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#506108 - 07/07/22 05:34 AM
Re: pax5 vs genos
[Re: dud]
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Member
Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Arbroath,Angus,Scotland
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Problem with most comparisons is that technology advances, just a the comparisons between the Pa4x and Genos. Pa4x used older technology than Genos.
And as I’ve said before what percentage of an Arranger keyboard gets used before moving on to the next great arranger keyboard. How many styles, sounds effects never actually get used.
_________________________
Gem Wk4, Solton Ms60, Technics Kn5000, Korg Pa50sd, Yamaha Psr k1, Tyros 4, Korg Pa700
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#506119 - 07/07/22 02:31 PM
Re: pax5 vs genos
[Re: dud]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14282
Loc: NW Florida
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The game changer with the new Korg is the ability to simultaneously play two different styles, along with the ability to turn on and off individual Parts in each one.
If you think about it, that basically ups your available styles by several orders of magnitude as you mix and match on the fly.
The demos of this feature have been a bit lackluster in my opinion, as few of the demonstrators did much more than select two full styles and mix them together. But the REAL power of this system lies in selecting two styles, then muting certain Parts in each of them, so you get say bass, percussion and electric guitars from one, and the drums, horns and piano from another…
Even with say only a half dozen styles of a very similar groove, that’s hundreds of possibilities all sounding a bit different.
I don’t know the full details of the system yet, but for people that use the arranger section much, you just got gifted thousands (potentially) of new styles. Most arrangers have in the past been able to do this by laboriously importing Divisions from other styles into one ‘Frankenstyle’ in the style editor. But the process was cumbersome and slow, and you couldn’t audition it until you’d done the work.
But this system is so easy to work, no more excuses!
I do think there are a few OS niggles about the system, though. Primarily, you need two hands to start both styles at the same time. This is ridiculous! When would you NOT want both styles in sync??? 🙄 And okay, if on the odd occasion you did, wouldn’t THAT be the function you used two hands for?
Also, so far I haven’t seen if there’s any control over which style’s Intro/outro/fills play. Your odds of finding two styles where they match is slim to none! Some way of prioritizing one or the other is essential.
To be honest, I am a little confused that the two style system hasn’t set the arranger world on fire! 🔥 It is a complete game changer for the arranger world, and opens up exponential growth in available styles. And, as this OP shows, it seems that style fatigue sets in pretty quickly no matter how many you provide! Given that you can create doxens of new styles just by mixing and matching the Parts from two styles and two sets of multipads, style fatigue should be a thing of the past…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#506155 - 07/11/22 03:06 PM
Re: pax5 vs genos
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3230
Loc: Dallas, Texas
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The game changer with the new Korg is the ability to simultaneously play two different styles, along with the ability to turn on and off individual Parts in each one.
If you think about it, that basically ups your available styles by several orders of magnitude as you mix and match on the fly.
The demos of this feature have been a bit lackluster in my opinion, as few of the demonstrators did much more than select two full styles and mix them together. But the REAL power of this system lies in selecting two styles, then muting certain Parts in each of them, so you get say bass, percussion and electric guitars from one, and the drums, horns and piano from another…
Even with say only a half dozen styles of a very similar groove, that’s hundreds of possibilities all sounding a bit different.
I don’t know the full details of the system yet, but for people that use the arranger section much, you just got gifted thousands (potentially) of new styles. Most arrangers have in the past been able to do this by laboriously importing Divisions from other styles into one ‘Frankenstyle’ in the style editor. But the process was cumbersome and slow, and you couldn’t audition it until you’d done the work.
But this system is so easy to work, no more excuses!
I do think there are a few OS niggles about the system, though. Primarily, you need two hands to start both styles at the same time. This is ridiculous! When would you NOT want both styles in sync??? 🙄 And okay, if on the odd occasion you did, wouldn’t THAT be the function you used two hands for?
Also, so far I haven’t seen if there’s any control over which style’s Intro/outro/fills play. Your odds of finding two styles where they match is slim to none! Some way of prioritizing one or the other is essential.
To be honest, I am a little confused that the two style system hasn’t set the arranger world on fire! 🔥 It is a complete game changer for the arranger world, and opens up exponential growth in available styles. And, as this OP shows, it seems that style fatigue sets in pretty quickly no matter how many you provide! Given that you can create doxens of new styles just by mixing and matching the Parts from two styles and two sets of multipads, style fatigue should be a thing of the past… Yes, that sounds very interesting. I know in Latin music, there are all sort hybrid rhythmic styles, for example mixers of cumbia and reggaetón has become popular, yet I can't find any Yamaha keyboard styles that have this mixture. I'm hoping someone can post a video of this feature!
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#506182 - 07/13/22 03:21 PM
Re: pax5 vs genos
[Re: dud]
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Member
Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 615
Loc: Netherlands
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Korg always had a better sound & style editing possibilities and now with the newer computer inside there are a lot new thing you expect of a 2022 keyboard , Usb3, Hdmi , large memory , fast hd screen and a lot more improvements , as a Genos player i hope Yamaha wil also use a better and newer processor and al new state of the art technology in stead of the older they now use in the Genos , I will stay at the Yamaha top arranger , i have made , bought and modified the past 5 years a lot of styles and registrations ( ±800) that are a lot of hours work ( there wasnt a conversion program from the Tyros 5) like there was on earlier Tyros models , despite that it was worth all the effort , Genos is very easy to work with ) if you read the manual and reference guide first. I hope Yamaha takes a good look at the PA5 'i love the case and size' and looking forward to get the Genos 2 in 2023  Soneg 
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#506198 - 07/15/22 01:07 PM
Re: pax5 vs genos
[Re: dud]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14282
Loc: NW Florida
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Both TOTL offerings from Korg and Yamaha come with some unique features that are incredibly useful, hopefully they don’t wait another ten+ years before they become commonplace!
Of particular interest on the Yammie side is that amazing 8 part chord sequencer, the divisi voicing capabilities of Ensemble Mode, the pedal steel ability to bend the third inside the chord (or is it the top note? Still not 100% sure how that works) and of course (although the PA5x has caught up a bit) those 28 freely assignable effects inserts. Stackable inserts is incredibly useful when you have enough of them (think phaser into tape echo into tube amp sim into cabinet sim on guitars!).
I’m reading a laundry list of bugs over at Korgforums, which is probably to be e expected on a brand new OS, and some definitely puzzling omissions (no more making styles from full SMF’s, no more Karma, no more EC5 foot pedal input e.g.) but doubtless the bugs will eventually be fixed (mostly!) but more troubling is the omissions. If there’s one thing Yamaha do well it’s building on products without losing much along the way.
As to running two arrangers in sync, my views on this are well known. Until the main players get together and start to standardize the MIDI codes for general arranger operation, stuff like bass inversion codes, variation and fill selection, etc., trying to do anything more than use one arranger’s sounds as lead while the other plays the style is problematic for even the most technical of users. Yammie are still using sysex to do stuff that Korg (and most others) do with PC/CC codes, hugely complicating running two in tandem.
This is why I find Korg’s simultaneous running of two separate styles so exciting, as it was a technological nightmare to do it with two separate arrangers of different brands…
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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