Maybe someone can help me with the following problem:
I have loaded 10 single custom rythms (.cst files downloaded from the technicskn7000site into my kn7 custom memory on the positions 1 to 10 and cleared the positions 11 to 20. If I now select custom stylist in the Music stylist menu I see 10 x 4 variations in a certain order. For some of them however there is no rythm because it seems that some correspond with a cleared position (11 to 20)in the custom rythm memory. Any idea how is that possible?
I hope I have explained the problem clealy enough.
Regards,
Bert

Hi Bert,
I have the same problem.
I think the answer is that the position
of the style in the custom is relevent
to where it was placed in the keyboard
of origin, but only shows when you use
the music stylist. It seems that you can't
use the stylist with these downloads of
mixed styles from different models.
Brian.

Bert, you have probably copied an empty/cleared panelmemory into the custom.
You must realise, when you copy a composer/panelmemorie to the custom that the following items are saved in custom:
Composer A AND Panelmemory A or
Composer B AND Panelmemory B or
Composer C AND Panelmemory C
The variations 1-4 are also linked to the panelmemories 1-4!
So the structure is:
Comp.A, variation 1 is linked to Panelmemory A, pm 1.
The status of either the composer or panelmemory are important to what will be stored/works in customplace (for instant the saved settings on memory A).
You can control it by copying the related custom back to the composer A. If you look thereafter in panelmemory A (Panel memory Bank View, page 3) you will see that the name is/was cleared.
Success,
Cees.

[This message has been edited by cees (edited 01-30-2003).]

Thanks for your reply, guys.
Brian:
I think you are wright. This means that it will be just luck if the rythm is loaded to the original position and if music stylist is used voor custom styles probably none of the rythms is the correct (original)one.
Can anyone confirm this?
Cees:
I think this has nothing to do with panel memory, because I just load .cst styles from floppy into custom memory, no copying from composer memory.
Bert

Hoi Bert, I think you'r wrong. To my opinion a custom must have his 'roots' from the keyboard. I don't know another way to 'make'' a custom, do you?? It is not possible to 'make' a custom without the composer and panelmemories, am I right?. Therefore the 'roots' of the performance of a customfile must be the composer/panelmemorysetting...
Have you tried to copy it back from the custom to the composer? Did you examine the panelmemories thereafter? I'v made a lot of cst's with this procedure with the results above mentioned.
But I'm willing to learn if someone else has 'the answer'
Greetings,
Cees.

Hi Bert
The position of styles within Custom Files should NOT change. If you cleared positions 11 to 20 and saved new cst files to positions 1 to 10 then whenever you reload - the positions will be the same.
You can check this by pressing the custom button and viewing viewing page 1 which should contain 10 files and page 2 which should show no files (i.e clear)If you then go to Music Stylist the first 10 positions will contain files and the remaining positions will show clear.

However, It may be that when you click on Music Stylist the first highlighted file is not necessarily file number 1 of the 20 custom styles. If you use the skip button upwards it will stop at the file in position number 1 of the the custom styles. Each downward press of the skip button will take you consecutively to the next file.
I've noticed that every time you press the Music Stylist button and select Custom Stylist, it defaults to the last Custom Style you looked at.
Hope this helps
John



[This message has been edited by John North (edited 01-30-2003).]

Just wondering if the .cst files on the Technics download site only contain the actual Style and nothing else ??
This might account for the strange behavior.

------------------
Willum

Hi Bert,
apparently after you load the 10 individual .cst's in, you then have to save it as a song (.st) onto your sd card

press sd load
save
technic (format)
press page button and click off everything ie composer, sequencer etc except custom style which has to be set to ON. Save it, then load back into the KN. It should then show up in your stylist along with the blanks.

best wishes
Rikki

Whoops, that should read
.cst's in, you then have to save it as a song (.ast) onto your sd card.
best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rikkisbears:
[B]Hi Bert,
apparently after you load the 10 individual .cst's in, you then have to save it as a song (.st) onto your sd card

press sd load
save
technic (format)
press page button and click off everything ie composer, sequencer etc except custom style which has to be set to ON. Save it, then load back into the KN. It should then show up in your stylist along with the blanks.

best wishes
Rikki

Thank you all for paying attention to this problem but I am afraid that the problem is not well understood. I will try to give a deeper explanation:
I have downloaded the .cst styles from the KN7000 download site and saved them on my PC. After that I made folders of different groups of styles, like ballads, country, 8beat etc., grouped the downloaded styles and saved each group to a floppy. In this way I created a floppy containing a number of .cst files which I afterwards loaded one by one into the custom rhythm section. Before I did that I cleared all the positions in the custom rhythm section by copying a cleared composer memory to all the positions. As an example I give you the result of the contents of the custom memory after I loaded a group of country styles (indicates the origin from kn7 website):
Pos 1: Country Shuffle (kn65)
Pos 2: Country Shuffle (world)
Pos 3: Country Swing (kn3)
Pos 4: Country Swing 1 (kn2)
Pos 5: Country Swing 2 (kn2)
Pos 6: Country Waltz (kn5)
Pos 7: Country Walz (kn2)
Pos 8: Techn Country (kn5)
Pos 9: Saloon Bar (kn5)
Pos 10: Square Dance 9kn5)
Pos 11: Line Dance (kn5)
Pos 12 to 20: clear (I want to use these positions for future extension)
I saved this group under the name ‘Country 2’ as .ast (all custom styles) to SD
This is exactly the procedure and even the grouping of styles as Rikkisbears suggested on this forum (thanks Rikki) and it works fine. Nothing wrong sofar.
Now I get to the problem:
I load my ‘Country 2’ file (all custom memory) from SD to custom memory. Pressing the custom button shows the contents of the memory as saved before. Selecting rhythm’s and MSA variations is o.k.
If I select custom stylist from the Music stylist menu I see 11 groups of 4 variations which should correspond in rhythm with the loaded styles.
The first one on top named Southern shuffle (with variations Country Groove, Country Rock Sax, Rock all night and Shuffle Drawbars) does not give a rhythm and if I check what rhythm in the rhythm section is choosen (by clicking the custom button) it shows pos. 13 which is a clear memory. I checked this with all Custom Music Stylists starting on top and using the skip button downwards with following result (style name in custom stylist – positionnumber in custom memory – rhythm in custom memory)
Southern Shuffle – pos. 13 – clear
Country Shuffle – pos 9 – Saloon Bar
Country Swing – pos 4 – Country Swing
Country Swing 1- pos 7 – Country Waltz
Country swing 2 – pos 16 – clear
Country Love – pos 7 – Country Waltz
Country Waltz – pos 12 – clear
Hillbilly Joe – pos 10 – Square Dance
Pub Singalong – pos 2 – Country Shuffle
Bar Dance – pos 9 - Saloon Bar
Line Dance Crazy – pos 8 – Techno Country
My conclusion is that the link between custom stylist and custom rhythm is not correct but I cannot find out the reason for this. Is there anybody who can tell me what I am doing wrong?
Rikki: you use the same method, do you have the same problem?
Bert

Bert,
I may be wrong, but I think your problem is your moving of files on the computer. The 7000 needs a control file to properly load data. This is included when editing on the 7000 or, I am told, using Techmanager7000 software to edit.

I had similar problems using the computer to edit files. I now do everything on the 7000 with no problems but it is much slower.

This topic was discussed by Alec and others on this forum. A search should give you the answer.

I look forward to Alec's new book on the 7000 so that I will have a better understanding of the 7000 system and will probably order the Techmanager7000 Software at that time.

cheers,

Fran in Florida

What a complicated mess ! Most people reading this stuff would NOT buy a KN7000 as it sounds as though you need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out.
The KN7000 is a relatively simple machine to operate unless you get into all this mumbo jumbo. There are easy set-ups to satisfy the most fussy player.
It seems that in this modern world it is better to take the simple and make it complicated ! Lloyd

Hi Lloyd,
I agree,
it is a really simple keyboard to operate, but , it has some really great functions, that aren't (unfortunately) explained too well in the manual. We've been left to work some things out for ourselves.

It's a great keyboard that can be used just as is, but I suppose some of us want to explore it's hidden potential so that that we can set it up the way we want.

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Bert,
I haven't used the Custom Stylist, but I just loaded my Country files in, and I don't appear to have the problem.

Try pressing the following buttons
Program Menu
Control Menu
Music Style Arranger Mode
and see if it's set to " Sound & Rythm".
If not, try setting it to that, and see if it works then.
I accidently set mine to " Panel Memory " the other day, and ended up with it not working properly.

If it still doesn't work, email me privately and we'll try and work out what's gone wrong.

best wishes
Rikki

My guess is that the customs loaded are relying on the panel mems and/or sound mems which are not the same as on the creators board. I don't use styles much and only use ones I create in a,b,and c. mems So I am not a pro at this. But thats my input. When I load in tech mode The style in a,b,orc I load all panel mem, sound mem, everything with each tune. Custom has not been my favorite way of using styles. limited.
Tony

Just for your info Rikki, You don't need to go through the Program Menu, Control Menu, Music Style Arranger Mode sequence to set the MSA Mode - just press and hold MSA for a couple of seconds and the same screen will be displayed. It's one of the many useful shortcuts.

------------------
Willum

When reloading a group of .ast custom styles into the custom memory I find it rather time
consuming. So as I load up each group now, I go through each of the 20 or less styles, decide which of them I know I shall use often.

Go to Programmme menus, select composer, next select custom style copy,then from the custom style box to memory bank a/b/c box, copy the first three desired styles into my composer memory. Before saving to my SD Card,I copy the registrations for each style from the variations 1-4 into Panel Memory A/B/C, 1-4.....on to the next three.

I no longer have to wait to load an .ast file
Just select the named file from the SD card
and it loads in seconds.

Incidentally, this can work in reverse. Select your favourite styles from your SD Card, load then into the composer memories a/b/c. Using the same procedure but reverse direction of the custom style box and memory
bank box and place the styles into custom 1/2/3 and so on. This method you can mix styles from previous KN's with commercial
styles saved on the SD Card.

Just an alternative way of using custom styles. Hope I have made this quite clear and keeping my fingers crossed it isn't a
repeat of another posting(g)

Shirley.

Shirley,

Good to see a post from you. It’s been a long time since I have heard a peep out of you. You sound just like Ruthie. Sometimes I take simple things and with my great analytical mind and wonderful power of deduction and I get screw up in my thinking. That is when I cry Ruthie, Oh RUTHIE! The magic word, Ruthie. Tightening her apron strings she comes to my side and says, ‘now what’? In my frustration I reply: Those crazy tech writers, I don’t think they understand all they know about this. Look, see if you can make heads or tails of this stupid thing and you’ll see what I mean. Now now my sweets, lets go to the kitchen table and take a look at the problem. OK, but I wish their boss would fire them and get somebody who can write these things in plain english so an ordinary guy could understand them. What jerks! Come on, sit. relax. Let’s see what the book says. Is this what’s got you so up tight? Hmmmm. Are you sure you read this. Yes, two or three times. Well hun, let me go back to the composer page like it says cus I don’t quite understand that and we’ll go from there. Well ya, sure. That makes sense. OK, lets go back and see if we can put it all together now. Well now, seems logical, lets go over to your baby for the acid test. Let me pull up a chair and we’ll give it a try. Let’s see, the book says this first. OK now push this button. Next? You got the disk in? OK. Now this, this and this! It works? Slowly rising from her chair Ruthie looks at me and says. I got other things to do. Next time read the book, not half of it. Now Shirley, comes your Quote. The quote that I think all girls either have learned in school or have been taught by their mothers. Quote: “Hope I have made this quite clear”.

Thanks Shirl, could we ever get along without a woman's touch?

Grandpa Doug

It is good to see that many response. This is a great forum!
Lloyd: it may look complicated to you but in fact it is very simple. I just want to use all the great possibilities of this keyboard. Music stylist is one of the features that should make the keyboard simple to operate. In my keyboard it does not work for grouped custom styles that are derived from different KN sources. I want to find out if this is a problem just in my keyboard or in all kn7's.
Rikki:
Yes, my MSA mode is "sound & Rythm". Please note that MSA works fine. The problem only occurs when I select from custom stylist. Maybe it is not a problem and just not possilble to use custom stylist with grouped custom styles from different KN sources. I can live with that but I like to know. I use your system of grouping styles so I will email you for some more comparison.
Shirley:
Thank you for your suggestion. Going through composer it is indeed the way for a quick load of preferred styles. I know this procedure but I want to have all available styles on my 128MB SD Card grouped into rythm groups to have them available when I look for the best suitable style for a song.

Please not that it is not such a big problem for me, I just want to learn all about my keyboard.
Bert

Hi Bert
I think I've found an answer to your problem. Custom styles loaded into Custom Memory are OK providing you dont use Music Stylist (Which I don't)
If you want Music Stylist to work correctly, then you need to load the Custom Style in No. 1 position and save the MSA variations into Panel Memories 1,2,3, & 4. Then copy the custom files into Composer A - then simply copy it back into Custom Panel. Then repeate for each Custom Style. Afterwards the Music Stylist will identify the correct Custom Style.
It's a long winded process but it WORKS.
I couldn't understand why my own favourite Custom Styles responded correctly when using Music Stylist - then I realized that they had all been copied from Composer to Custom Panel using my own settings in Panel Memories 1,2,3, & 4. not just downloaded straight in Custom Panel.
John

Thank You Willum,
goes to show I haven't actually played a KN for quite a while( 4 years since I sold my KN5). I've been so busy sorting the website .cst's for my new KN7000, now I'm sorting through all my Technote styles I bought over the years, I've forgotten the simple way to do things on the Technics. Hopefully I'll start remembering when I finally start playing again ( hee hee)

best wishes
Rikki

Hi Shirley,
it's fascinating to hear how members use the custom memory in such different ways. I use individual .cst's to build up my Custom Memory, others use the composer memories, just goes to show how versatile the KN7000 is. There must be a few of us ladies on this forum ,too.

best wishes
Rikki

My Custom Music Styles problem is solved!
Thanks to Alec Pagida, who contacted me by mail, we found that the old version 1.1 caused the problem. I upgraded to version 1.4 and reloaded the single custom styles and now every Custom Music Stylist points to the correct custom rythm position.
It is good to have such a specialist like Alec on board of the forum. Thanks again Alec.
Bert