Playing around with my SEVEN (DX7 preset) and trying to see if I could make strings and organ work without stepping on each other. Tune is an old favorite of mine, New York State of Mind (in case John C doesn't recognize it ) and just standard chords (even a Ketron could do it ). I like funky jazz organ, funky rock, funky R&B...the keyword for me is FUNKY. I tend to play lead lines like I would sing it IF I COULD SING . I liked the sound of the SEVEN'S DX7 so I thought I'd post it (despite a couple of bloopers - if you can't spot them, ask Diki, I'm sure he can point them out for you ). JUST KIDDING Diki, I'd be disappointed if you didn't . Anyhoo---

https://app.box.com/s/md0rz439b1gqrpgc2omukpw4l1tnshid

chas

Great playing. I would of liked to hear some of your "Funky Hammond " in there Good job !

Thanks Bill. I play most of my organ stuff on my KeyB which is in my 'rehearsal' room. In my 'studio' I have a Legend Exp midied to a Nord C1 (PERFECT controller for this module). It's not as 'good' as my KeyB (KeyB is 'ballsier', more playable, has pedals, etc.) but good enough for subtle organ background parts. Older, lazier, more arthritic; I record the KeyB only when it's an organ-oriented piece these days. Recent blood tests showed elevated 'Rheumatoids' and it's starting to show in my hands, specifically the middle finger of my right hand (as a Philly sports fan, that's especially terrible ).

chas

Now THAT’S funny!

Mind you, with the Eagles at 6-0, doesn’t look like you need that digit this year!

Good one. Philly fans definitely have a reputation. Sorry about the Rheumatism, gettin old sucks !

So TASTY!

Made my afternoon. Sure beats the car parts commercial I'm doing all Sunday afternoon.

Russ

In short, I just plain loved it, chord change at about 3:44 an all. lol

Bernie

Bernie, don't you dare make fun of my disability. We're all entitled to at least 2 or 3 'senior moments' per tune . Actually, that's a good sign the tune is too long . BTW, haven't seen any new videos from you lately. Get back to work .

chas

Aye Aye captain lol

I have had a few health issues, but fine now. Thanks Chas

Really enjoyed your arrangement.

I guess I hate to disappoint! Listened to this when first posted, and loved the playing, and of course the song. Billy always managed, at least in his earlier days, to avoid sounding West Coast, and really helped define that New York approach to the arrangements. There’s no way this song would have sounded like this in Hollywood!

But, you want constructive criticism, I have to admit I had a hard time getting past that drum groove. I don’t know what you used, but for me it sounds a bit stiff and too out front in many places. What YOU played was wonderful (warts an’ all!), but your drummer let you down…

Perhaps just shoving it back in the mix, and maybe wetting it up a bit might be the simple fix, but there are definitely times when I was hearing quarters on a ride rather than that eighth hi hat, maybe a looser slow ballad type style…

But you made me reach down deep to find anything to fault, Chas! Lovely playing, lovely song.. ♥️

By the way, I used to live on 52nd St in Manhattan back in the day. So appropriate!

Appreciate the constructive criticism, Diki. I have to confess, I didn't mix it AT ALL (pure laziness) or even process any of the tracks (I may have lowered the strings a bit while I was still tracking). I DO realize that even with a live drummer, you need to do SOME processing of the drum track, but when you're just messing around in the studio with no intention of doing anything with the mix and mainly focusing on the strings/organ mix, you tend to be a little sloppy with the other tracks, especially the drums. Truth is, I never paid much attention to drum tracks anyway, unless it was a rhythm oriented tune and drums were a key part of it. Organ players kind of do their own rhythm thing anyway. In any case, in the future I'll pay more attention to the drums and how they sit in the mix, so thanks for that.

chas

Great arrangement, and everything seemed to flow perfectly without one sound stepping on the other.

All the best,

Gary

Thanks Gary and Scameron. Like Diki, I always loved that tune but didn't want to do a Billy Joel 'sound alike' (I wish ). Bernie, glad you got those health issues sorted out. Sadly, I seem to be going in the opposite direction; heart, lungs, joints, prostate; you know, all the things that say 'you've been here too long'. I think I'm even too late for cryogenics 'cause I wouldn't want to wake up like this in the future . Oh well....

chas

Great flow with the RH, Chas. I’d personally like to hear funk shuffle drum part, something like Bernard Purdie played on Steely Dans” Babylon Sisters” .

Here’s some study material. Dig his swing!

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/Uloxes4r1IA[/video]

You didn’t say what did the drums, chas, but next time you want to noodle, try that BK7M of yours again. On the whole, the drums flow pretty well, the fills usually work pretty well, and if you have an FC7 (or a MIDI foot controller) you can easily move from variation to variation with fills (or without) hands free…

Thanks for the comments, glad you took it all positively (the way it was meant!). As a long time band player, I’ve always leaned pretty heavily on getting my groove from the drummer. One thing I learned was, even when the drummer is wrong, it’s almost impossible to fight it, so when playing with machines, the drums are right or EVERYTHING is wrong!

As I’ve said many times, treat the backing as if it’s as important as you… Because it is! Music is the sum of its parts. If one of them is weak, it drags everything down. And who wants to be dragged down by a machine?! 😎🎹

Yeah, love that groove. Plus, that's one of the great tunes of that era. However, it would give a totally different vibe to that tune (IMO), not necessarily bad, maybe even great, I just never thought of playing it that way. BTW, luv 'Pretty' Purdie - he sort of brought the funk to rock .

chas

Diki, I use the BK7m all the time, but mainly for practicing or rehearsing with the 'ol' farts group' when we don't have a drummer. But it's all hooked up in my rehearsal room and so not convenient to record with. I'll use it if it has a drum style I really want to use but usually I'll just build a track from one of the three computer drum programs I have. I just piece the parts together as I hum the tune in my head. Very easy since I tend to use very simple drum tracks, plus-they're super easy to edit. But again, when I'm just playing around for fun, I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to produce a pro studio masterpiece. I probably haven't made myself clear, but at this stage of my life, I'm much more interested in making the music than making the recording, and if a few people like it, I'm not going to spend a lot of time trying to get them to like it more. I understand (and respect) your penchant for making things as perfect as possible, but I've reached an age and stage where, for me, an ounce of soul is more important than a pound of technology (not that you can't have both - if it's that important to you).

I do appreciate the feedback though, as it definitely makes me more cognizant of what I'm doing, even on throw-away recordings. BTW, I only record stuff so I can experiment with arrangements. Thank goodness multi-tracking is so easy these days.

chas

So, which computer programs are you using, chas?

On the whole, I tend to find computer programs a lot fiddlier than the arranger’s nice simple ‘4 variations and some fills’ when just jamming. I must admit, until the drums get my juices flowing, I find it hard to be soulful while I’m being distracted. I have never been at my best playing to a click.

It’s not for me a case of making it perfect in post, I’d just like that energy up front before I even start to create..! It’s a lot easier to adapt your ‘inside’ pulse to a nice groove than to adapt the loop or drum machine to match how you played in the first place. A real drummer can listen to you and ‘get it’ straight away, but the bloody machines are morons! 😂

Diki, people are different. What works for you isn't necessarily the best approach for everyone else. What YOU think is more difficiult, I may find more intuitive. Does that mean I should abandon MY approach and adopt YOURS. Of the 20 odd years I've been on this forum, I don't recall ANYONE ever trying to tell YOU how to do something. Let's take your statement " I have never been at my best playing to a click", yet pro musicians do it all the time - probably wouldn't get a studio call if they couldn't. BUT, I don't consider playing to a fully developed drum track the same as playing to a 'click' or click track. In fact, to me playing to a drum track that I developed from a conputer program is exactly like playing to a physical drum machine (or BK7m) live. In fact it's easier for me since I constructed it and don't have to worry about triggering breaks, etc. in real time. Sure, I would always prefer to play with a GOOD drummer where we'd rehearsed the tune several times but that's a different story. I'll just say, you do what works for YOU and I'll do what works for me. That way, good or bad, it's our own creation.

On the drum machines, aside from the BK7m I have often (in the past) used drum tracks from one of my arrangers (usually the PA1x pro) or one of several drum programs (Drumbit, Beat Factory, MDrummer, and MT Power Drum Kit 2). Even though it's a freebie, I use MT Power Drum Kit 2 a lot because it's so easy to use and the sounds are just fine for the type of music I play.

chas

This was your original reaction chas. Not really sure what turned it around into a diatribe against constructive criticism.

Let me address a couple of things you just said. Studio musicians rarely play to the click with no drums at all. The drummer plays to the click, the rest (if being tracked at the same time) monitor the drummer. Maybe the drummer and the click. But I’ve never had a pro call with just a click unless the track wasn’t going to have any drums. I can play just fine to a click alone, but like most musicians, it’s not our BEST. Context is everything. It’s the stuff inside the click that sets the groove. Have YOU ever done a pro session where you played to a click before they brought the drummer in?

At home, it’s a different story. Sure, you can play to a barebones placeholder drum beat, but it gets very difficult to find a beat after the fact that exactly matches your inside groove, as it’s likely to drift a bit if there’s no inside stuff with the beat. All I was bringing up is, whether with the BK or software, a groove that really works with how you want to play saves you either a lot of work after the fact, or forces you to post it as is. I’m just trying to help by pointing out that a little extra work before the fact (and, to be honest, I find the BK drums usually adequate with zero work at all) is worth the effort.

Perhaps no one has told me how to make my demos because I actually do this tiny bit of work to start with… and anyone that feels like there’s something that could be improved, I’m all too happy to try it and see. I don’t take criticism personally, and I’m not invested in one workflow or path to a good recording.

Apparently, the taunt to me at the start of this thread to find something to criticize was not serious. My apologies for misunderstanding its satirical bent. I guarantee, you will receive no more.

So how many 'smiley face' emoji's does it take before someone recognizes when a taunt is not a taunt?

chas