https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=brKjzKSS9ck



Yamaha DGX - 670
Pros - 4 style variations/ better style programs/ reads PSR style files with 4 variations ( there are thousands if free styles)
Can write user styles/ more realistic and musical styles that can be used/ can play midi files ( Roland can not)
40 plus Super Articulation sounds ( best nylon/ acoustic guitars / saxes, etc that Roland or Casio can’t touch)
Will read midi files ( including Roland ‘s GS and Yamaha’s XG files). Remember most pro GM files are written in GS format)
Has 16 track sequencer


Cons- 47 pounds/heavy/ bulky/ GHS keys ( not as good as Roland) . Not gig worthy ( screaming “amateur keyboard)/ no vocal harmony
/ no modulation wheel/ only headphone out/ no separate LR outs


Korg XE- 20
Light weight( 25 Ibs)/ terrible key touch and response/ PA80 arranger styles/ will read SMF/ Wav/ Mp3 files but poorly designed for live playback. No joystick/ pitch bend/ mod wheel/ PA 80 arranger styles means 2 fills and jumpy fills / no style writing/ has basic sequencer


Roland FP- E50
Pros - great key feel/ individual weights ( key response not as fast as Yamaha’s GHS for fast notes runs due to escapement mechanics for certain patches but great for piano tones
- better piano tones ( than Yamaha or Casio)
- pro looking keyboard on stage ( well designed/ no speakers on top or front)
-individual LR outs
- Vocal harmony
- 37 pounds ( lightest pro feel/looking arranger with build in speakers)
- blue tooth midi and audio
- chord sequencer

Cons- Can’t read or write midi files ( only Wav files) . That means you can’t play pre sequenced general midi files with VH data)
- other sounds ( non super natural tones)are good enough but not great ( especially saxes/ guitars still has Juno Di / Ds quality) . Not super articulation quality
- arranger feature is afterthought and style are poorly written ( limitations start to appear if you are One Man Band / solo performer)
- 2 style variations means 1990 era backing with improved sounds ( you will not be able to load even BK3 styles which has 4 variations)


Overall verdict- There is no competition in the market.great if you need one keyboard that has 88 keys and pro piano sounds and other acceptable sounds with manageable weight that has pitch/ mod wheels . Looks great as well.
For OMB players;You just have to load wav files and play and sing on top while using real time harmony by pressing chords in real time



Unfortunate for Casio. Which is still not considered as “pro” looking/ considered KB on stage ( regardless how they improved with the sounds, etc, the stigma is still there). It may take a decade and multiple endorsements.“

If I didn’t have a Korg Havian , I’d probably get one! It’s a great home instrument. I love having 88 weighted keys with arranger features. The chord looper is great for practice purposes too.

I'm excited because it's the first new keyboard with Roland's arranger operating system since the E-A7 was released in 2015. (The E-X50 and other low-end models don't count, since they seem to borrow from Yamaha's OS and feature set.) It's evident that the FP-E50 picks up where the FP50/FP80 left off. Go Roland!!

If you’re using .Wav files, why not put the backing vocals into those? Saves tying your hand up inputting a chord for the VH that probably needs to be doing something else…

And, if you are getting your .Wav backing from one of the audio backing/karaoke sites, those have proper harmonies already recorded, not just block harmonies derived from your singing. Hate to say it, but most great harmony backing vocals don’t track around like the Andrews Sisters! There’s more ‘call and response’ or contrary motion than block stuff.

I've listened to about a dozen demos of this instrument and my wallet is literally vibrating in my pocket . At this price, I think it's an incredible instrument and an incredible bargin. What I want is a stage piano, but for home use (practice and pleasure). I'm not that interested in the pro's and con's of it's 'arranger' features but will use the simple rhythm (backing) tracks when practicing. The main attraction is the realism of that (sampled) acoustic grand. I hope it doesn't suck me into that 'barbie doll' thing starting with buying a pair of high quality dedicated speakers, furniture-type stand, etc. That would just defeat the whole 'bargain' thing . OTOH..... .

The only thing I've got that's similar is my NUMA C2X which sadly, just didn't hit the spot and will probably be my grandson's next birthday gift. It has a decent piano but the rest of board leaves me wanting something a little better. Hope I don't get disappointed again. Oh well, "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Funny thing is, I already have all the features of this board (vocoder, harmonizer, arranger, etc.); they're just in separate units. This way I can bring it up to my office (where I spend most of my day) and noodle when I get bored. Damn, I'm sorry Jamman posted this .

chas

I have always been impressed with Mirriam Music’s reviews… he covers the gamut of everything from real pianos to every kind of stage piano and software too. And always has something relevant to say about each and demos them superbly (very pianistically).

And when he speaks highly of the action of the FP-E50 (after you’ve broken it in a bit!) that’s pretty significant at this price point if you are an actual pianist..! It’s so hard to play convincing piano on a plastic action. Most of us end up just playing it too hard, or having inconsistent dynamics.

I must confess, I've been looking for an 88 for my studio, this might fit the bill (and my bank balance!) 🎹💵😥

Chas
Just my $.02 If your looking for a home instrument with TOTL piano and don't mind going up in price look at the Roland FP90X. YOu already have the BK7M so MIDI that up and you have a pro level setup. That's what I have and love it, but never want to move it although with the mic effects and great onboard speakers I could do a restaurant job with the keyboard alone.

BTW better check and see if that's really your wallet vibrating, maybe it's those new vitamins your taking kicking in LOL

Too late, Bill. I already ordered it from Kraft Music. Plus, the FP90X is over twice the price and frankly, overkill for my pianistic skills. I listened to a lot of demos of the FP-E50 and I really like the sound of that sampled acoustic grand throughout it's sonic range, especially the lower end. The ZEN voices are just okay but then I won't be using them much anyway. I just wanted a standalone with a better than average piano that I could use away from my studio. At the moment, my clonewheel, BK7m, and VP770 are all grouped together in my 'rehearsal' room with two 15" EV's. In my 'studio' I have a Legend Exp midied to a Nord C1 (as a controller), a Crumar SEVEN, Korg Triton, Roland G7, Studiologic NUMA C2X, Live 'something or other' harmomizer, Computer and controller KB (for Sample play), and a ton of recording equipment. All three of my Arrangers are currently (and probably permanently) 'retired' and in storage. I will either replace the NUMA with the FP-E50 or (more likely) put the FP-E50 in my office (with a 2ch audio interface and laptop). That way (with my bad knees) I won't have to go down the dreaded stairs to my studio every time I feel the urge to 'noodle' or just learn a new song. So, as you can see, it's the all-in-one feature set, along with that nice piano, that sold me on this board (that, and the price ).

Long story short, the FP-90X is for a REAL pianist (which I am not). BTW, how are things down that way? I used to own a vacation property on HH until @2012. I still have some friends with vacation homes there.

chas

Chas
Looks like you've done your homework and know what fits you best. Some collection you have so enjoy your new board and happy playing. I get the urge now and then for something new but hate to devote the time to learning it and prefer to spend the time on playing and learning new music, or sometimes on technology and just play piano. Keep us updated on your new board

Bill, you hit the nail on the head about suffering through learning a new board. That's the appeal of THIS board; it looks like it was designed to be operated by (take your pick) a two-year-old or an idiot....well, let's just say it looks like a very simple, well-designed, easy to learn, layout. That's very good for old brains . It's due for delivery on Friday so I'll let you know my first impressions after the week-end. I'm real curious to see what it sounds like with the on-board speakers (I already know they're not on par, or even close, to the FP-90's but may be good enough to practice with without cringing ).

chas

The thing that worries me about downward and rearward facing speakers is they do a great job of not localizing the piano sound, helping it to be diffuse like a real piano.

But… what about all the backing sounds? Those tend to sound better with a directly heard speaker. Be nice if the piano only could be routed to the downward facing speakers, and then the backing routed to the main 1/4” outputs to go to some decent monitors. But I guess there’s always a compromise with a $1000 piece of gear.

Well it comes tomorrow and I'm mildly excited. In any case, I'm not going to START this journey looking for negatives. I'll reserve judgement until AFTER I've heard it in person. I tend to trust MY OWN judgement about how an instrument sounds. If I don't like it I'll return it get something else.....OR, maybe I'll just get a second one and play piano on one through the on-board speakers and the backing on the other through the L-R outs. I'll call it the 'IDIOTS WORKAROUND'. But anyhow, thanks for sending out those good vibes, Diki. The joy of getting a new toy is highly overated, right.

chas

Just want to make sure you are aware that you can use a stereo Y chord in the headphone jack of the DGX-670 and change the headphone jack to be stereo outputs and once you do this and push save, it will stay in this mode everytime you turn on the keyboard

George

I am a little confused...... I have the DGX-670 and use the Stereo Y Chord to connect to my monitors....
What do you mean by "Push Save"..

Ron

I believe this Roland has a chord sequencer/ looper, which I absolutely love. In fact this morning I set a loop for the standard rhythm changes, and worked on some 2 handed voicing that Chas turned me on too. There is no way my KB would recognize those chord voicing with the extensions and alternations using standard auto accompaniment . Also it’s nice to do rhythmic anticipations and delays without being a slave to the downbeat.
Take advantage of this feature Chas, I’m sure you’ll like it too!

I plan to, Paul, along with all the other nice features this very affordable, good-sounding board has to offer. Glad you could use that little 'tutorial'. Mastering that goes a long way towards making one sound 'professional'.

BTW, I've been listening to a lot of Santana lately. He's always been in the top 5 of my favorites, but it's the percussion that keeps bringing me back for another listen. It is just flat-out exquisite. The timing and precision is just beyond awesome. His younger percussionist that died (can't recall his name...failing memory) just astounded me with his artistry. It saddens me that this level of talent and artistry is only known by fans of the band when, in fact, these guys should be in some kind of music Hall of Fame. Oh well, no one said life was fair.

chas

Exhibit 1:
(go to about 5:30)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvvrGWrh...el=EpicConcerts

Oh, and the young guy that sadly died, Raul Rekow.

chas

BTW, got my FP-E50. Set it up briefly in the living room beside by Yamaha acoustic piano. Big mistake. NEVER play ANY digital piano next to a decent acoustic piano; it's going to make you have some regrets . Aside from that, it sounds great considering the two small 11w speakers (in a room size space). I have a spare set of 6" studio monitors which I'll probably add once it's in it's permanent space (my office?).

I haven't had time to play with it yet (NCAA basketball) but what I've heard so far sounds pretty good (probably much better with the external monitors). My only (mild) complaint is the 'stiffness' of the keys. Having played organ (and later synths) most of my musical life, I'm having to adjust to the stiffer action in this keybed. Luckily, I've been playing the Crumar SEVEN a lot, which is even stiffer, so getting acclimated to to the PH4 keybed shouldn't be too difficult. The arthiritis in my fingers doesn't help though. Hope it doesn't get much worse. Anyhow, I'll spend the next week doing a deep dive and see if my own feedback corresponds to the professional reviewers.

chas

Mirriam’s review mentioned that the action loosens up somewhat after it’s played in.

You might try just doing rapid repeated notes on each key in turn for a few minutes each. Boring, I know, but you’ll get a more even break-in that way.

I really like this guy's playing and demo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFUhF2OpQzw&ab_channel=MeXKeys

chas

Ron,
I meant to say that on the dgx670 you can set a mode in "utility" where the internal speakers can be left on or off when you insert your stereo jack in the back to go to external sound systems. In the DGX660 if you did this, you would have to go to an edit screen and turn the feature on or off but on the DGX670, once you set this it will remain when you power off and turn on again. This was a big improvement. In my store if I left the jack in and someone turned the keyboard off and then on again, it would always be in headphone mode and you would here nothing if you didn't have the external amp turned on. Now, it's no longer a problem. I hope this makes sense!

@George Kaye did you mean to post your response on another thread?

Getting back on-topic... Today I received a marketing message from Roland in my personal email advertising additional styles for the FP-E50. When I clicked the embedded link, it took me to a Roland Cloud page. There, I learned that the FP-E50 seems to have style compatibility with legacy Roland arrangers! This supports my earlier conjecture that it has "real" Roland Operating System DNA. I also wasn't surprised to learn that the downloadable styles for the E-X50 and E-X30 are NOT compatible with other Roland arrangers (probably because they borrow from an entry-level Yamaha OS.)

So in the FP-E50 we have the first new "real" Roland arranger product since 2015. What will Roland Japan do for an encore?

Am I wrong, or did I see that styles in the FP-E50 only have two variations? And one Intro, one ending…

Roland’s styles have had 3-4 Intro/Endings and 4 Variations for well over 20 years. So I think full style compatibility is not exactly what’s happening. I wonder, will you be able to select which two of the four Variations play, or will it be always Var1 and Var4 or some other preset combination? And likewise with the Intro/Ending…

I think Roland have missed an opportunity to compete with the Yamaha, which is full Yamaha style compatible (all Intro/Endings and all 4 Variations). It certainly feels like a very arbitrary restriction that limits how well legacy styles will work…

I think any reading of the design and features of this instrument would make it clear that this was never intended as a full blown arranger, but instead a mid-priced digital piano with 88 weighted keys, an excellent sampled piano, and a few arranger-type features. To rate it as an 'arranger' is ludicrous (unless you're deliberately trying to criticize it - nothing new there). The minimal arranger features appear to be there more as an aid to practicing than a gig-worthy feature. I've had mine for about two weeks now and am very happy with it for fulfilling the purpose I bought it for. The specs and features were clearly listed and demoed on the net and if one wanted a full blown arranger keyboard, there were plenty of other options on the market. From what I can gather, most of the (many) new purchasers are not 'arranger' players but guys looking for a decent, inexpensive digital piano that COULD be used as a 'stage' piano.

Sorry, but I just get so sick and tired of the same people 'bad-mouthing' every product that they don't personally own (or intend to own). In most cases they've never even seen the product, much less played it. It must be sad to live a life of 'gloom and doom' where one's only joy seems to be finding something to criticize. Jeez, get a puppy.

I don't think Roland 'missed any opportunities' as the board seems to be very popular and well-received by it's INTENDED MARKET.

chas

Well said chas !!

Diki you are correct that the FP-E50 only has two variations per style. The FP-50/FP-80 also had only two variations per style, as did all Roland arrangers before the G-70. This fact by itself doesn't mean that FP-E50 styles won't play in older Roland arrangers, perhaps subject to revoicing.

My point was that style compatibililty (and incompatibility with the E-X50) supports my theory that the FP-E50 is built on the legacy OS of the FP-50 (which itself was intimately related to the BK-series.) Thus the FP-E50 is a descendant of the true Roland arranger line, whereas the E-X50 and E-X30 are impostors with Yamaha-influenced OS, style format, and chord recognition.

If you accept my claim that there is an "heir," the first in almost eight years, I see this as hope that the bloodline will continue!

So why make it compatible with Roland styles if it can’t play them correctly. It seems apparent that there are some here determined to gush about the product no matter how crippled it is (apparently, they’ve been waiting their whole lives for a crippled arranger, being unhappy with every proper arranger they had).

Sorry kids, but if you’re looking for an uncritical take on the FP, perhaps there’s somewhere a with a bunch of people that don’t really like arrangers. Bon voyage. You think you’re the only one sick of bitching, Chas? I’m not here to cheer on your every purchasing decision. The point was made, apparently the FP is compatible with Roland styles. So pointing out there’s some hurdles to overcome.

Being the person here with an actual FP, Chas, why don’t you do something useful for a change, try and load in a Roland style (you’ve no doubt got a bunch) and let the members know what it does to those 4 variation styles. Some of them might actually be arranger players and might be interested.

Diki, your mouth runneth over but you never LISTEN. First, I don't recall ever asking you to "cheer on" my purchasing decisions. In fact, if that's what I wanted, you'd be the LAST person I'd go to. Seems to me that you have appointed yourself Lord High Commisioner of the forum and that all musical decisions, including hardware purchases, need to meet your approval. It doesn't seem to matter what a member wants or needs, it needs to meet YOUR requirements, not THEIRS. And still you don't see why some folks might find that just a little annoying. You say to me "Chas, why don’t you do something useful for a change". What freaking arrogance. Do you think you're talking to a child? or maybe just some inferior being. I'm pretty sure most members, if interested, would politely ask how this feature worked and if I would test it for them when I had time (which I would be happy to do).

Diki, I don't think you're necessarily a bad guy; in fact, politically, we probably share the same ideology. It's just the condesending way you come across to people, like YOUR decision is the only one that counts and anyone who might have a different opinion automatically becomes an object of derision and ridicule. This even extends to the MANUFACTURERS who, despite their team of engineers, musical consultants, marketing analysts, and decades of experience, still ALWAYS miss the mark (by your standards).

Hey, maybe I'm being too harsh. Maybe I'll go to hell (unlikely, since I'm an atheist ) for not giving a damn about how many intros/endings/variations my purchase has, since that's not why I bought it (I guess you missed that part in the beginning). I wanted a inexpensive digital PIANO to keep in my office when I wanted to just noodle but didn't want to navigate the stairs (really bad knees and hips) to my studio or rehearsal room. The fact that the DP I chose had a few skimpy 'arranger' features was just a bonus (not a requirment).

I will still check out the 'legacy style' thing if I can figure out how to load them. I don't see anything about it in the manual. If you see instructions for it Diki, please post them. I also don't see any reference to a 'General Midi' instrument list and the instrument list provided doesn't contain enough instruments to play Roland styles. ???? I could be wrong about this; since I have little interest in this, I haven't done much digging. I've briefly tried the harmonizer but it doesn't come close to the Vocalist Live I have in the studio. Oh well, I can't sing anyway. Anyhoo, have a good day.

chas

sometimes, ignoring is better ....

... it has become hard to post here safely ...

... what would have said Nigel?!!!

Chas, give those bad knees and hips a break. Buy yourself a Bruno Stair Lift - you will love it!

I purchased this device for my wife about 4 years ago so she could get downstairs to the basement family room. However, because of my distal neuropathy I use it every day because I can no longer negotiate stairways safely. It is a true life saver, at least for me. It was not that expensive and the company installed it in a few hours.

Us old guys have to help each other when the need arises,

Gary (The old codger!)

Gary, I considered a stairlift as long as three or four years ago; Heck, I even considered an elevator (the $35,000 sort of discouraged me ). The main reason I haven't gone that route is the high probability of my selling this house in the near future. I live alone in a fairly large house and with contracted lawn service, landscaping services, weekly house-cleaning services, and heating and cooling a lot of air in largely unused spaces, maintenance can be fairly expensive. Plus, I'd like to be a little closer to my son and grandkids. I'm getting some cortisone shots in the knees and hips next week, so I'll see how much that helps. I may still do the stairlift thing, I'll see what my son thinks. Have a good day.

chas

OK. Many months have passed. How is the FP E50? What is happening with the arranger feature? Does it support other Roland styles? I am seriously thinking about getting this due to wanting a nice piano first and all else I'll take!

Zuki, I've had mine for awhile now and it faithfully does what I bought it for, a digital piano with a few scaled-down arranger features. I would characterize it as 85% piano/15% arranger. The modeled piano is great, the ZenCore based pianos are OK as are the other handful of instruments included (more are available for purchase).

I bought mine because I wanted a piano-based keyboard in my office which is on the main level of my house. With my worsening arthritis, I didn't want to have to constantly have to navigate the stairs to my basement ('terrace level' here in Georgia ) studio and/or rehearsal room every time I felt like playing for ten minutes (my stamina is 10% of what it used to be). The FP-e50 is perfect for this as it has the (very minimal but adequate) arranger features, Mic input with dedicated Mic effects, performance recording (but not multi-track), and very capable built-in speakers. As a gear hoarder with tons of unused gear, I added a DP32 SD to the rig so I could multi-track if I wanted to.

For a grand, you aren't going to get a Nord Stage 4, but if it's features meet your requirements, it's a great bang-for-the-buck. One cautionary note: If you intend to use it for gigging, that sucker is HEAVY. Also, it DOES NOT play regular Roland styles. I'm not a 'styles' player so that does not bother me. If you just use the drums (which I do), you'll probably be happy, as the drums are very, very good IMO. Keybed is OK if you're a pianist. I would classify it as somewhere between semi-weighted and weighted. Not nearly as "weighted" as my Crumar SEVEN (which I have finally gotten used to - feels like old original Rhodes).

So, to conclude, if you're mainly interested in a good piano, this unit will be hard to beat in it's price range.

chas

Thanks Chas. Seems like a dream machine, with many features. I have too many questions to pull the trigger. Like you, wanted a piano, but they teased us with the arranger function. Seems the style components don't allow much editing, saving, volume controls and the like. But would love to see one. I should live without an arranger for a while

You should. It'll do wonders for your playing (actually that's true, I'm sure Bill Lewis, Paul, and other pianist-types will back me up on that). Of course your approach to playing will be quite different. You may have to cut off your left hand, grow a new one, and start all over again . I'm not saying give up the arranger (still the best instrument for solo gigging - when used with good taste), but it's kind of refreshing using that left hand to reach for keys instead of buttons, switches, and mod wheels - makes you feel more like a musician (JMO).

Good luck 'cause I know you're going to get something (the second your wife isn't looking ). We can feel the creeping gear lust all the way over here .

chas

Chas, I too, really like Stu's video demos and he seems to really like this board. I like the scene settings and now understand the mod wheels might change the complexity/blend of the style itself. Definitely picking this up soon. Still playing live arranger gigs at 20/mo or so. Love the 4X, always will. This will be for fun and videos........ to come Thx for your thoughts on it!

Chas, you also mentioned 'use just the drums'. Can the style be picked apart like that? Not much information on that section.

Zuki, sadly the style itself can't be edited. However, if you push 'START' with the 'accompaniment' turned off, it will play just the drums of the selected style. It would be nice if it would also play just the DRUMS AND BASS of the style. Maybe in a future update. Sounds like a 2 minute software fix. It does include a very flexible chord sequencer (or as I call it, Diki's Dream) which can be useful for learning a new song (it can be programmed off-line) or just 'fun' playing. I have included a link which goes into more detail about the accompaniment feature. Hope that helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f-unNRTGrI&ab_channel=MerriamMusic

chas

Zuki, forgot to mention; there are some 'killer' organs in there but ONLY if you know how to use them. Optimally, you will need an expression pedal and you will need to polish up your mod wheel skills. No 'drawbar' control but all the traditional organ sounds are there with some particularly good percussive (Jimmy Smith - 888) sounds. In a band setting, you'd be able to cover the organ parts with no problem. There are also some decent Rhodes/Wurly type El pianos in there as well (as long as you don't play them next to a Crumar SEVEN ).

Biggest downside (for some) - charging ($5.00/ea.) for additional sound/style packs. Oh well, nothings perfect and if you're satisfied with the on-board sounds, you can always just skip it.

chas

Do the B3 percussion sounds have the correct behavior on the percussion (single trigger) or are they samples, so percussion on every note?

Unfortunately, percussion on every note. I think it would probably be too expensive to replicate the 'single trigger' in a board in this price range. A B3 player would pick up on this right away but probably wouldn't be noticed in a band setting, especially a rock band.

Diki, they squeezed as much as they could in for a 1 grand board but the emphasis is definitely on the piano side of things.

chas

Yeah. I got to admit, I have a really hard time playing organ on weighted 88’s. I just can’t break my waterfall keyboard smearing habits and skin my knuckles horribly!

It’s getting really hard to find much in this price range in my little boondocks. Wish I could give it a whirl…

Zuki (and Diki), there are many good videos on the FP-e50 but for the things you seem most interested in, go to 11:33 of this site: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBwyhpr1dOU&ab_channel=MerriamMusic

It contains an excellent explanation of it's most prominent features.

chas

Thanks for the link. I passed over that one, because I wasn't interested in the other board. Hmmm. I still would like to see someone on YT (or Chas!) do a legacy style load and see what happens. Hey, maybe it'll be me (or not, based on results). Also have a shot on an CVP 701 for $500 (OMG). Decisions

Yes, always done when wife is at work. Hey, just completed a master bath remodel (8 weeks) and sold my Nord and backup 4X, so I feel justified.

For a primary arranger user, the FP-E50 has some problems. For probably at least a couple of decades, Roland’s main arranger style format has used 4 variations and a gradual increase from 4 to 6 fills. This ‘new’ arranger has two variations. So Zuki has a point about how it’s going to deal with any style newer than 20 years old.

Any chance of taking a style from your BK7-m and loading it into the FP-E50, Chas?

With most here being fairly hardcore arranger users, how this keyboard deals with older styles or how easy to edit older styles to use newer kits and sounds (and maybe select which of the 4 Variations it plays) might be of interest…

EDIT: SEE POST BELOW. FP-E50 HAS NO STYLE IMPORT!

I also rewatched the Merriam Music video, and it’s fairly obvious that while the presenter is a highly skilled pianist, he’s pretty unfamiliar with arrangers’ minutiae, even to the extent of firstly kind of drowning out the backing while he plays (and I can’t honestly say he picked a good style to show off the arranger section to its likely sales demographic!) which is a typically rookie mistake, and secondly, seemed oblivious to any concerns about legacy data or style editing concerns.

He also didn’t seem particularly concerned about chord tracking details, seemingly more time was spent on the chord sequencer. I did note that (afaik) this is the first Roland that has any way to edit and import chord sequences. Nice. But it’s still a one section chord sequencer, so unlike the SX/Genos series 8 part chord sequencer, if you use a CS for a song you are locked into a rigid song structure, which kind of negates the whole freedom of the arranger.

I think his end analysis of the strengths of the Yamaha vs. Roland was pretty much bang on though. The Yamaha seems to serve the hardcore arranger user well, but at the expense of weight and portability, and the Roland seems to address the gigging keyboard player’s needs well, but not the gigging arranger user, who would probably put compatibility with other Roland styles pretty high.

NOTE: I JUST REREAD THE ROLAND SPECS PAGE AND NOTED THAT, ALTHOUGH YOU CAN IMPORT CHORD SEQUENCES, THE FP-E50 HAS NO SYLE IMPORT AT ALL. WHAT IT COMES WITH IS WHAT YOU GOT!

I think that alone is a hard pass for a gigging arranger player, but fine for a casual user who would mostly just play piano only, or MIDI it to a more capable arranger (like your BK7-m, Chas) it would be fine. Mind you, you’d have the issue of whether the chord sequencer would trigger the module’s arranger…

BTW, compared to the only other way Roland arranger users could expand their sounds (the old SRX boards) the ZenCore expansions seem like a bargain!

Diki, I've said at the beginning, the middle, and the end, that this board is sparce on arranger features and if I were looking for an arranger, I'd definitely look elsewhere. I feel sure that Zuki feels the same way because why else would anyone with a PA4x want a watered down pseudo-arranger. Because this is an arranger forum there is understandably a higher level of interest in the scant arranger features on what was clearly targeted at players wanting a good-sounding, inexpensive stage piano with a few bonus features thrown in. I think you have to accept the fact that most people interested in this board are far more interested in it's piano capabilities than it's mostly convenience arranger features. I mean, if you want an arranger, get an arranger. Then you can criticize it's features or lack thereof. As the original poster stated in the post title, "not a real arranger but great". I think you have to accept it for what it is. The question is not whether it's an arranger or not, it's 'does it meet my needs'. In my case, it does. I'm not going to hook it up to my BK7m, that's already hooked up to my VP770 in my rehearsal room where it serves it's function extremely well (drums and occasionally piano). The VP770 sits atop my organ and this setup is just perfect for me.

I tend to judge an instrument by how well it performs in the role I purchased it for. With the FP-e50, so far, so good.

chas

I completely agree, Chas. Each of us have varied needs and abilities, and I’m not criticizing anybody’s opinion of the FP-E50, if it works for what you want it to do, it IS ‘great’!

Thing is, the thread’s for all of us, many have not had the opportunity to play one much, and not many videos are made with an arranger user’s viewpoint in mind. So I’m just bringing certain aspects of it to the fore so we can make an informed opinion before anyone goes out and buys one just to try it out! Restocking fees and shipping woes make that a lot harder than the old trick of just popping down to your neighborhood music store and playing it for a few hours! The closest one to me is a good 3-4 hours of driving to lay my fingers on one..!

You know that, like you, the arranger section is of less importance to me than for probably most members here, but I feel that widening the discussion beyond just what works for ME is of benefit to the forum.

Diki, I might agree IF IT WERE TRUE. Hey Bro, you're spreading more dis-information than Fox News . I have downloaded 4 FREE Sound Packs containing about 20+- new styles (all as good as or better than the original on-board styles). Plus, there are numerous Sound packs available. These were all designed and created for the Zen Core synth engine and apparently Roland plans to produce more for this system. Getting them into the FP-e50 is simple using a USB flash drive. They will automatically install themselves in the correct musical category. I have included a post from our (FP-e50) forum that explains it all.

---------------------------------------------------
So here is how to utilize the Roland Zen Cloud to obtain additional Style Packs with the FP-E50:

1) Go to https://www.roland.com/us/products/rc_zenology/
2) Scroll down to download and install the Roland Cloud Manager on your computer.
3) From the Roland Cloud Manager App select, “FP-E50” to see available packs

There are currently four FREE style packs for the Roland FP-E50.
Previews are available to listen to.

* There are also a bunch of sound packs for sale or included with a subscription, that I did not explore yet.

4) Download the style pack(s) of your choice

5) Format your USB drive on the FP-E50 (Menu / Utility / Format USB)
6) Move the USB drive to your computer
7) Copy the .png and .sdz files to the Style folder on the USB

8) Insert the USB drive into the FP-E50
9) Go to Menu / Utility / Import Export / Import Style and select your new style pack.

The new styles will be placed in the appropriate style section, eg. Rock / Pop etc… usually at the bottom of the category list.

So it looks like the FP-E50 will be well supported in the Roland Zen Cloud. Looking forward to new content!

Have fun!
--------------------------------------------------------

chas

omg - belly laugh!!!

I think I'll spring for the e50. I will take that beautiful piano and 88 slab, something I've not had for quite a while. All else will be a blast, if for nothing else. My Korg serves me 100%.

I respect everyone's views on the product. Thanks to Chas for the links too

OK, more ahead.............

I listened to and downloaded (6) new style banks - about 6 - 8 styles each. A lot are just plain awesome. I suppose we are really relying on Roland to get the balances correct. Yes, you can control the master and style volumes separately, but not the style itself. Not gonna deter me. Excited to try this thing out!

Zuki, if I understand you correctly, you CAN control the style to a degree. With one button push you can change the function of the mod wheels and mod wheel two will control the volume of the style except for the drums and bass (which you can still control with the slider). All the way back and you'll get nothing but drums and bass. Turn off accompaniment and you get only the drums of the style. There is also a menu item to balance the parts. Actually, a very convenient feature. I think you'll enjoy this board.

chas

Cool Chas. I ordered one from SW. $999 and Roland is offering a $100 rebate

Great. Now comes the gut-wrenching, nearly unbearable pain of ANTICIPATION until it actually arrives on your doorstep . Just take a cold shower .

chas

Done. Might be here tomorrow. If you hear a big 'clunk', it was the sound of the board hitting me in the head More later....I hope

Empty stand wanting company

Zuki, hope that stand is adjustable so the (stand) feet don't interfere with your optimum position for the sustain pedal.

chas

Gonna try to stack a 4X61 and the e5O, for studio play and recording. If it doesn't work, I'll dump the stand and get the 50 furniture stand with 3 pedals (very expensive IMO). Have a good weekend. Zuki

But you can’t import any legacy Roland styles, right? Most of us who have had Roland arrangers (and everyone else with access to the huge libraries of older styles) would consider that being unable to import THOSE is what constitutes a closed system…

I merely looked at Roland’s own spec page and, under styles, there’s no asteroid and a description about style import… I regret I didn’t specify the difference between open style import and being forced to pay for curated packs of styles you may or may not like.

But, to be pedantic, it is still true there’s no open ‘style import’ (which is what most ARRANGER PLAYERS would consider the term means). Just paid import of packs that include styles you have no decision in their selection.

Diki, love the way you respond to things in such a way that makes you NEVER WRONG...about ANYTHING. AND, as excited and enthusiastic as a new potential owner is about something, you can always manage to introduce enough negatives to dampen their enthusiasm. Then there's the endearing quality of not listening, even when everyone is trying to stress, for instance, THIS IS NOT AN ARRANGER. iT WAS NOT DESIGNED AS ONE AND WAS NEVER TARGETED AT AN ARRANGER AUDIENCE. IT IS A MEDIUM PRICED DIGITAL PIANO (with very good PIANO attributes) with a few convenient-for-practice scaled-down arranger features. So why are you insisting on comparing it to features found only on dedicated arranger keyboards? WHAT does it take to make you understand that. Yeah, yeah, I know, you're just trying to protect those dense, clueless, unsophisticated buyers who are totally unable to make decisions about equipment that meets THEIR needs. Thank you for your service.

chas

Zuki, I’d recommend a ‘leg at each corner’ type stand for any proper piano touch instrument. Real pianos don’t wobble, and there are several reasons why supporting them in the middle leads to problems…

For starters, yes, you are going to have to play a fair bit harder than a lightweight arranger action. The keyboard is also much wider, which means forte playing at either end puts more motion into the keyboard. The end result is more ‘bounce’ if you’re playing hard (remember, the whole POINT of a weighted piano touch action is the control of dynamics from ppp to fff…!).

Why is this a problem? Well, a piano action (and any velocity sensitive keyboard action) determines how hard you are playing by sensing the speed at which the key is depressed. But this assumes that the keyboard isn’t moving! If the keybed is bouncing up or down, that motion is either added to or taken away from the force YOU used, leading to inaccurate tracking of your playing.

Not only should your stage piano SOUND like a piano, it should feel like a piano… and pianos don’t bounce!

I love the pure glee in your post that something I posted wasn’t 100% accurate, Chas. That schadenfreude must be extremely gratifying. Enjoy.

This is an ARRANGER forum, Chas. Isn’t there a forum for stage pianos with extremely limited arranger function you can post at where your disdain for arranger functions would be welcome…?

There may be someone here who goes ahead and buys one being unaware that every style they already have cannot be imported. But that wouldn’t be of any concern to you, would it? If it’s not something YOU care about, it’s not important, right?

1. They have access to the same information that you do.

2. They may not give a s--t about the features (or lack thereof) that you're trying to 'warn' them about.

3. It's possible that they may be just as smart as you are.

4. It's their money, I think they can spend it on whatever they like WITHOUT your approval.

5. They may not feel the need for a self-appointed 'savior' to save them from their own purchasing decisions.

And BTW. the old "This is an ARRANGER forum" is starting to wear pretty thin, especially since it's only hauled out when something is posted that you don't agree with. If I had a dollar for every post on this forum NOT related to arrangers, I'd be richer than Elon Musk. It must be wonderful to be a leading expert on things you've never even seen. I'm sure AJ feels the same. Have a good day and stay cool. I hear it's pretty warm down your way.

chas

I'm one step ahead of ya. I went with the furniture and 3 pedal system. I have my K&M all set with the other stuff, especially easy reach while video switching )

Correction: The e50 does not have a 3 pedal option.

Nice setup, Zuki. Reminds me a little of mine, ESPECIALLY THE CABLES . You start out trying to keep them in order but they keep growing to the point that you stop giving a darn . Things have become so digitized, complicated, and varied that even good old-fashioned 'snakes' can't keep things under control. This is especially true in our studio spaces where little pieces of equipment keep showing up, adding to the cord-fusion. We all pray we never have to tear down and re-assemble our studio space. Your new FP-e50 will add 2 audio cables, 1 USB cable, 1 Mic cable, 1 pedal cable, 1 music rack light cable, and probably a few more cables I haven't thought of . My wife used to refuse to come into my studio because of cable-phobia, she was afraid of getting electrocuted.

Anyhoo, hope your new board shows up soon. I'm anxious to hear your reaction to it. And don't worry about cables, soon EVERYTHING will be BLUETOOTH and lithium batteries. Can't wait.

chas

You guys should seriously consider utilizing a cable harness system to neaten that rat's nest of cables. I may still have one around here in my tool room, and I will be more than happy to send it to you if you wish. I purchased it from Radio Shack many years ago, and had more than I needed. Since then, I created my Custom Console, which neatly houses all the cables, provides a place for my net book PC, lights the top of my keyboard and also provides a lighted sign on the front, thereby hiding the back of the keyboard. I made about a dozen of the consoles for members through the U.S. and they all used them today.

All the best,

Gary

Gary, that's a great idea but the truth is, men enjoy being slobs. Although things LOOK unorganized, we know what each and every cable is and where it goes....most of the time...and provided we're stone cold sober. Seriously though, you're absolutely right IN A GIGGING SITUATION, but in the studio, equipment is constantly being repositioned, removed, replaced, etc. with cables constantly being re-routed. So, if you enjoy freaking out your spouse and you're not a neat freak (most men aren't), the messy cables stay, period, end of report .

BTW, how's your health situation going? You seem to be hanging in there pretty good, which of course is good news to us, your forum brothers. Has that heat wave hit your area? We've been miraculously spared so far.

chas

zuki,when you add your E50 to that set up,you`ll need a bigger bike.

Chas, most of my body parts are shot to Hell, the lungs are significantly worse, and I cannot stay off nasal oxygen for more than 5 minutes without beginning to pass out. My daughter ran a separate oxygen line into my office so I could access the PC and mess with the keyboard, which helps a lot.

As for the weather, it was 88 here today, with 90 percent relative humidity, which is akin to stepping into a sauna when stepping outdoors. Plus, we still have some nasty air pollution from the forest fires burning in southern Canada. This is a nasty time of year for those of us that had bad lung disease, but I have to stay above ground so I can take care of Carol, which is almost a full time job. She has been wheelchair bound for more than 3 years now and can do very little for herself.

I can easily see your point about the cables running everywhere, especially when you are changing or shifting gear regularly, something I rarely do. I still have my ancient Yamaha S-950, it still does everything anyone could want to do with any arranger, and I know the OS like the back of my hand. All of the associated amps and mixers were sold about 4 years ago, but I still have my Rock and Roller cart, a few X stands, a mic stand, and my keyboard seat, all of which just sit here and collect dust.

Thanks for thinking of me, Chas,

Gary

Of course, Gary...and I'm not alone. Russ (Capt. Russ), who has this uncanny way of calling me when I'm out (usually at a Dr's appt.), always mentions you fondly, which always reminds me that a long-running forum like this one, with members who have grown old together, is more, MUCH MORE, than just a "Arranger forum". Along the way, some members have become close friends, even, in some cases, when they've never even met each other in person. Like any 'family', there have been some "fussin and fightin', breakups and makeups, and people from every region and every religious and political persuasion, but in the end the glue that holds us all together is MUSIC.

Anyhow, try to keep your spirits up and keep you head in the game.

chas

Ah thanks. My wife bought for some place (dunno), didn't like it and dumped it in my studio. It works.

My live is simple and just a few cords, not this mess with multiple needs. No one comes around, so it works. I change stuff way too much anyway.

here ya go: "It's not the cords, it's the Musician"

Product arrived today. Hot and tired after chores and a reunion and more drywall mudding. Lucky I got it moved indoors!

Well, as it turns out, the 3 pedalboard listed as an option DOES indeed work. I had GC call Roland to confirm this. The advertising on this is very unclear and confusing, not stating it is for the E50, specifically. Anyone interested in this package deal with the stand and pedalboard, like me, I will let you know when it arrives. The piano awaits all, still in the box.

Chas, there are indeed people here at least as smart as me! However, not one of them INCLUDING YOU have pointed out that there is no style import for the FP-E50 other than Roland’s commercial content.

Thousands of wonderful styles, completely unavailable. For the ‘average’ arranger user, this is a rather important factor. And it all seems so arbitrary. There is obviously a well hidden style import routine but nothing for the user to mess with.

Yamaha sell style packs. But they don’t orphan your existing collection. Yamaha arrangers have style import, but they didn’t choose to remove it for the DGX. What confuses and disappoints me mostly is, it must have taken considerable time effort and expense to redesign the style import procedures so that only curated, copyrighted and commercial styles can be imported…

I guess if you go into a purchase with no expectations, you’re never disappointed. But, as far as I can remember, there hasn’t been a keyboard with arranger features in this price range for thirty years that could not import the buyers style collection.

I just have to wonder… is there an unwritten rule at all the manufacturers that says ‘If you make an affordable 88, you must remove at least ONE basically essential arranger feature, preferably more’! Because that’s the story of 88 note arrangers in a nutshell..!

Diki, Diki, Diki. You need to take your concerns to ROLAND. This is just a wild guess but I'm thinking (one of) the reasons legacy styles aren't supported is because this instrument is based on a NEW SOUND ENGINE (Zen Core). Reading through all the hundreds of comments in the Demos, Reviews, and Forums, I haven't come across a single complaint about this EXCEPT YOURS. All I can say is, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Your requirements for all these 'arranger' features may, just may, be different from the person that's mainly interested in a good-sounding, affordable digital piano (and considers anything more a bonus). As I said before, if you want an arranger, get an arranger (or a DGX).

I hope you realize that your opinions carry slightly less weight than Roland's R&D and Marketing departments.

chas

As you might have by now gathered, Chas, I could not care less what YOU want. I will continue to put my opinions and viewpoint up here just as you do.

I am not going to stop you from saying what you feel like saying. And you aren’t going to stop me either. I guess it’s something we are just going to have to get used to.

Roland have only once, in my entire forty years of using them, ever responded to direct customer support. And that was about a disastrous update that was locking up arrangers. Our only route to let the manufacturers know of our opinions is forums like this. You may feel impotent, but I can assure you that Roland HAVE in the past responded to user feedback. And changed things.

So, while you might think it’s raining on your parade, trust me, if any of this gets addressed, you won’t be bitching about THAT, would you..? Or maybe you would… after all, you don’t really use arrangers much, do you?

Yeah, by getting out of the arranger market . I must say, the power of your complaints is absolutely astounding.



It may not "get addressed" because Roland designed it that way ON PURPOSE, not as an arranger (even if YOU keep insisting that it be one) but as a stage piano with a few arranger-like convenience features and a new sound engine. Apparently, their marketing dept. thought there was a market for this type of configuration. BUT....sounds like YOU want to make it into something else. Actually, I'm glad this board (FP-e50) showed up. Now that you've been able to show Ketron and Korg (PA5X) the error of their ways, you can now devote all your energy to demonizing another keyboard that you've never seen, much less played. Ahhh, your posts are SO uplifting....I think I'll just go throw my FP-e50 in the dumpster....I mean, what good is a PIANO without 4 variations, 4 intros, 4 endings, and some stuff in the middle.

chas

Zuki curious minds are awaiting your review of the Roland FP-E50
you've had it a while now what do you think of it so far?

Hey Donny...good to hear from you. Tried to call several times.


Be well,


R

Exactly, Chas. What good is an ARRANGER without the industry standard four variations..? Or the industry standard style import? This still being the ‘General ARRANGER Forum’, I will continue to review keyboards with arranger features as any other arranger. Maybe the day we start a ‘Stage Piano with very limited Arranger features’ forum, the FP-E50 will be the best thing ever made.

Maybe some of us are content with performing entire songs with two basic beats. But I guarantee, were you to ever play with a drummer that was so limited, you’d fire him..! For 20+ years, arranger players have had four variations to choose from. And you know what? In 20+ years, nobody has EVER said ‘I wish there were fewer’.

Until now…

My job here is not to make you feel better about your purchase. But it might be to inject a note of caution to arranger players that buy into the initial enthusiasm, unaware of basic issues that a non-arranger enthusiast might gloss over. That this has got your hackles up about it seems to prove my point.

Diki, if you have no interest in this board and no plans to buy one, why are you even in this conversation. Zuki was interested and had a few questions which, as an owner, I was happy to answer or check out. Enter the "BIG BRAIN" (aka 'Negative Nelly') with his usual bag of complaints, apparently to make sure everyone else's day is as sad and dreary as his. Ironically, his main complaint turned out to be just another source of MISINFORMATION.

The whole idea that your (self-appointed) JOB is to use your superior knowledge, experience, logic, and brainpower to save the 'great unwashed' from their own shallow, thoughtless, decision-making seems somehow, a little autocratic? He da' shepherd, we da' sheep.

If you've got a fat wife and 5 fat kids, you don't go out and buy a 2-seat sports roadster as your family car, but if you're a young single guy who can afford it, you might. Different strokes for different folks, different keyboards for different NEEDS, and everyone's needs are not the same. Russ's keyboard dates back to Roman times , but it meets HIS needs and he still makes a ton of money with it. It probably doesn't even have TWO variations but it doesn't matter much 'cause Russ KNOWS HOW TO PLAY. In my particular case, if I want to hear 'legacy' Roland styles, they play just fine on my BK7m. Oh well, I guess the bigger the brain, the smaller the ears.

Although I'm not a religious person, one of my favorite quotes just happens to be a biblical one; "THERE IS NONE SO BLIND AS HE THAT WILL NOT SEE" (emphasis on 'WILL').

chas

Hi Donny,

Just finishing up the home stuff. Had to wait on the stand and 3-pedalboard and glad I did - it's stunning. I played only a few minutes and it's a great feeling key bed, for sure. Been really busy and gigging tomorrow and will probably get to by Wednesday.

Thanks for asking!

ok sooooooo To Be Continued ?... looking forward to it good luck.

For anyone interested: I returned the e50. I thought it would take too much of my time and it was expensive with the package. The very next day, Marketplace locally had this listing: P125 package/white like new - $500. They took $300 and it is awesome too. I feel better to not go crazy money these days. This is a really great board by Yamaha. I like the aux outs too.

Looks great. Let us know how you get along with it.

Good luck,

Gary

Neat. As long as it meets your needs, that's all that counts. You sure as heck can't beat that price. Do you plan to add external speakers or does it need them? I don't know much about that board. Keep us posted.

chas

This is so very nice. It sounds amazing and I love the keybed too. I will run it into my Zed and out the MTMs. The piano is top notch and a joy to play. I like the piano better than the Nord I had. the strings layer super nice and decay perfectly. I'm blown away. It has a recorder and a few drum/bass rhythms. Just enough to have some fun.

You seem excited...good luck with your new gear keep us posted with your experiences.