitars properly. Learn to play organ with a swell pedal! Turn off the backing and try some proper two handed piano playing. Then crack the manual and finally figure out how to customize your sounds, your backing, your effects etc..

Any of those will help you sound better. Without them, it’s unlikely the next gen arranger will. Tough to take, but the truth. Spending 90% of your time fixating on something that might at best make a 10% improvement isn’t efficient. Time on what you are actually PLAYING makes the difference. Trust me, the machine is already good enough. Until you are playing better than it is, it’s good enough!

In the end, what’s an arranger for? To give you something to fiddle with, or to make MUSIC..? If it’s to make music, shouldn’t that be what we discuss here? 🎹😎

Gary's post sums up how I feel about this.
Young guys will not always be young and young music will change too.
I agree with Diki's view that practise would vastly improve our performance but after saying that the board is not so important, he thinks that buying a ModX would be a good idea. I tthink that this is harking back to professionals looking down their nose at arranger boards.
A good arranger in the hands of a competent amateur can create amazing music and many, like myself, would not be seen dead playing most "modern music".
I have entertained for many years and sent most of my audiences home happy after a good night out and received more than a little praise so a workstation is neither needed or necessary.
Evenings at home can be whatever I wish with a bit of slow swing, catchy latin or romantic movie music.
I am 82 but if Yamaha introduce a Genos 2 or Korg make a style module, I will buy them and enjoy new sounds, new styles or whatever they offer.
In my view, arrangers will be alive as long as I am.

To clarify, I think adding a modern workstation is really only a good move if you ARE trying to cover or create the more modern musics. The arranger we have is quite honestly all we need to cover older genres.

As to a Genos2 or the rumored PA5X or whatever else is coming down the pike, for me at least, I have strong doubts they will add anything that significantly pushes the arranger paradigm forward. And they will be expensive…

Yes, you are going to see a FEW modern WS features added, but nothing like the leap forward for modern music you would get if you simply bought a far less expensive modern WS and added it to your currently more than capable arranger. As I said, we are deep into the realm of diminishing returns….

I’ve never been one for jumping on every new model as they come out. I find that waiting two or three generations, or at least a decade, gives me a feeling that what I spent my hard earned cash on truly IS a huge leap forward rather than just the same ol’, same ol’ with a few new sounds and styles (not nearly as many as we would wish!).

Truth is, using the sampler section of your arranger (when it has one) gets you those new sounds at a fraction of the price, and some work on translated styles, MIDI files and legacy styles assembling new combinations of parts to make new styles gets you fresh backing to play with. So what are you shelling out thousands for? There hasn’t honestly been a significant change to the basic arranger system for decades. You get three or four intros and endings, four variations, four fills. Whoop te doo! Had that twenty years ago!

Enjoy your $5000 Genos2 or whatever else comes out, but honestly, do you think you spent that much and got something you couldn’t get with a bit of work on your current arranger?

IF...you were an accomplished pianist that had bought a great sounding, great playing piano 30 years ago, you would have spent 30 years without ever having experieced the curse of 'gear lust'. You'd also be scratching your head and saying, "What's an Arranger?".

chas

You would have spent 30 years wishing you had your home piano at whatever ragged out club piano you were playing! 😂

Or your great sounding, great playing piano you bought 30 years ago would be sounding like dog doo and playing like hell because you took it on the road with you (and your four roadies!) 🤣

The thread started off simply discussing Korg vs Yamaha styles.
I am not a pianist, accomplished or otherwise so a great sounding piano would do little for me.
In my younger days, raising a family, I didn't have much money to splash out on keyboards and made do with the best I could manage.
After a lot of years working and growing older, I am now more comfortable and, due to my health, I know I don't have a lot of time to have fun so why is "gear lust" so frowned upon?
I know guys who buy a new car twice as often as I buy a keyboard but that's how they like to spend their cash - no problem to me.
I'm sure you guys don't make your cars, sofa's etc last for ever so what's the difference.
Just arranger bashing time again.
The forum is an ARRANGER forum and not for pro's only.

...and there it is; the last-ditch, fall-back argument whenever a painful truth emerges..."The forum is an ARRANGER forum".

Regarding getting old, they always say "the first thing to go is ....." but more and more I'm beginning to think the first thing to go is a sense of humor. Seems like if you're an Arranger enthusiast (and old), there is zero tolerance for ANYTHING perceived as negative, even if it's obviously said in humor. I'm guessing the kids in your neighborhood have learned to stay off your lawn. Unfortunately, we don't live in a world where everything is to your liking. BALANCE is good. Everything on this earth has SOME bad attributes and you probably shouldn't work yourself into a frenzy if someone points one out. The word for today...CHILL.

chas (who doesn't love ANY inanimate object enough to make me hate another human being....well maybe a B3 ).

chas

I am perfectly chilled because, as you admit, this is an "ARRANGER" forum and we were simply discussing Korg & Yamaha styles.
There is a name for ego's who jump into a conversation and change it to a discussion of something else and irrespective of anyone's sense of humour, that's what's happening here.
Anything to say about the subject of the thread "STYLES"?
I also love B3's too

Virtually all threads in forums (Not just SZ) morph over time so hardly surprising this thread is not exactly how it started (It’s just the same when people have face to face discussions).
In this case you mentioned about a separate style player module which is what first started the variance, so you can’t really blame anybody else.
Most on here are oldies, which in the scheme of things means diddly squat.

Bill