For clarification purposes, this is going to be a long video that answers a lot of questions and doubts that have been raised about the KETRON EVENT lately, so grab some pop corn, sit back, and enjy.


Questions and doubts cleared about the new KETRON EVENT:- https://youtu.be/dULXT00bnJM

I just finished watching this video from start to finish. thanks for posting this!

I also watched the video of that guy from Dynamix giving his feedback and comparison to the Medeli, its all very interesting.

I think one thing we can all agree on is - Social media is everything these days - his video just like your tutorial videos are all "Social media"... you make claims and observations, and so does everyone else over social media platforms.

I want to give my feedback here as food for thought...

I understand alot of vendors (and not just Keyboard / synth companies) are always trying to "simplify" things by reducing buttons on devices. Because in some cases - alot of buttons comes across to some people as daunting or "complex"... But in all essence, there is a lot of basic staple arranger functionality that needs a dedicated physical button, it just cant be replaced by a menu configuration or a "soft button"...

I think about arranger keyboards and other technology like this: how much can you achieve before needing to read the manual or watch hours of tutorial videos? sure you need a manual to go beyond the surface and deep dive to get into the nuts and bolts, but for an arranger keyboard with a large colour touch screen it shouldn't really be necessary.

Here are some examples:

The method you showed of switching from Arranger mode to solo voice (full keyboard) mode is absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine trying to do all that on the fly while performing?

Sometimes while the arranger is playing I like to press 1 button (accomp) which immediately turns off tracks 3-8 for the base and accomp so all you hear are the 2 drum tracks that keep looping. then press the button again to bring them all back in. From what I can see - the most efficient way (on the fly) this can be achieved with the EVENT is to use the sliders to mute the 6 channels?... perhaps you have a way of programming this in the menu, but again what's wrong with having a dedicated button for such a staple feature? other brands have these buttons for a reason...

Another thing - you showed that you can have a row of soft buttons on the bottom of the screen for basic arranger functions like variations, fills, intros end endings - when you are playing live and you are trying to hit fills or switch functions in time, the touch screen doesn't always read your input unless you press it perfectly... And then if its a miss - you have missed a fill-in or a que for the next variation screwing up your performance. this happens to me on some korg keyboards where you need to press the track on the touch screen that you want to mute, and unmute etc...

I must say this keyboard is one of the most menu driven systems I have ever seen on any keyboard, probably even more than on my BK9 - which is a nightmare (death by scroll wheel!!)

You address the page up page down issue by saying you can assign 2 of the 7 assignable function (soft) buttons to these features... Now I am sure than any person that buys this keyboard will immediately want to set that up before anything else... so really you need to sacrifice 2 of the assignable soft buttons straight away for a basic function that simply should be there in the OS... hopefully something that can easily be addressed with an OS update??

Audio latency. you addressed this by saying that audio requires processing power / memory etc... so why not give the machine the right power it needs then?

Yamaha dabbled with audio styles for a little while (fair enough it wasn't as deep as Ketron) but still - no issues there with latency whatsoever.

You then mentioned that you can essentially go levels below to be on par with other arranger keyboards by using Midi styles to remove latency (as opposed to the real and live styles)... Lets be honest - the main hook to these Ketron boards is the Sound quality which comes from your AUDIO styles! To have latency on your flagship audio styles and use the fallback of "we are comparing to midi" doesn't sit well... it needs to be done right!

You made a lot of claims about how Ketron is next next level above the competition etc - but really in terms of the usability / interface it is not really ahead by any means. It pains me even thinking about trying to use that machine in a live situation.

Your points are well noted and so are your suggestions (most of which can be addressed with Registrations, Performance or 1 button - programmed or assigned to the tasks at hand).

I only have 2 questions to ask. You watched both videos at length and sated above that "I think one thing we can all agree on is - Social media is everything these days - his video just like your tutorial videos are all "Social media"... you make claims and observations, and so does everyone else over social media platforms."

1. What claims did I make which I was not able to illustrate on the instrument as a fact?

2. What claims did he make which have been proven not to be true?

Thanks,

AJ

Funny (...) to see that no one complains about the price of the PA5X 76 in relation to its bugs and its complexity...
and that the majority of criticisms come from people who do not know Ketron brand and have not tested EVENT (or another Ketron kb) in real life...

just have a look at Bartłomiej Krzemiński videos; he owns other kbs too… but doesn’t seem to have problem with his Event.
On Psrtutorial, everyday brings false info: one user keeps saying there is no registration button on EVENT...

About complexity and usability, keep in mind
1 once you save your registration, you load it with ALL the environment necessary to play easily and smoothly,
as you prepared it before … and recalling it needs just typing two or three numbers.
2 the footswitch (ie FS13, not available on other brands) puts at your toetips 'buttons' not available on the kb (neither on other brands) ;
see user manual page 159: not new since Audya…

As for Ketron users, they keep waiting their Event kb : they already knew that bashing experience when Audya came out.
I will never say Korg or Yamaha are not good but, given what I know and have seen (videos and mainly real life)
about Tyros, Genos, PA4X, I know, despite their respective qualities, the ‘environment and philosophy’ is too different from what I am used to

When you use a brand for years (Yamaha, Korg), it is not easy understand another ...; same for Apple ... or cars...
even less when you don’t own one model of this other brand and never tested it personally…
Ketron is a little brand and can’t pay for talented demonstrators showing what few user will be able to do;
but Ketron users know … for years. To each user his needs…

Hope I am not dumb nor ridiculous...

I think you make a lot of sense. We all know that there are minuses and pluses with all keyboards, and navigation is important. However, there are workarounds like registrations that streamline and do away with button pushes. I also agree that there is a certain amount of hype in all presentations, and the real goal in making a decision is separating the wheat from the chaff.

I have owned most all keyboards in the last forty years, including Ketron Audya and others, and have waited until the bugs are ironed out. In all fairness, I must say that my Audya and SD40 have been and are trouble free and among the best I have ever owned.

Ill start with question 2:
2. What claims did he make which have been proven not to be true?
Yes you have definitely addressed every concern by giving a method to achieve what he claims is "missing". I am merely giving my feedback stating that the "method" of achieving most of the staple standard arranger functions are tedious and counter productive.

My real point to most of what I said above was not to say - it cant be done on the EVENT, I just think that the overall control and interface design puts a shadow over such a beautiful machine.

Its just a shame - there is so much real estate on the keyboard yet the buttons and controllers you have decided to include are all squashed together where they could be laid out more intuitively over the keyboard for ease of operation (and understanding). and of course -there could definitely have been more buttons. (think of the Roland EA-7) at a glance it looks like a nightmare - but it is in fact one of the easiest arrangers to pick up and use.


Now to answer #1 -
you asked me to provide examples of your "claims"... Ide rather not go down a tit for tat scenario but since you asked

35:25 "I just downnn graded the EVENT to a Midi Arranger just like any other midi arranger out there"

hmmmmm given that ALL your competitor products are Midi Arrangers is basically giving off the impression or "claiming" superiority. Although Midi styles may sound inferior to audio, it has a lot of benefits over the audio styles (for example - editability) so its not reallllly a downgrade...

36:00 "Ketron as an example leaping years ahead of other arranger manufacturers". ehhh maybe in the audio style department but same could be said from other brands about some of the features and sounds in their keyboards too... its a very subjective area...

37:02 "There's a reason why people are always trying to compete or compare or try to sound like an EVENT"... who is??

Keyboard players are always on the hunt for the best sound no matter what - whether its through sampling, editing / sound creation or chasing the latest and hottest gear.

It all depends on what style or genre of music you are playing as well - not to mention how easy and intuitive the machine is to operate... I could probably guarantee you that If I had an EVENT or any other Ketron Product I would be trying to add and improve the sounds and styles of its EDM / Synth Department... does that mean I'm trying to make the EVENT sound like a Korg or Yamaha? (I remember When I owned the Audya5 it was total lack luster in that category for synth, EDM, Trance etc).

By the way - in no way am I stating that other brands are perfect - not by any means! In fact I have a huge list of issues and bug bears with Yamaha Korg and also Roland keyboards. I only wish that other manufacturer designers and product specialists posted here so I/we could give constructive feedback to them - publicly!

Unfortunately you seem to be one of the only reps that is regularly active on SZ to be available to take the heat

To Bernie

'They' may say we are dreamers ... imagine .... but we are not the only ones! Some ones will join us !
Anyhow, as a little brand, Ketron can't produce by hundreds...
Endless and useless battle!
What if Ketron users went on other brands topics to criticize and show what they can do easier or don't exist elsewhere?
Ha ok.... they have no time for that: they prefer playing on their kb as they are satisfied with it!

Video well done AJ 😊👍

Thanks. More coming ....

I still hate the ‘mine is better than yours’ that permeates forums like this one.

I will, and have (!) criticized the flaws in my own keyboard as often as I do others. We are not representatives of any brand (other than AJ), we are CUSTOMERS. Our job is to expose whatever flaws we find in whatever and all arrangers, in the hope (seldom achieved) of encouraging each manufacturer to fix and improve the breed as a whole.

Each of us needs to find the one arranger that suits us best, but also to realize that everybody else probably isn’t using their arranger the EXACT same way we are. Their needs, if they understand them well enough, are most likely different from us. The brand we choose will often not be right for others.

And reviews that expose flaws, bugs, and non-standard ways of achieving arranger play are NOT ‘bashing’, they are the best thing to have here. The collapse of brick and mortar stores has reduced us all to buying without trying (or at least buying then paying a hefty restocking fee if we don’t like it). The last thing we need is reviewers getting called ‘fanboys’ if they write a review that contradicts your desires!

Personally, an arranger review from someone coming from another brand is about the best possible way of learning about a new piece of gear. Let’s face it, that’s what most of us do… leave one brand for another now that the new model cycle has bumped up to five years or more with most brands. Let’s hear what hoops and adjustments making that move is likely to do to us!

And yes, while there may be workarounds most cross-brand migration, they may not be obvious to early reviewers. How practical some of those workarounds are is up to the customer to decide, not the seller! I had to make some SERIOUS changes in my workflow just going from the G70 to the BK9, and that was the same brand! Some of them still aren’t quite as good as the original method…

But the other side of the coin was, took me a while, but some things turned out to be FAR better once I learned to adapt to the new method. An early reviewer may not stumble across the new way with a limited hands-on…

Just don’t forget. You don’t work for Yamaha or Korg. You probably don’t own stock in them. To my knowledge, AJ is the only person here with any connection whatsoever with a manufacturer or distributor. So get off your high horses, and embrace criticism and debate! It’s the only damn way any of us is going to find out anything other than what the manufacturers want us to know…

The devil is in the details. Let the devil speak..! 🎹

describing a real default is ok and submitting to the factory is the right way to improve hard or soft

criticize what someone THINK or GUESS is different: many things said are supposed or false, even by Event owners who have not read the manual or are not used to Ketron...
Wjth my Audya, once I load a registration, I never (scarcely) hit any button while playing as any usual or useful function is at a toetip (fill, break, variation, voice, snare, transpose,.., see manual)...

I forgive ... better wait for my Event.. My brother Genos is a very good kb but doesn't attract me, neither did the SD9
PA5X and Genos are very good kb but Event is my choice
The whole world doesn't drive Toyota.. So I choose a Fiat

Well, this early in the Event's release cycle, just about everyone is guessing or thinking. It takes a long time to find all the faults, and it takes as long to find out the workarounds. And, as was pointed out to AJ earlier, just because there’s a workaround, it may not be practical when actually playing much!

While many have embraced using Registrations to overcome a lack of front panel control (it’s what I had to do when going from the touchscreen G70 to the twin non-touchscreen BK9), many arranger players still prefer to try and run the whole show on the fly from the front panel. Talk about old school!

So ‘workarounds’ that aren’t practical under those circumstances have to be exposed and at least presented as a potential issue to ‘old school’ users. Remember, most of us here remember the day the asteroid killed the dinosaurs!

I say, bring it on! Let’s hear the impressions. If they’re provably wrong, that can be refuted. If the workarounds are practical or not, that can be discussed. But, no reviews, no discussion. No discussion, no clarification. Until there’s a ton of Events in the hands of those willing to come here and post about it, embrace what we can find, for good or bad.

We don’t work for anyone but ourselves! 🎹♥️💵

Hi, tend to think no amount of bad publicity is going to stop someone buying the keyboard if they really want it.
By the time I bought my PA5X, there were so many bad reviews and complaints around.
I worked it out for myself.
Did it have the functions I needed in it’s current state?
For me it was a case of I could make do , even if they didn’t add some of the functions from the prior models back in, yes I could.
(As it is , they are going too, do that is a bonus)
The odd bug it currently still has, I’ve worked around. Bugs they usually end up fixing , so that wasn’t really my main concern.

and life is as simple as that!




note : for a fair and (tending to be) objective and constructive discussion and comparison, see the following

link

... by a pro who owns the keyboards....

WHAT'S WRONG WITH OLD SCHOOL. I ARRANGE my keyboard for my needs and when it's set up I can play from the front all night ,off the cuff songs, fills, breaks and requests. Very seldom do i need to play hide and seek in the buried menu. I got my arranger so I could ARRANGE it to MY liking and if iat works for me I could care less if it works for someone else. SOMETIMES OLD SCHOOL WORKS. don't dare to make fun of it. There is more than one way to set up a keyboard.

As I said earlier, everyone uses their arrangers their way..!

Nothing wrong with ‘old school’, but as we’ve been discussing, some newer arrangers are making old school harder and harder to do. Fewer buttons, a shift toward using the central touchscreen for functions, an exponential increase in style and sound choices, more and more effect options etc. etc., it’s a very different world from the 90’s when arrangers were so simple, old school was how nearly everyone ran the arrangers.

But what we saw from the Event review is, old school may not be as practical as it used to be, an important consideration for players coming from say Korg or older Yamaha arrangers, that actually do have enough buttons to go old school.

And once again, Rikki, home use isn’t really the gold standard for deciding whether missing features, buggy features and incomplete data migration are important or not. No, they may not be important to YOU, but you don’t face the pressure of performing in public, and relying on the migration of data you’ve accumulated over years for your show to function smoothly. Working pros may not even have the days if not weeks you took to find your workarounds, and may rely on heavy sampler use (I have a feeling that’s an area you possibly haven’t gone bear yet, but the Middle East and Slavic countries are completely dependent on easy sample set migration).

If you didn’t rely on using the SMF to style converter to prepare new styles all the time, or any of the other incomplete or buggy sections, it’s pretty easy to say ‘I’m okay, nothing to worry here’. But other power users of the PA4x may be as legitimately in a bad position. Thing is, most of them are not posting here…

So, once again, lower your hackles, folks. Nothing wrong with how YOU use your arrangers. But just because either you still have an older arranger that still allows you to easily go old school, or lowered needs as a home user with no commercial pressure on whether the bugs, missing features and data migration issues matter, don’t try to insist that because you have no problems, people shouldn’t bring them up all the time. If they weren’t having issues you don’t face, they wouldn’t be posting about them, would they?

So well said, Rikki. Regarding low forum participation, maybe people are just tired of hearing constant criticism about any and every thing that doesn't fit their view of how the (arranger) world SHOULD be. Or maybe just tired of being bombarded with solutions looking for a problem. I think REAL solutions to REAL problems are usually handled when ENCOUNTERED and POINTED OUT by actual owner/users of the instrument. I think, as Rikki pointed out, that speculative criticism by non-owners who have never even SEEN the instrument, much less having any hands-on experience, could very well discourage would-be purchasers from buying an instrument that they may very well have been totally satisfied with.

So, I say, let's assume that the prospective purchaser has enough brains and common sense to research the product based on input from current owners and determine if any uncovered (or perceived) deficiencies will affect his/her intended use of the instrument. Also, just because a feature is not implemented the way YOU would have implemented it (different people use different features in different ways - or sometimes not at all) doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad feature; it may work perfectly for someone else. In any case, in the words of the great Muhammad Ali, "different strokes for different folks".

chas

PS: I'm not sure Muhammad Ali came up with that .

Not really sure how a user review that points out issues qualifies as ‘publicity’, I rather feel that is the purview of the manufacturer.

But I can assure you, most of the angst you hear over at Korgforums is people that REALLY want a PA5x but having been informed of the bugs and issues that matter enough to be a dealbreaker are denied getting one until the issues are fixed.

You can definitely count me amongst those who would NOT buy a product no matter how much I want one if there are issues that would prevent me using it the way I want (and that worked fine the previous model). But then again, I’m looking for a professional product for professional users, who can’t afford to wait while essential features slowly (glacially!) get added back to the OS.

If you don’t like criticism of a product that meets your needs, put yourself in the shoes of someone that it doesn’t fit their needs until finished, and see how you’d feel then…

As to forum participation, the forum is open at all times to discussions about anything related to arrangers. If you fail to come up with anything yourself, you are hardly in a position to criticize those that still do post about arrangers. There are plenty of other forums for discussing electric pianos, organs, furniture, bikes, whatever. But forum participation depends on the members. If the content isn’t what you want, be a part of the solution.

‘mine is better than yours’
my judgement is better than yours .. whatever you will say


hopeless

"Discuss topics in a civil manner or move on".. reminder for some...

Regarding Bojan from Dynamix Audio, I dont personally know him or have met him but I have purchased alot of his sample packs in the past to use with various arranger keyboards. for example The Power Piano voice is next level (I used it religiously in my PSR SX900). To my knowledge (Assumingly) he buys arranger keyboards, tests them and then designs sample packs for them.

He is not by any means a Yamaha or a Korg fanboy or any particular fan boy for that matter. (I dont think I am either) I love arranger keyboards and synths and it is my life - just like many others here.

I feel that the criticism Bojan gave about the EVENT was based on an arranger player's first hand experience without deep diving into the manual or the Screen menus - maybe he did try and menu dive and still couldn't figure it out? And personally I don't blame him. It is always warranted to call these things out - we live in a world where everyone is watching - and believe it or now - WE the customers have essentially become the product testers !!

Should Bojan have held back and waited for confirmation before posting the video? maybe.. but maybe not... Because although each and every one of his bug bearers have essentially been "de bunked" in AJ's video, Bojan raised some critical work flow / ease of use issues behind all the hype of yet another "latest and greatest" keyboard hitting the market...

Don't forget - Korg got absolutely smashed after the PA5x release, and rightly so... but hey - they are listening and they are correcting issues with OS updates. Without all the complaints and rants on "social media" they probably wouldn't have done anything... who knows?

Hi Diki, I did say I worked it out for myself (ie for my own personal use ) as to whether or not the PA5x would suit me.
Put it his way, I would never have suggested to a client to buy a keyboard or workstation if it didn’t have the functions they required, be it a home user or a pro musician.

I tend to think someone who’s never owned a Korg arranger before would even know some of the prior functions no longer exist on the PA5x.

Brochure on website says it is fully redesigned. (That to me would raise a red flag.)

Probably all the complaints have forced them into adding additional functions in the future, or maybe they were going to add them anyway. Only they know.

I haven’t bothered checking sampler out yet. I believe it’s the old samples from earlier keyboards that are the problem. I’ve got drum samples /loops going back to my pa800 days, for my sd1 conversions. If they work , then great, if not,I’ll redo them. But for me, it’s only a very small quantity.
I can’t imagine there’s too much wrong with the sample section of the keyboard, one of the Korg experts on the forum ( not from Korg) has created professional sound libraries for the PA5x. Piano, orchestral, choir, etc , so I don’t know.

Smf to style convertor wasn’t a function I got overly excited about. Not enough user control over it. I’m not really a big fan of song based styles, don’t really see much point in a half baked style, I would sooner play along to a midifile.

The midi file to style option is a function I would have definitely missed. That function I use for editing my styles in a Daw.