There have been a gazillion proclamations over the years (and as recently as a couple days ago) that arrangers can't do 'modern' music; that you really need a synth/workstation to produce the styles that are relevant for young people today. Why? Supposedly because workstations have super features that arrangers are traditionally 'weak' in, such as Sampling and sophisticated arpeggiation, etc. Arrangers, on the other hand (and to their detriment), are loaded with styles that make young people instantly barf uncontrollably and stab themselves.

But here's the thing. How many of us like to sometimes forego that Pizza shop, Steak house, hamburger joint, etc. for one of those super duper BUFFFET joints--you know, the ones where everything is mediocre BUT the variety is endless. THIS is where we're most likely to stuff ourselves into a state of bloated ecstasy. My point is.....

A keyboard is nothing but a plank with a built-in computer and a bunch of knobs, buttons, and sliders to control it with...oh,and also some keys which are becoming less and less important. The Arranger has STYLES that are loved by old folks and hated by young folks; the Workstations have NO STYLES, which is hated by old folks and apparently revered by young folks (as it releases their 'creativity' and better helps them to make crappy music ). In this day and age where gigs and gigs of memory is available and dirt cheap, why on earth can't every single desirable feature from each (arranger and workstation) be incorporated into a single instrument. And...so as not to turn ANYONE off, we won't call it an Arranger OR a Workstation; maybe call it a Gizmo or something. Sell it under the mantra "WE DO IT ALL so you don't have to".

I know someone else has thought of this but WHERE IS IT? Better hop on it Diki, you could be the next Elon Musk-et.

chas

A sedan is great on the road but crap off road, a jeep is great off road but crap on road.
Can the 2 be combined, yes (Mostly) but the price goes through the roof.
A Workstation is cheap and an arranger is expensive (Like for like) and people moan about them being too expensive, so the market for the 2 combined is virtually zilch and thus unprofitable for the manufactures.

Bill

I hear you Bill, but I think your sedan/jeep analogy may be a false equivalency. There's no reason the hybrid I'm proposing would not be able to have all the functionality of either (workstation or arranger). Other than cost (and I agree, that baby's going to be expensive) there shouldn't be any other limitations. Give it a 20 yr. warranty and Diki will buy one . Seriously, isn't it mostly about the software?

Another idea; sell it sans software and let the buyer select their own software package from a number of pre-programmed packages. That way the young guy can select the workstation package and just replace it with the arranger package once he gets old (and hard of hearing). I think it could work.

chas

I think the combo gizmo already exists, but it’s really in software alone, which basically alienates most of us fossils.

So far in hardware, the few arrangers that do have arpeggiators tend to have ones that are quite rudimentary compared to hardware workstations and Stone Age compared to software offerings. They also lag badly in clip launch capabilities (possibly the new PA5x’s pads can be expanded in their use, but for now they are no substitute for a Maschine or the like).

In fairness, the PA5x’s form factor is pretty close to what a combo gizmo would need, but the software isn’t there yet.

Then there’s the synthesis section, once again, arrangers are getting a bit closer, but the plethora of options like expanded FM, wavetable and virtual analog synthesis types just isn’t there.

But, bottom line, I think there’s so little demand for a keyboard that excels in the latest synth styles AND ballroom or 50’s/60’s rock and roll, no hardware manufacturer would break even on the task. Nor is there likely a venue that wants a musician to cover it all!

My take would be simply plead with arranger manufacturers to ensure that EVERY knob, button, slider and controller be allowed to send user definable MIDI codes, then hook up to something like a MacMini to handle the modern stuff.

But a combo gizmo? Korg are trying, but seem to have missed the bus so far with the costly PA5X. Perhaps some software updates can get it closer, and at least get it to the point where it isn’t a minefield of bugs on stage, but I doubt the hardware even if fixed could pull off the full combo package. There’s a lot of computer horsepower being used to tempo and key sync a whole bunch of different clips and loops in something like Maschine. I have my doubts the PA5 could pull something like that off AND run a full dual style arranger engine at the same time.

But fire up your current arranger and USB/MIDI it to something like Omnisphere running on a laptop or Mac Mini, plug a Maschine type pad bank into it, there’s your gizmo… 🎹😎

Hi, tend to think if I was into modern music, I’d be inclined to go down the computer/ software route. There is so much software out there, hardest part would be choosing what to get.A controller keyboard and laptop and I think I’d be pretty much set. If only I was 40 to 50 years younger. Haha.

On the other hand, being a bit of a fossil, I prefer my Latin , ballroom, Jazz type styles etc . Stuck in a time warp 40’s 50’s standards, along with some slightly newer ballads.
Haven’t found the computer/software route, particularly successful as far as arrangers go. VArranger is the best I’ve tried, but nothing beats pressing the ON button, on an arranger keyboard and you’re ready to go.

PA4x catered a bit more towards modern music, those functions I never used. Maybe with the PA5x I would be paying for functions I would never use, and hopefully not at the expense of functions I do use, have to wait and see when the update arrives. Meanwhile, till I find out more, I’m sitting on the fence.
Might get myself a nice new Clavinova arranger piano instead, determined to spend some of the kids inheritance. Haha

I feel the same as Rikki

Hi Bernie, how are you. Notice you haven’t been tempted to sell the Pa4x ( yet).

I think that it’s quite likely there isn’t anyone on this forum that has a clue about how modern music is made, the tools and techniques, and I think I’m pretty sure we don’t have many here that have even heard of Darkstep and Triphop, let alone name any artists that work in that genre…

I know I don’t. 🎹😂

Hi Diki,
you’re probably right, doubt we’d have any members that are into the modern music.

Be fascinating though if one enjoyed it.

I loved the 80’s and 90’s and the midi revolution, and the way the synths, samplers and keyboards evolved over those many years. Probably should have spent more time actually learning to play, but, I was hooked on the technology.

If I was 40 /50 years younger, I’d be out there learning all about it again.

Oh, the good old days.

I think our music, particularly music from the early days of synths, was shaped by the tools that made it. The instruments and the early days of computer editing itself, with all the limitations of each thing, sort of shaped what was played on them.

The same thing has happed with the computer generated stuff of today, it’s limitations (or more often than not, it’s lack of limitations!) help define the music made on it.

Truth is, very little of today’s electronic music uses a keyboard at all. A pad bank, some knobs and sliders, a mouse a monitor, couple of speakers... Okay, maybe the artist got some two octave MIDI controller keyboard if he ever played a piano as a kid, but electronica just isn’t the place you go for keyboard virtuosity!

The gizmo is a great idea for us, but honestly of little value to the electronica kids. They already got what they need, a hell of a sight cheaper than a TOTL arranger, and a big old 76 that actually needs you to know how to finger chords and play in time ain’t much use to a dubstep producer. Remember, that’s how they define themselves, not as keyboard players. Producers.

Any of us old fossils that maybe want to play in that sandbox, I think we should use the stuff the pros use, with the additional benefit of being much cheaper than any arranger that had a decent workstation included. 🎹😎