Hi folks,

I like to do things like transpose, change the bpm, and revoice sounds. and be able to save the changes. I could do this kind of stuff pretty well on my old 950, but I'm having some problems on the SX 900. I'm sure there's some YouTube videos out there, but I haven't found any.... Any suggestions?

Watch these couple of videos

channel edit

Transpose

editing drum channel

With Roland out of the business now, I think it’s time for Yamaha and Korg to take a VERY close look at how Roland’s Makeup Tools simplifies editing styles and SMF’s.

Especially the ease of adjusting drum sounds within a kit and the simple way of adjusting MIDI velocities and volumes per drum sound. Hitting the sweet spot in multi sample drum sounds (drum sounds that use different samples as they are played harder) is the key to great drums, and no two manufacturers (and even no two different arrangers from the same manufacturer) put the switch points at the same velocity. So a style or sequence for one kit rarely transitions across the samples the same way.

You CAN do stuff like this on Korg and Yamaha, but it an incredibly tedious process doing it for each division and even chord type one at a time. Roland made it global, turning something that few attempt into a simple process.

If other manufacturers have copied the Roland Chord Sequencer (and even improved on it), why not this?

Dicky, I agree with you. Roland had a great MIDI editing tool. I think it was called Make up tools. Unfortunately, there is no more Roland and we have to come to terms with that.
At Yamaha, such work can be done on a computer. It may seem complicated to connect the keyboard and the computer, but once you get used to it, it works without any problems. watch the video

Yamaha Midi File (SONG) - editing drum with XG Works

The one problem I have with offloading editing to computers and tablets is, how long will the software be supported? Your arranger will (with care!) still be working and making great music for 20-30+ years, but what are the odds that a) the software will be available, b) it will be updated to run on an 20-30 year newer OS, or c) you can find a working computer or tablet that is 20-30 years old and still working well?

Let’s say you want to sell your arranger after 15-20 years of service. Will the new owner be able to find the software and hardware to be able to do essential editing by then?

Tablets are even worse, with closed ecosystems. There is iPad software for the BK-9 that is no longer available because it was removed from the Apple Store. It stopped being available several years ago, not long after the BK-9 was discontinued… I have a current iPad, and I cannot get it.

Add to that, what are the odds a developer will continue to update a software to run on newer OS’s after the arranger is discontinued and newer ones use a different system? You MIGHT be able to keep an old computer working for 20 years to use the legacy software, but what happens if you sell the arranger? Throw in the computer for free?

I feel that essential editing capabilities MUST be included in the OS of the arranger itself, not left to the vagaries of an extremely volatile computer market.

===like there are still going to be 'Arrangers' around 20-30 yeares from now, much less nerds manually programming them in TODAY'S programming/editing languages on what will then be the equivalent of a Commodore 8. I doubt if you'll feel any pain giving away your computer/museum piece with your 30 yr. old arranger. Plus, who's going to buy it, the Smithsonian? . Given the rapid rate of technological progress, I think it's highly unlikely that any technology based musical instrument today will be relevant/useful 20-30 years from now. Piano tuners, on the other hand, will probably still be able to earn a comfortable living . Also, 20-30 years from now, the only persons owning today's arrangers will be you, Russ, and Fran .

BTW Diki, before you go into full counter-attack mode , I'm just messin' with ya'----sorta'.

chas

I agree, there is always a software update problem. This is especially evident with iPads, which require a new software version.
But on the other hand, the video I posted in the above post describes working with XGWorks, which is over 20 years old. In fact, it stopped development in 2002 and can still be installed on Win10/11 without problems. The interface is not modern, the icons are small, but it still has no equal in the segment of editing Yamaha's XG information.

I also often use Cakewalk by BandLab. It is free, reviewed, but it does not contain any tools that are specific to the XG protocol.

Genos Style recording in Cakewalk - create MIDI file

Hi,
I still use xg works too. Possibly closer to 25 years old haha. Brilliant old program.
The only way I could get it to work was to copy the folder of a working version of the program from my xp computer to a usb drive and run it from that. I could never get it to install on my win7 laptop, so never bothered trying to install it on win 10 either. I just run it off the usb drive. Good enough for the editing I do.

(I’ll have to check out your video’s)

Just copy the contents of XGWorks from USB to PC (Win 10) and run the exe file. The program works without problems.

@chas

B3 is getting pretty old too! Worth more than when it first came out! Wish I had held onto some of my old analogs, that Odyssey might buy me a car!

It seems difficult to predict what’s going to appreciate and what’s going to end up valueless, a lot depends on what future generations decide us ‘cool’ long after those that used it moved on to newer tech…

But even personally, I have got close to 15+ years out of each of my primary gigging arrangers, and plan on running the BK-9 until I pass on. And, if I sold my G70, I’d prefer to not have to give away an aging computer at the same time just so the new owner can edit styles!

I know you’re just joshing, but as times get tighter, fewer and fewer of us fossils that still use arrangers can afford to drop huge bucks on the latest tech, and the odds of anything in the far future being any good at the genres we like to play is slim. We all better start taking really good care of them, first Roland bail, I wonder who’s next? My money’s on Korg if the PA5x’s bugs don’t get squashed pretty quickly. Few pros are buying them if they can’t gig with them as is.

More and more, arrangers are complete rubbish doing modern genres, and way overpriced compared to things like the MODX+ etc.. The final days of the home organ market comes to mind watching what is happening to arrangers.

Good advice Diki, I too can see the writing on the wall. I am sure you are correct in saying, in essence, that our arrangers are as good as it is going to get, owing to the fact that the future customers will not be looking to buy what we considered improvements. There will be incremental goodies thrown in, but I don't think enough to tempt me.

And me Chas, if I live that long. Haha

Thanks Leon, might do that. Now all I have to do is find that font that makes the notation work correctly again. I ran it for years with weird notation till I came across a post on the psr tutorial site. It was so great to have it working correctly again.

Hi Diki, who could possibly predict what is going to go up in value and what isn’t. Doubt arrangers would would be one of them. Haha.

Suppose the companies are in between a rock and a hard place, the fossils don’t want the modern type styles and the younger generation don’t want the oldies type styles.

Shame what’s happening with the PA5x, doesn’t sound like they’re going to have a fix till round Xmas. Even then , not sure if it’s going to have all the same functions the Pa4x had. I was going to buy one sight unseen,as I had with all my previous Korg arrangers, and they never disappointed. Just assumed it was going to be an upgraded version of a Pa4x, but maybe not the case.. Was about to order one when I discovered I had a health problem, so decided to wait till that gets sorted . And wow, have they ever jumped up in price. Debating now whether it’s worth it.

Hi Leon,
are you Casper TutorSynth?

Yes, I'm Casper. The nicknames are different because I signed up for this forum way back in 2003 when YouTube didn't even exist.
Leon is my real name.

I agree that it’s probably unlikely that any arranger is going to become a valued classic 30 years from now. But then again, I didn’t think that an 808 was going to be worth thousands when everybody got rid of theirs to get LinnDrums or DMX’s or Drumulators!

I didn’t think 2600’s or Minimoog’s would be worth a fortune when we got our OBXa’s and Prophet’s which could play chords!

But young players found new styles of music using those old fossils that were going for next to nothing, turned them back into highly prized gear when the new styles became global hits.

Who knows what a talented kid might be able to squeeze out of an abandoned PA4X years from now? I know few of us squeeze much out of it other than what’s on the surface… We tend to want our innovation to come from the next model, and the next, and the next. But talented broke kids make their innovation themselves with the cheap used gear we discard in our race to move on to the latest thing.

I look forward to hearing what some kid out of Delhi or Riyadh will do with an abandoned old arranger. It might be amazing! 🎹😎

And I have said for decades that the arranger has no future until there is no such thing as ROM styles. No fossil like us is going to buy a keyboard packed with triphop and deep house styles, and no kid is going to buy a keyboard with cha-cha’s and waltzes.

The front panel should be unlabeled, and curated ‘collections’ of styles loaded in by the salesman appropriate to the age of the customer. Remember the Rapman? A simple arranger, but only containing rap and hiphop styles. Sold like hotcakes. Arranger industry didn’t learn a damn thing…

Hi Diki, couldn’t agree more. How great it would be if you could pick the genre of the styles you want and be loaded in as collections. Don’t know why they have this one size fits all attitude.
Don’t know the Rapman, sounds like someone had a good idea.

Hi Leon , found your channel a little while back, hope to explore further when I’m feeling a bit better. I’ve always been a Korg arranger fan, loved the style editing/creation tools on the korgs, just needed my Korg and xgworks, but starting to realise how much editing is possible on Yamaha’s too, just requires extra software.
Your video clips will help a lot.

Hi Diki, I wish you a speedy recovery and I hope you will find my videos interesting.

I think he meant 'Rikki', Diki doesn't watch videos .

chas

Thanks for the well wishes! I’ll take them even when nothing’s wrong and they’re intended for someone else! I’ll just bank them until needed, LOL 😂

The truth is, other than some front panel labeling, most modern arrangers already COULD organize the styles how you want by doing away with the ROM presets. Korg’s can already completely overwrite the factory styles. And you select them from a touch screen, so there is no front panel labels to alienate the kids.

The rest could do away with labeled genre groups, and turn the ROM section to a non-volatile RAM selection.

But put a 20 year old in front of a keyboard that has a big button on it labeled ‘Ballroom’, you just lost a sale!

If the arranger industry wants to survive, it is going to have to make arrangers look like something NOT designed specifically for 50+ year old players..!

Thanks for the remark, I wrote it wrong.
It should say Rikki.

Thank you Leon