Having just decided to close the Technics EMID, I heard on TV news this evening, that Matsushita have just announced that they are closing the Panasonic Television and set top box manufacturing facility in Wales, at the end of this year - 600 jobs at stake - what next??
Full Story here : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3423189.stm

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Willum

yep, see my post http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum25/HTML/002372.html
soon it feels as if everything will be made in China - until China becomes too expensive and people expect more than a bowl of rice a day

Only the main manufacturing is going. The high tech research and development is being kept in Wales. This has been the pattern of industrial development throughout the developed and developing world and with free(ish) trade is a healthy sign of the operation of the principle of comparative advantage. Leo (an economist in real life).

But surely Leo this is the biggest lump and Wales has had more than it's fair share of manufacturing upheaval in the last 50 years.
Think of all the people who were in crisis at the closing of the mines only to be met by other family destroying circumstances.
All they ask for is an opportunity to be able to work and earn a living so as to support their families.

You are absolutely right Johnnie. There was another massive job reduction at Panasonic a couple of years ago. It was about 1000 that time.
As for the remark that it is "a healthy sign of the operation of the principle of comparative advantage" I don't think it's a very 'healthy sign' for the unfortunate people who will lose their livelyhood. There will doubtless also be roll-on effects on external suppliers in this country, as there always is, when a closedown of this nature occurs.
Not all bad news - it will be good for the Czech Republic !!

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Willum

Willum
I am with you 100%.
There is a horrible disease that is poisoning the well being of one the worlds biggest assets, working people and that is greed.
Announced today :- A honorary Knighthood for Bill Gates (YAK) so in Great Britain he now has a title Sir William Gates and he is probably one of the top five of guilty culprits.

Hey, folks, don't run away with the idea that I like to hear about lost jobs and unemployment. But:
1. I know from listening to my local news avidly that job losses make national news while job creation - new firm start-ups and new business moving into the area as well as expansion of existing ones barely rates a mention on even the local news.
2. Unemployment has fallen dramatically over the last ten years.
3. There are large areas of skills shortages which is why we have to import certain types of skills.
4. The technological skills base created and demanded by companies such as Technics makes much unemployment very short-lived.
5. Consumers such as your good selves are interested in buying a high quality product at the lowest possible price. How many of you would make a major purchase of something like a Technics piano or keyboard at the manufacturer's list price when a quick search of the Internet shows two dealers in England who will supply at a 35% discount (at least) including delivery charge anywhere on the mainland? That hits the high street shops hard (even if they are chain stores) and consequently their staff. Or even something like published music and computer software (copying and sharing????) Am I guilty? Not of breach of copyright, no. But I told my local high street shop how much I could buy my Technics PR604 for through an Internet discounter and invited him to negotiate a deal with me on that basis. I ended up paying more than the discount price because it was worth it to have the local technical support and goodwill, but a substantial amount less than his original asking price. And would you really pay the list price for a car, white goods, Panasonic TV or digital camera?

My Fellow Forumers,

I have the greatest respect for all of you. I think you know that. If you don't, you know it now. Let me add some personal thoughts, sincerely offered, to what you have been saying.

I agree that employees are hit hardest when a firm closes its doors. No one can question that fact. But no man going into business does so to employ people. I owned a small business in Florida in the 1950's. I didn't enter into business to provide a source of income for a few local people. I went into business for the sole purpose of making money for me and my family. The fact that I had to hire employees to operate the business was simply a requirement to stay in business. I couldn't do it alone. When the business became unprofitable, I closed it. Simple as that. The employees lost their jobs. I couldn't continue to operate an unprofitable business just to guarantee my employees an income. Big business operates on the same principle. They are in business to make money, not to give jobs to people or contribute to a local economy. Please understand I am not defending big business. I am merely putting the facts of life in their true perspective

I had a military career. It came to an end after 26 years. I was out of a job. I had a family to support so I moved on. I found a job in private industry. That job ended after eight years and I was unemployed again. I moved on. I returned to college at the age of 60 to qualify myself for my new job. I retired five years later. I am just one of countless millions of people who find themselves out of work and who need to move on. A job is not for life! The people in Wales will move on. In this wonderful country where you have a welfare state providing an extensive financial safety net, some may elect to take advantage of that net, but most will move on like I did. Neither small nor big businesses owe their employees a job for life. Times and business conditions change and businesses had better be flexible enough to adapt to market conditions or no one will have a job.

As for the honors system, I find it to be rather ridiculous and Bill Gates being knighted is just one of many thousands of examples of how irrelevant the system is. My wife and I have been caring for our eldest son for nearly 50 years. He has a severe learning disability and is an insulin-dependent diabetic. Thus, we have had ample opportunity to be served by wonderful doctors, nurses, and carers wherever we have travelled. The carers, especially, never receive any recognition other than the pat on the back and other expressioons of appreciation we, the parents, give them. They are the people who should be awarded public recognition in the form of an honors system - not movie actors, rock band musicians, lawyers, athletes, businessmen, artists etc. For the government to give awards to movie actors et al makes a mockery of the honors system in my humble opinion. So I see it as an idea without merit unless such awards are given to people who deserve public recognition and reward for their contribution to humanity.

Thanks for listening.

Chuck

Hi All,

I agree that any person or group of people who start a business are there for themselves first.

In most cases employees are just a by product of the need to keep a business growing in order to keep sales moving.

But, I believe there is a major differece in the way people look at busiess and a living today.

In years gone by people were happy just to make a living. The shop owners of the corner stores did not ever expect to ever be Millionaires. They just wanted to provide a place in the world for their families to live.

Today eveyone wants to hit that lottery and they seem willing to do whatever they have need to do to find that pot of gold.

For example Disney asks its employees to take pay cuts and layoffs while they pay it's CEO an 11 million dollar bonus. Walt Disney would be ashamed of that. Yes he made money but he treated his employees like family.

The second problem I see it that we expect more and more people to be more and more technical. In the past there were always jobs available for the those people who just are not that technical. Assembly line jobs where a person could at least earn a living. Today we ship those jobs off shore and wonder why we have so many homeless people. We pay pennies a day for labor while we line our pockets with more money than we could ever use.

I don't have any answers because I to want that KN7000 for $400 or HD TV for less than $1000. And I too want that Lottery JackPot but that does not mean its good or right.

Happy Playing,
Heather

Hi Heather,

The compensation packages for CEO's are obscene in the extreme in many cases, and when it is at the expense of employees, it is immoral and indefensible as well. But the trend will continue simply because there isn't any way for the ordinary man to seek redress. Even shareholders are unable to deal with the problem because it is the board of directors who approve the compensation packages for CEO's. Sad, but true.

Chuck

P.S.

I would like to cite the $43 million severance package our Vice President, Dick Cheney, received from Halliburton as an outstanding example of the obscene.

Chuck

getting further off topic: Halliburton sold many millions $ of equipment to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and ceo, without their government contracts they could well go bust when all the asbestos claims against finally come up. On topic: don't forget to try the Sound Arranger on your preset styles

Offtopic:
Why can't you guys speak Norwegian so I can
understand what you're talking about?
Now I have to find my wordbook again...

Very ontopic: $43 miilion is just the amount
that it's room enough to handle in my empty
bankaccount
GJ

Hi Alec and Gunnar,

I always enjoy your inputs because they are right on target and always interesting.

Alec, you hit the nail on the head regarding Halliburton's support of Saddam Hussein. Let me hasten to add that I have been, and still am, angry at my government for supporting Somoza in Nicaragua, Saddam Hussein in Iraq, Marcos in the Phillipines, the Taliban, and other such dictatorships. There are no ethics or morals in U.S. foreign policy - just selfish interests. And I say that as a citizen who served honorably and loyally in the armed forces of the U.S. I saw firsthand, the support for Saddam Hussein by the United States and Saudi Arabia, while working in the Kingdom in the 1980's. I know whereof I speak!

Gunnar, do you think you could share a little of the $43 million with me? My bank account is almost empty, too.

And finally. Alec, thanks for the reminder to use the Sound Arranger. I experimented with it a long time ago and haven't touched it since then. I need to take another hard look at it. I've just been concentrating my time on lessons and learning to play. Need to explore the technology more.

You two take care.

Chuck

ceo = chief executive officer = main man who should take responsibility for a company's actions.

Cheney = Vice President = politician (alt. liar) who stated categorically during the Presidential campaign that Haliburton did not do business with Iraq - only with eg Libya (which at the time still sponsored terrorism).

KN7000 = good keyboard.

As I said, Alec, you're right on target. And with your kind assistance, Gunnar won't need his word book anymore! Ha Ha

Just kidding, Gunnar. I think you do marvelously well with the English language. At one time I could speak the Dutch langauge reasonably well but I left the country 38 years ago and have lost 99% of my vocabulary and fluency. Sad but true.

Chuck

Thank's a lot for the english lesson Alec,
it sure help a lot when it looks like my
wordbook are out of date.
But there was one word I wondered a lot about:
KN7000 ???? Never heard about it, did'nt
find it in the wordbook....

WOW, did you really speak Dutch Chuck?
You sure have to make a lot of strange sounds
speaking that language, even worse than the
Norwegian language if you ask me....
I'm sure if you take a trip to Holland you'll
speak as a native Dutchman in no time
GJ

Indeed Gunnar, I know for sure that Chuck appreciates a really big 'uitsmijter', and Chuck knows what that is
Cees

Whatever topic you would like to call it.
Chuck I also served my country the country you now live.Just as you served your own and so have millions before me.Why do these people do these things. Because they are told to do so NO, it goes very much deeper than that. Why do they put their life on the line simple, it is patriotism, it is pride, it is a love of their country, it is a passionate fire inside for freedom and a belief that to have freedom is every persons right.
What are people supposed to feel like when they have endured such dangers and deprivation when they see miserly corporations shift vast manufacturing processes to countries abroad such as china, spend millions to set it all up and pay employees peanuts just so they are able to escape paying a living wage at home. What's next on the menu, I will tell you.These so called conglomerate giants after paying miserly wages for their products abroad and getting the same products as cheap as chips have the front to ship them back here and sell them at exorbitant rip off prices
It is now also happening in the service industries like British Telecom have moved their call centres to India so that every time you have a query the phone is answered by an Indian whom you have a job to understand let alone tell them what the problem might be,the same is also happening to some of our banks Barclays,HSBC, Insurance Companies and others.
Just have a look round and see the many 000's that have been put on the heap because of these actions.
I do not come from Wales but you can take it from me that all the Welsh,Scottish, Northern Irish, and English, have sweated blood
It is not practicable to boycott all these products but it is well to remember the clock always comes back around to where it started.

That's not one of the 3 words I once learned in your
language Cees, but I don't think I'm going to try it out here..
GJ

Truth be told, trading with the enemy is a time-honored American corporate practice of big-business ties to repressive regimes.

Halliburtin was and is a leader in this practice. Cheyney gives up a multimillion dollar job with Hallburtin to run for the VP of the US. Think about why he did that.

Oh! Yes but even worse
Who elected him.

Let's remember that exporting technology and jobs in it to developing countries is one aspect of development assistance that has long-term beneficial effects way in excess of the(nowadays usually temporary)disbenefits to our economies. Check out the average family income in countries like Korea and Malaysia if you don't believe me. And while you're about it, check out how fast real incomes and leisure time have increased in the UK for the vast majority of people over the last 25 years. Way back then, I couldn't have afforded to buy a Technics keyboard and I certainly wasn't working the hours that would have given me time to enjoy playing it.

AND THE BEAT GOES ON , LADI DADI DA, BEST REGARDS, BENNO ,STILL LIKE MY UPGRADED KN 6000

Goeden Avond Cees en Gunnar,

Ja. Uitsmijter is heel goed. Loempia en sate ook. Cees, mijn Hollands is niet zo goed nu. Ik heb het tal niet gebruiked voor veel jaaren. Maar ik kan nog een kleinbeetje woorden schriven.

Gunnar, I said to Cees that uitsmijter, loempia and sate are good. They are foods. I also said I haven't used the language for many years but I can still write a few words.

I have the sense that some forum members feel we should restrict our dialogue to keyboard talk only. I'll be the first to respect those wishes if that is the consensus, but I must admit I enjoy talking about a whole range of topics as well with all of you, my keyboard friends.

Best Wishes to All,

Chuck

those hanging chads in Florida!
(we hardly elected Mr. Honesty ourselves, Johnnie )

Leo
I don't know what you was doing 25 years ago but I was only a wage earner and I had and owned a C3 Hammond + twin 145 Leslie speakers (synchronised).
You appear to attempt to make a case for the corporates.
Me I just feel sorry for the unemployed some who gave 20/30/40 years of loyalty to the companies who just dumped them for nothing other than corporate greed

I don't want to get into politics and I don't want to get into the rights or wrongs of the Iraq war.

When was the last time you saw or heard of any politician who was honest or could claim to be clean but at least the current leader never had business interest well at least not that he can be accused of having self interest in corporate activities but I am not saying he would not if given the chance

just a bit of light hearted banter, Johnnie I agree on our side of the pond in degree it is not as bad as looking after the family oil business - we'll see how rich he gets after leaving office!

Hi Alec,

I can assure you we will never know how rich Cheney becomes after he leaves office because it is unlikely he will head another corporation, hence his income is not likely to be divulged publicly. However, he parlayed his former position as Secretary of Defense into the position of CEO of Halliburton. Now he has added Vice President of the United States of America to his resume (C.V.). Maybe a few lucrative directorships will keep the pennies flowing? In corporate America his resume will be looked upon as a diamond to display publicly to attract business and he now carries more influence than ever inside the government where astronomical sums of money are thrown at favored corporations. Cheney will capitalize on this opportunity to further enrich himself. Of that there is no doubt.

Chuck

Either way Alec I do not expect he will ever need for anything. Like all the rest I expect it will be a knighthood followed by a seat in the House Of Lords at that stage it becomes very hypocritical

OIL=MONEY=IRAQ=BUSH&CHEYNEY

Hi Larry,

You've got that equation right. That's for sure!

Chuck

A question Larry, or anyone else. Is your formula, capitalism refined or a corruption of the capitalistic system. If corruption then corruption lies at the root of many economic system’s demise thru the centuries. Lately Russia, Iran and now am I seeing the handwriting on the wall for .......... us?

Doug

OIL=MONEY=IRAQ=BUSH&CHEYNEY[/QUOTE]

I think this all stinks---can we get back to music?

Eveyone has their own view on a subject, and I feel that's good. I feel wisdom comes when you you understand it is only your view, and there is a possibility that it may not be correct--it is your view as you see it, one unknown fact can possibly change that view.

IMHO--Have your views, that's good, but tread easily, we are friends with our views.

Wow, did I just say that, oh well.

Life is good, John C.

Yeah, life is good most of the time,
the rest of the time it's real good.
GJ

Gunnar,
AMEN,
Walt

[This message has been edited by Walt Meyer (edited 01-27-2004).]

Best current oxymoron is:

HONEST POLITICIAN

That's my 2 cents worth for today!

Ted

Dear Forum Friends,

"Haliburton did not do business with Iraq." It's was their off shore company in the Cayman Island which is totally legal! (Hee-Hee) Except that there is no company in the Cayman Islands only a registered company name. No building, No CEO, No anything.

I live in Florida, and I don't believe for even one minute that hanging chads had anything to do with the Bush-Cheyney win or the close race. Brother Jeb was not going to let his brother lose Florida. It's like JR and Bobby Ewings with Papa Ewings watching from the background.

As for who elected him, the same ones who elect every President (Big Money Corporations).

And when I want to forget all this stuff and think about more pleasant things I play my piano or listen to some of you play.

Heather

Kindly do not turn this forum into a political forum
Thank you
Bebop

This thread is in the main about the closure of Technics and the implications that it creates for different people around the world.
Although members are expressing their views I don't see where anybody is or has been purely political.
Perhaps it would be a good idea if we just run a few picture galleries.