I'm been getting so excited over all the recent hoopla over the upcoming KN7000 that I forgot to ask if it includes a 'built in' vocalizer or not. If so, I hope it's a LOT BETTER sounding than the one included on the KN6000/6500.

Having a professional sounding 'built into the keyboard' vocalizer is very important to me,

- Scott

Dumb (?) question here, Scott: what is a vocalizer and what do you use it for?

... no such thing as a dumb question, Ted ... you work your mic through a mic input in the keyboard, and if the kb has a vocalizer unit in it you can add vocal harmonies, effects, etc. ..... there is one in the kn 6000 which I have not been able to make useful .....
t.

Hi All,
I really hope the 7k has onboard vocalizer!
The 6k effort was a waste of time. I remember reading an article in Techplus (one of Alecs I think?) giving suggestions on how to improve it's use. It did make some difference but not enough that you would want anyone other than the dog to hear the results. Then again maybe that was due to the raw material,(my voice) and not the vocalizer
I ended up buying a digitech VR but the continual setting up is annoying. I don't want loads of outboard stuff.

What I do want is to sound like Shirley Bassey or Elvis depending on my mood and of course outfit
If I'm spending a couple of grand on a keyboard I think that's the least I can expect
ttfn
Tony (the voice) W

Hi Scott and all,

I'm kicking myself! I had the chance to play the 7000 about a month ago and completely forgot to check for the harmoniser.

My guess is that if the 7000 includes an improved harmoniser (and by god it would have to be improved!) there would have been some mention of it in the press release and I don't think there is.

Scott, does your 2000 have a vocalizer? Ruthie says I have a big mouth. She agrees its good for kissing, for talking it's more than adequate but for singing she rolls her eyes back in her head and utters a mournful grunt. She says in my singing ability something is missing. Not just missing but missing badly. I tried the vocalizer in my 6500. I got it all set up and ready to go. I then called Ruthie into the room, told her to sit on the couch. I then started to play and started to romance her with a very beautiful love song sung from my very heart. With a flourish of a grand ending and full of anticipation I queried her for her expected approval. To tell the truth I certainly did not expect her to recommend me calling a doctor. As a pro Scott, would you say a better vocalizer would be in order? Having a professional sounding 'built into the keyboard' vocalizer is very important to me, as you stated. Altho I like my 65 very much and can make it sing with my fingers and would very much like to get the new 7000, do you think I would be better off getting what you got to enhance my singing? Maybe I could get em both. Use the PSR for singing and the KN for some real live sounding music. Wa da U think?

Grandpa Doug

Hi Grandpa , Yes sir-ree, the PSR2000 not only includes a built in vocalizer, but quite an 'impressive' sounding one at that. To this day, I'm continously amazed how good it sounds, especially since the entire keyboard costs less than $1,000 (US dollars). Though it doesn't include as many features as the $450 (US) standalone vocalizer unit (Digitech Vocalist Workstation EX) which I used with my KN5000, it more than satsifies my demands for live gig performance, and sounds far superior to the crappy (sorry folks, but I have to be honest) sounding one in the KN6000. Grandpa, don't lose faith that Grandma doesn't appreciate your beautiful singing, it could be just your dammed backup singers. Maybe if you just replaced THEM, it would solve everything.

As Peter Castanos mentioned, it's odd that Technics made no mention of any new (improved?) vocal harmonizer in the KN7000. Considering the widespread bad reviews the KN6000/6500's vocal harmonizer got, I would think that Technics would have made it a #1 priority to correct this on the KN7000, and to make a 'grand stand' annoucement about it as well. Certainly the cost to correct the problem would have been mimimal, considering the Yamaha PSR2000 (with vocal harmonizer) is so cheap.

Because Technics made no mention of a vocal harmonizer in their KN7000 press release, or highlight it in their KN7000 demos, it makes me suspicious that they either eliminated it all together or just decided to keep the same aweful one they had in the KN6000/6500. I HOPE I'm wrong, because a 'decent sounding' built in vocal harmonizer has become an expected 'standard feature' in most top of the line keyboard arrangers these days. As both a singer & keyboard player, it's an ESSENTIAL feature. - Scott

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scottyee:

Because Technics made no mention of a vocal harmonizer in their KN7000 press release, or highlight it in their KN7000 demos, it makes me suspicious that they either eliminated it all together or just decided to keep the same aweful one they had in the KN6000/6500. I HOPE I'm wrong.........

Hi Scott,

I suspect that you are right !
Like Peter , I was on the point of asking as I looked at the 7000 panel but someone asked another question and it later slipped my memory to ask about a vocaliser.However I've just read previews of the 7000 and Yamaha Tyros in Keyboard Player and no mention is made of a vocal harmoniser on the 7000 but it is mentioned on the Tyros.
I think that as Technics perhaps feel that they couldn't get theirs to meet a high standard they would ignore it ???
Although I don't use it I would think it would be useful with Karaoke and lyrics available on TV screens.

Hi Derek: Not only is the vocal harmonizer good for karaoke/lyrics on screen type venues, but as a pro solo vocalist & arranger keyboard entertainer, I find it an essential tool for the one man band entertainer as well. I typically utilize the vocalizer to provide backup harmonies on the chorus of a song, or just to emphasize specific word(s) of the song. Utilizing a vocal harmonizer adds variety & interest to many songs, and many songs demand it (Steve & Edie Gormet tunes, Everly Brothers, BeachBoys, Boy2Men, BackStreet Boys, etc), so a decent sounding 'built in' harmonizer has become an essential requirement for me.

Hi

A small opion of my about the vocalizer.
I think i have bought a music instrument and for me that is the mean point and hardly you can say never uses the vocalizer. So if you pro's neaded a good one why don't you buy one from the specalist eg Digitech.
They don't experiment with building something like a keyboard to there vocalizer.

You pro's mostly don't use the inbuild speakers too and buy those things from specialised companies like amplifires to.

Why don't improve making sequences by building in software like for instance cubase or cakewalk.

So in my opinion let a music instrument a music instrument and upgrade the sounds and stuff to make playing more enjoyable.

regds
Willem


vocalizer

Not THIS pro ! I rely on the onboard speakers to bring the sound closer to me so I can better control the volume to me audience. The advent of monitor speakers is nothing new, but having it built in to our tools is a GREAT advantage over the old way of "one job - one tool"

Todays pro market includes many smaller, less "sonically demanding" performances, and as a working musician who does his own hauling and setting up - I refuse to carry anything that I don't need.

The keyboard manufacturers have yet to really address the needs of the full time working pro that does these smaller velues. All the atention seems to go to the guys that might get on MTV. They are getting closer, but in fact, no one is building a roadworthy, lightweight, fully featured keyboard that MOST pros will be happy with. They all have SOME of what we want, and SOME of them sound better than others, and SOME of them are more portable than others, and SOME of them ..... you get the idea.

From the Pro's point of view - as soon as someone gets it right ... REALLY right - I'm sure there will be a flood of customers rushing to the stores to get their hands on the beast. Until that day, we are all in an endless cycle of upgrades and compromises - workarounds, and sacrifices. And through it all ..... we somehow find time to get to work and PLAY these keyboards !

Maybe my post from general arranger is also on topic here.

The criteria of semi pro or pro musicians are quite different to the home player. For them a harmoniser is important because they can save money on a Digitech or Prism, even if the Yamaha harmoniser is not the equivalent, it may very well be good enough for the job, and another box does not have to be carried and connected up, and the wires go wrong. The Technics harmoniser is not good enough. For many home players a harmoniser gets tried out at Xmas or a party and then forgotten about. Thus Technics don't spend money on a chip and patent license, they use a dsp.

It all depends where you decide to spend the money in design and whether the function is worth it, i.e. going to be used by the majority of your market, I suppose.

That's right Willem.

So, applying that argument, why did Technics experiment (and fail miserably) to build a vocaliser for their keyboard?

For the price that most dealers charge for a high-end Technics keyboard .... they should GIVE you a harmonizer, deliver it to your house, set it up, and play FOR you for free !

Singing isn't everyone's bag, but it sure is important to alot of us. The built in harmonizer is a definate PLUS when I shop for a keyboard.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uncle Dave:
[B]For the price that most dealers charge for a high-end Technics keyboard .... they should GIVE you a harmonizer, deliver it to your house, set it up, and play FOR you for free !

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When I last played as a semi pro it was in a five piece vocal harmony band
drums, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, bass guitar, organ, with all five members singing vocals/harmony. We practised very often & were really tight on the harmonies.
Sometimes I would go & play solo in nursing homes for free & entertain the old folks or maybe in a hotel lounge for a good fee.

As a band we were offered a contract to go pro & tour Germany for less money than I earned in my day job & that is where a lot of bands started the long grind & most called themselves pro but went nowhere.
Today we are blessed with the KN range agreed the 6K harmoniser is a non starter but don't let us be short sighted here have a look at what there is in the rest of the box for your money.
KN5000 £1999/ KN6000£19999/ KN6500£1999/ KN7000 £2099 now I defy anybody to say they did not get great value for their money.
My A100 Hammond of course today a classic never had built in styles nor a sequencer or any of the features that today make the KN a joy & 30 years ago minus the Leslie cabinet it cost as much as any of todays arranger keyboards.
I'M SATISFIED thats entertainment
Johnnie

The SUSPENSE is killing me!

It's now practically a whole month since I initiated this thread and I STILL don't know for sure if the KN7000 includes a built in vocal harmonizer or not.

From the closeup pics I've seen of the KN7000's control panel, I can't seem to find a dedicated vocalizer button. Is perhaps the vocalizer is accessed via the KN7000's entertainer/mic settings window?

If the KN7000 does include a vocalizer, is it substantially improved over the inferior ones included on the KN6000/6500, or did Technics decide to forego the vocalizer altogether now? If so, this would (imho) be a major setback, as a decent sounding built in vocalizer has now become an essential feature of most top of the line arrangers these days and required by many pro arranger kb performers like myself.

I hope Alec Pagida (and others who have auditioned the KN7000) can finally provide the real 'low-down' on the KN7000 vocalizer.

Scott

Hust read a write up on the 7000 in the Organ Player (UK) magaazine, and yes Scottyee it does have a vocal harmonister, but no comment in the mag about quality. I'm pretty sure that Alec mentioned in a posting some while back that the harmoniser was no better than the 6X00.... is that right Alec?

Peter

Hi Scott, Long time no hear trust it's because you've been busy "socking it to 'em"
If Alec doesn't get a chance to answer your plea, I should be able to do so, this weekend - I've been promised delivery of mine, Saturday or Sunday.

------------------
Willum

Hi Willum: WOW ! You must feel like a little kid waiting in anxious anticipation & excitement, counting down the days & hours till Christmas morning or your 10th birthday. I'm so excited for you. We all can't wait to read your feedback on your new KN7000 after you get it home, and in your hands, including finding out the details regarding a vocal harmonizer. Bill, looks like you may be Synthzone's honorary FIRST KN7000 owner.

- Scott

As far as I can see it is very similar or the same as the 6500. Since I don't sing, it does not worry me, since I've never used it since writing a tutorial about it a long time ago now.
I should get another 7000 tomorrow...

Alec (Technicsplayer):

'Another' one? Wow! . . . that means you'll have two KN7000 kbs. One for the studio and one for the road huh?

Re: KN7000 Vocal harmonzier

I'm really surprised & disappointed to hear that Technics didn't correct the infamous KN6x00 cheesy vocal harmonizer problem on the KN7000. Hey, even my budget priced ($1,000 US) Yamaha PSR2000 includes a very decent sounding vocalizer so why couldn't Technics have done this on their top end, higher priced arranger model? Does Technics give any official explanation?

I realize that some of you may not care about the vocalizer feature, but many (most?) professional one man band entertainers 'do' sing to enhance their act, and having decent sounding vocal backup harmony has become an 'essential' part of the package, especially when performing classic pop 60's to present day contemporary tunes. Many classic pop/rock tunes demand vocal backup harmony as even the type of harmony used has become a signature feature of a song. Can you imagine singing a Beachboys tune or 'California Dreaming' without vocal harmony? I'm afraid Technics really dropped the ball on this one.

Though I've been a loyal fan of Technics KN arrangers, and certainly impressed with some of the other new KN7000 features (SD Memory, etc), I'm having serious reservations about upgrading to the KN7000 now. With my KN5000, I was at least able to place an external vocalizer box (Digitech Vocalist Workstation) right on top of the KB (directly to the right of the LCD screen: over the right speaker section), but on the KN7000, there appears to be no place an external vocalizer box can sit (fit) which will allow direct access to the vocalizer's controls & sliders while performing. I wonder if there's any possibility the KN7000's vocalizer could be improved via an OS update?!

I'm really interested in getting feedback & views from others on this.

Scott

Quote - “I'm really interested in getting feedback & views from others on this” by Scotty Yee.

Please don’t tempt me.

Grandpa Doug

Scott,
Don't forget about the rackmount harmonizers. I'm resigned to the fact that I need to carry one. It's a one space unit that has decent reverb in it too. If the keyboard mic input has EQ controls, you can have just what you need.

I only had the review 7000 for a very short time, Scott, it went back on its way travelling around the world a few times...

The 6X00 had an extremely comprehensive setup and control screen for digitech or prism etc, 7000 should be the same. I have no idea what any official technics explanation for this is, I just think that most of their customers just don't use a harmoniser in anger so they spend the money elsewhere in the design process.

I know the yamaha vocalisers are good, but you must admit not as good as an external unit. To do the job properly you have to pay the licence fee for the chip, which yamaha do, rather than just use a dsp which is what technics have done. I suppose each makes a decision based on what their market thinks important. Technics attitude is probably that if you want the job done properly, hook up a digitech, we'll spend the money on sounds/screen/operating system, the things that our market go for?

".......and we'll include a useless harmoniser to cheapen our product and annoy some of our customers"!!

and a brassiliser....
and in days gone by a button giving you church bells and bird tweets on the panel....

obviously these ideas originate from the cheese department.
anyone for gorgonzola?

Yes, I agree. For the larger wedding/corporate party events, bringing a dedicated vocalizer rack is fine, but for the 45 minute set nursing home gigs & smaller venues (multiple gig/day type events) I need to travel as 'light as possible' with 'minimal equipment' for quick in/out setup and breakdown time.

If only the KN7000 included a vocal harmonizer of at least comparable sound quality as the one included in my budget priced Yamaha PSR2000 I would be happy. Sounds like this isn't the case though.