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#508325 - 05/24/23 02:45 PM
Re: Re-learning old equipment
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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I'm sure you're right Diki, about the SOUND superiority of VST's like SWAM and many others. However, I think personal taste, playability, and how well it 'fits' with the other instruments on the tune, is equally or possibly even more important. I always liked that slightly tweaked (by me) 'breathy' sax on my ancient PA1x-Pro and that's why it's usually my 'go to' Sax, especially on ballads. I'm sure I'd like SWAM (maybe even better) if I were dissatisfied enough with my current choice to try it. Call it 'lazy', but I'm just not the type to go to a lot of trouble to achieve what MAY be a slight improvement in the sound of ONE instrument. I guess I'm more into WHAT is played rather than WHAT it's played on. I really like a lyrical approach to improvisation, especially on pretty, beautifully structured 'standards', and I tend to play it like I would sing it IF i COULD SING ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) . I guess it comes down to whether YOU, the performer, is satisfied with a particular sound. I'm sure there is a 'better' substitute for practically everything in life but again, sometimes it's just a matter of personal taste, and we all know how subjective THAT is ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) . On another note, so sorry to hear that you're going through such a scary medical situation but happy that you seem to be handling it so well (mentally, physically, and medically). Can't offer you any prayers (you know ME ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) ), but I will certainly send lots of good thoughts your way. My own health seems to be on a downward spiral (you name it, I've got it), mostly things related to old age, the one thing we dread (until we consider the alternative ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) ). Get well soon, I miss our loving discussions ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) . Do you know how hard it is pick a fight with Rikki, Bernie, or Paul ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) . chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#508326 - 05/24/23 03:13 PM
Re: Re-learning old equipment
[Re: cgiles]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14220
Loc: NW Florida
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Thanks Chas. I’ve missed our sparring too!
The thing about SWAM is, there’s a reason you like what you have. You bought it! It was better than what you had before, so you got to using it. All I’m saying is, if you have a device SWAM runs on, buy it, it’s pocket change. And it may easily make you think of your current favorite the way you think of the sound that that replaced!
You want sexy breathy sax, it does that. Same one also does loud growly sax. And everything in between, all by simply how you play. Believe me, I’ve got my goto sax sounds I’ve used for decades. Breathy Alto. Been in Roland’s my last three arrangers. Never thought I would need better. Then I played SWAM. Game over!
In truth, it’s not the sound. It how it handles legato, something sampled saxes fail at spectacularly. They are amazing one note at a time, but fail horribly trying to join a phrase together. Enter SWAM. It can ONLY play one note ar a time, like a real sax. You might (you did!) accidentally overlap a couple of notes, and you got two notes, not one. You might also join up two notes for a legato, but the sample was tongued for both. Sax players only tongue the start of phrases.
I think the best way to explain it to an organ player is, you know the difference between how a proper B3 percussion tab works compared to a sampled percussion organ patch? Night and day. Phrasing is so much easier when the start of phrases is where you hear the percussion. Even Hammond temporarily lost their way making later models than the B3 have multiple trigger percussion (triggers on every note), and it why the B3 is still King, and the most emulated organ out there (not a lot of L100 models, are there?!).
If you’ve got a device it will run on, give SWAM a whirl. At worst, you’re only out $40. At best, you’ve found your new favorite sax! I think maybe I need to run up a couple of demos doing stuff I know you’d like… 🎹♥️
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#508335 - 05/25/23 08:28 AM
Re: Re-learning old equipment
[Re: cgiles]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14220
Loc: NW Florida
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SWAM can run on Windows… https://kb.audiomodeling.com/en/c/compat...wam-instrumentsWhether this equates to tablets I don’t know, but it should be fine on a Windows laptop… I gig, so the idea that it runs on an iPad or iPhone is very appealing, but for the home player, or recordists who uses a DAW on a laptop or computer, it’s a damn sight cheaper than buying a Wersi! Unfortunately, the computer version of SWAM is quite a bit more expensive than the iPad/iPhone version, but it does add quite a bit of extra capability, particularly in the area of pitch fluctuation (random or programmed imperfections of pitch, like a real horn player gets). But personally, I think the idea that you got to buy a MASSIVELY expensive keyboard to run a $40 app in hardware is laughable, abacus.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#508337 - 05/25/23 10:47 AM
Re: Re-learning old equipment
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5363
Loc: English Riviera, UK
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SWAM can run on Windows… https://kb.audiomodeling.com/en/c/compat...wam-instrumentsWhether this equates to tablets I don’t know, but it should be fine on a Windows laptop… I gig, so the idea that it runs on an iPad or iPhone is very appealing, but for the home player, or recordists who uses a DAW on a laptop or computer, it’s a damn sight cheaper than buying a Wersi! Unfortunately, the computer version of SWAM is quite a bit more expensive than the iPad/iPhone version, but it does add quite a bit of extra capability, particularly in the area of pitch fluctuation (random or programmed imperfections of pitch, like a real horn player gets). But personally, I think the idea that you got to buy a MASSIVELY expensive keyboard to run a $40 app in hardware is laughable, abacus. Wersi is a low volume organ manufacture (The OAX 1 is just a single manual organ with arranger facilities like the previous generation Abacus) so will always be high priced. (They just sell a few thousand a year) If there was enough demand then all the remining big boys could make a dedicated arranger with onboard VST facilities way cheaper. BTW; A genos costs £4100, a Korg PAx5 £3800 and a Ketron Event £4400 with a current typical life expectancy of 5-6yrs before you loose a lot of money on them when you trade in for the latest model, whereas with a software based model would last way longer, (The previous Wersi OAS lasted for about 15yrs before being replaced with OAX, which is the equivalent of buying 3 keyboards from the big boys) and thus long term work out cheaper. As I said my post was just an example, its up to arranger players to put pressure on the big boys to make them make something similar. Bill
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English Riviera: Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).
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#508338 - 05/25/23 11:14 AM
Re: Re-learning old equipment
[Re: cgiles]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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Muhammad Ali said it best...'DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS'. I also agree with our fellow forumite Sokratis 1974 when he says "I respect your opinion" (and IMPLIED)...SO PLEASE RESPECT MINE. We HAVE to accept the fact that music (and practically every other art form) is highly subjective and that YOUR TRUTH IS ONLY YOUR TRUTH. People think I love the organ; I DON'T!!! I love the HAMMOND organ. In fact, I only like even the Hammond in certain formats ie. Jazz or Gospel. I can barely tolerate the organ in any other format, even classical, and particularly Theatre Organ. That's why, if marooned on an island, I'd rather have a $300.00 Casio than a three manual Wersi (assuming the island had electricity ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) ). There is no accounting for taste. Between tradition, environment, and numerous cultural filters, it's unlikely there will ever be a 'standard' in the world of music and art. And to that I say, Amen. chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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#508344 - 05/25/23 03:04 PM
Re: Re-learning old equipment
[Re: Diki]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
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THAT’S my idea of great technology… don’t make me have to change how I play, just figure out what I MEANT to play and give me that! 🎹♥️ Wow Diki, do you really mean that? First of all, I prize great MUSIC over great technology. Secondly, I want an instrument to accurately play what I played, not a technology-derived version of what it THINKS I meant to play. Unless it can read minds, how the heck does it know what I MEANT to play? Unless I've had to much to drink, I PLAY what I meant to play. Wow, how soon we forget how to read, write, or incorporate the word OPINION in our posts. Here is my OPINION about the quality of our musical performances. The biggest problem I see with most of the ARRANGER performances is TASTE!!! Say it with me, T-A-S-T-E, TASTE. By that I mean, song selection, instrument selection, selected arrangement (style), and most of all, poor playing skills. When Mario Parisi (sp) demo's a keyboard, I've rarely heard anyone (even you, Diki) dwell on or even mention, any deficiencies in the keyboard; they're too busy being mesmerized by a great performance by a great player. "Uh, the Sax sound was a little off" is a phrase you'll probably NEVER hear at that demo ![smile smile](/forum/images/graemlins/default_dark/smile.gif) . Soooo, save your money and stop worrying about that 'perfect' Sax sound until after you get the rest of the tune to a listenable state. Just my .03 cents (adjusted for inflation) worth. chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]
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