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#505495 - 04/18/22 02:12 PM
Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros?
[Re: abacus]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15575
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
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Russ, music has been really good to me, as well. I've always said it was the best job I ever had in my life. All the best, Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!
K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)
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#505499 - 04/19/22 02:19 AM
Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros?
[Re: Diki]
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Member
Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
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Sorry, Gary, but if making money is the sole goal in life, music is a TERRIBLE way of ensuring it. I could have made so much money as a doctor or a lawyer that even a fully booked arranger ‘entertainer’ wouldn’t come close..!
And if you think the ‘musicians’ in your arranger are world class, you’ve never played with one. Sorry to be blunt, but the worst guitarist I know that I would consider a ‘pro’ can play circles round the best arranger in the world. The best of them play circles round me!
I wonder, with money apparently so important, and waiters making so much more than you did playing, how come you didn’t drop playing? Your logic suggests that’s the goal… Or perhaps playing music actually IS more important than money!?!
At any level… 🎹😎 I'm surprised that you are willing to debase yourself by making such big-headed statements. Is there only you who knows what a Pro or world class musician is? Why does Gary or the rest of us not know what a Pro or world class musician is? The definition of Pro is simply someone who earns their living at that particular thing. Why should we have any reason to believe there are any Pro's on this forum who are any better than ourselves. The word Pro is so overused on here by guys who are trying to put themselves up on a pedestal. What is more important in this world is whether someone is a nice guy and Gary is universally acclaimed for that. Apart from on this forum, I have never heard of Abacus, Diki or any of the other "Pro proclaimers" who don't impress me at all. You are entitled to believe that everyone looks down on someone who uses auto-accompaniment if you wish but in reality, that is only your opinions which don't matter at all to the rest of us. This sounds to me as though some of those who proclaim themselves to be Pro's are very insecure and need to bolster their image by pulling others down. Arrangers have auto accompaniment so that anyone who doesn't have access to a band can still play without sounding a bit EMPTY. The guys who play with a band sound just as EMPTY when the band is not there. We all play differently in the same way we all cook a meal differently and no other has the right to say "only my way is right". Why not drop your insecurities and boasting and use the arranger forum to post about arrangers with or without auto accompaniment. If you dislike auto accompaniment so much, you could always go on piano or organ forums where they don't discuss such like. I played organs for many years in pubs & clubs and wish I had a good Hammond in my home at this moment but, I live in a home, not a studio and, I wouldn't be able to take it with me when I go out. I never knew there were such people as instrument snobs with inflated ideas of their own importance.
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#505500 - 04/19/22 06:22 AM
Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros?
[Re: Anthony Johnson]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5375
Loc: English Riviera, UK
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Sorry, Gary, but if making money is the sole goal in life, music is a TERRIBLE way of ensuring it. I could have made so much money as a doctor or a lawyer that even a fully booked arranger ‘entertainer’ wouldn’t come close..!
And if you think the ‘musicians’ in your arranger are world class, you’ve never played with one. Sorry to be blunt, but the worst guitarist I know that I would consider a ‘pro’ can play circles round the best arranger in the world. The best of them play circles round me!
I wonder, with money apparently so important, and waiters making so much more than you did playing, how come you didn’t drop playing? Your logic suggests that’s the goal… Or perhaps playing music actually IS more important than money!?!
At any level… 🎹😎 I'm surprised that you are willing to debase yourself by making such big-headed statements. Is there only you who knows what a Pro or world class musician is? Why does Gary or the rest of us not know what a Pro or world class musician is? The definition of Pro is simply someone who earns their living at that particular thing. Why should we have any reason to believe there are any Pro's on this forum who are any better than ourselves. The word Pro is so overused on here by guys who are trying to put themselves up on a pedestal. What is more important in this world is whether someone is a nice guy and Gary is universally acclaimed for that. Apart from on this forum, I have never heard of Abacus, Diki or any of the other "Pro proclaimers" who don't impress me at all. You are entitled to believe that everyone looks down on someone who uses auto-accompaniment if you wish but in reality, that is only your opinions which don't matter at all to the rest of us. This sounds to me as though some of those who proclaim themselves to be Pro's are very insecure and need to bolster their image by pulling others down. Arrangers have auto accompaniment so that anyone who doesn't have access to a band can still play without sounding a bit EMPTY. The guys who play with a band sound just as EMPTY when the band is not there. We all play differently in the same way we all cook a meal differently and no other has the right to say "only my way is right". Why not drop your insecurities and boasting and use the arranger forum to post about arrangers with or without auto accompaniment. If you dislike auto accompaniment so much, you could always go on piano or organ forums where they don't discuss such like. I played organs for many years in pubs & clubs and wish I had a good Hammond in my home at this moment but, I live in a home, not a studio and, I wouldn't be able to take it with me when I go out. I never knew there were such people as instrument snobs with inflated ideas of their own importance. Hi Anthony Johnson I have never claimed to be a pro so stop claiming otherwise, I am fully a home hobby player who has also been using computers for music since the early 80s. I have met many musicians over time and still keep in touch. Arranger keyboards came from the easy play features of organs where they claimed you could play with just one finger, unfortunately they shot themselves in the foot as the Japanese came in with a keyboard that could be played with one finger in each hand and was smaller and a fraction of the price of an organ plus could be hidden in the cupboard when that quickly became bored with it. (Why learn to play a big organ when you could just press a button and have pretty much everything done for you and hence the demise of the home organ began) Arranger keyboards are and always have been designed for the home hobby player, NOT professional musicians, but just because something was not designed for a particular type of use, does not preclude it from being used in that type of environment, however if you want the best you use the instrument that is best for the job, (If you want a real piano sound use a piano) an arranger keyboard is a jack of all trades and a master of none, that is the fact, if you don’t like it, hard cheese, just suck it up. (Putting it on a pedestal doesn’t make it more than what it is) Here’s a question, how many professional arranger keyboard players in the world do people know about either through radio, TV, recordings and other types of media, then ask yourself how many piano, organ, trumpet, synth players etc. are out there that people know about? (The answer is there are virtually no arranger players that people know about because the instrument is not designed for pros but for the home hobby player) Finally the ones you complain about on here actually answered my question with some great views from many others, and is what makes a forum. Bill
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English Riviera: Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).
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#505503 - 04/19/22 03:34 PM
Re: Why do arranger players suck to pros?
[Re: abacus]
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Member
Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
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A good player will get the best out of their instrument no matter what it is; however there is no reason for a keyboard player to emulate the same as a Sax player etc. as its palette is much greater, (Unless all you want to do is recreate a specific instrument) so you can create your own sound and be individual, (Rather than sounding the same as every other Tom, Dick & Harry out there) so make your own sound (That’s what professional keyboard players do) and become unique rather than trying to make your keyboard sound like something it isn’t. (In the old days you could recognise a player by his style (No matter what keyboard he was playing) but these days with arrangers those that know a small amount about arrangers just say oh that’s a Yamaha or that’s a Korg, with the player being an irrelevance)
Bill Hi Abacus Ths is the post where you started this thread "Why do arranger players suck to pros? Why on earth should you want or need to be writing from the view of a pro when you admit you are not one? Why would you insult and talk so condescendingly to arranger players? Remember, you are not calling the arranger now but the players themselves Why should you spout about how we need to sound as though you are some world class expert. Unlike you, I am not simply a home player and I have entertained in pubs and clubs for many years. My first 2 jobs were playing regular weekends on piano although I wouldn't claim to be a pianist but I was asked to do it. I then moved to organs and have played for many years on those. Since I parted from my last organ job, I let my organ go and bought an arranger keyboard which was meant for home playing but was asked to take it to a pub and finished up taking it to quite a few pubs after that. Upon retiring, I started playing free of charge at the nursing home my Mum was in and more or less turned the place into a social club. After all those years entertaining, why should I be insulted and belittled by you or anyone else by telling me that pro's look down on me because I play an arranger and use auto accompaniment? What has it to do with you or your so called "pro" friends, what I play or how I play it and I speak now for every arranger player. Why do you have such big ego's and why delight in going onto an arranger forum to insult the members who are really nice guys and who are just sharing the love of music. Why not stop being such narcissists and stop trolling, because that's what you are doing. I can probably give you advice but I won't because I am just a musician and an entertainer and I don't have a big ego.
Edited by Anthony Johnson (04/19/22 03:35 PM)
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