There have been so many wonderful songs played and recorded for us by several of the faithful Forum members and every one seems better than (at least equal to ) the ones before. I am both impressed and intimidated by the inordinate skill and beauty of the presentations and want, publicly, here in the Forum, to thank you all for your wonderful contributions.

In this regard, a question: obviously (at least to me!) these recordings were NOT made just using "Easy Record" because they are too elaborate. Can anyone explain in detail how to record in this manner, since it sounds, to me anyway, almost like more than one person playing all the instruments in the arrangements!? I love to record my songs but they never seem to have all the frills and arpeggios, etc. that the more professional ones you guys and gals make and share with us! Also, does anyone have any banks of Performance Pads to share for insertion into the blank spaces provided for additional ones on the 7000 (and others, I'm sure). I especially would love to have some Christmas ones (sleigh bells, etc.) to add spirit to some Christmas songs, and some others for the Latin rhythms, especially bossa nova, other than the few in Latin 1 and Latin 2.

Thanks again to all you great performers and for sharing your beautiful music with us all! And, especially, thanks to BEBOP, who seems to be the one who send most of them on to us on his mailing lists!

Ted Rose

Hi Ted,
Have you listened to all the offerings on Kers' website? They show just what can be done with Easy Record, of which I am a great fan. With sufficient time and patience good results can come from multi-tracking, but the skills required to play live (with no pre-recorded stuff except maybe Panel Registrations) are quite different. I know a guy who takes about EIGHT HOURS to produce around THREE MINUTES of multi-tracked music. The finished article is quite good, but cannot really be compared to playing (and recording) LIVE.
Mike O'R

Hi Ted
I agree with Mike. You don't have to be a good player to Multi Track, more a technician. To record live on easy record and produce a top quality result then you do have to be a reasonable performer and there is a great thrill when you have done it.
If you want to watch the master of multi tracking then you should watch the Tony Pegler video on Sequencing.
P.B.

So the question could be..does it take more skill to 'Easy Record" or "Multi Track Record" ?

Someone who "Easy Records" a song, may do so because it is just that...easy. Or he or she may do so, to produce a more natural and realistic sound.

Someone who "Multi Track Records" may do so, because he or she may not have the skill to play left with right. Or he or she may do so because of the challange, and the tremedous amount of work involved in producing an elaborate arrangement

I like to listen to both methods.

SeeYa,
Larry Hawk

[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 04-10-2003).]

I'm with you Larry.
Both Art and Skill are required for each method. When I hear an exceptional "live" easy recorded rendition, I say to myself "what talent, maybe I'll be able to do that some day. I'll have to study just what was done".
Then when I hear a superb and complicated arrangement done through multi track sequencing, I wonder at the skill, talent, and patience required to put it all together and make it all blend.
I personally do not sequence or play along with MIDI, MP3, ETC., but I surely enjoy listening to the end result of someone who does.
After all, the main object is to produce beautiful music, no matter how complicated or simple it may be.
Just my thoughts,
Walt

Hi Ted;

Easy record is just that. I feel it lets you be more creative.

Using fill-ins , performance pads , a great style and then improvising the melody over that and bring in the fill-ins and pads at the right time makes for a very full recording.

If you check out my recordings you will notice that I use the fill-ins and pads as much as I can.
It does make a diference.

Technics has some great performace pads.

Peter Bentley is absolutely right on easy record.
When you fit all the right pieces together. Style,song,voice,fill-ins and pads, it gets your creative juices flowing and the results are very rewarding.

Alex

Being mostly a two-finger player, Easy Record is the way for me to go using progressions with the variations and panel memory settings. I seldom use on-board styles, but prefer to search for something that strikes my fancy and build from there. It is an easy task to splice in a few measures from another style, or even a whole variation to add something that would take hours to program in, such as the fireworks I used on "Anchors Aweigh" on the Patriotic Songs. All of my stuff is quite simple and some nights I can record two songs and still find time to practice the song twenty or thirty times before recording. Extra tracks are fine for those who want more depth in their music, so I imagine it's more of a personal thing. Sometimes a few notes to fill in a dead spot is all that's necessary to produce a really good sounding song, and a few of the fellows that share their songs on this forum are becoming masters at doing just that. Others were already masters, and it's fun to pick their music apart just to see how it was formulated. Another learning process! Once anyone puts their music on the forum for others, it sort of pushes them to excel at their skills and we all benefit. Too bad that some of the great players don't have the time to put more of their music out here for us. But still, there is plenty of room for newcomers to shine!

[This message has been edited by Bud Whipple (edited 04-10-2003).]

Hi Ted,

I’m not sure how familiar you are with my recordings. Everything I do is performed in real time, so that I can play it for my friends and music club members live. I use Easy Record and and one finger chords except when a really tasty chord is called for. As Alex has suggested there are a great many tools on our keyboards to embellish our arrangements. Since I’m not a very skilled player, I try to put a great deal of my effort into preparing the styles to make the arrangement interesting. I frequently expand the variations from four to eight measures and have counter melodies come in at the third measure as they frequently do with real orchestras. I have even step recorded parts that I was unable to play in real time to provide an accompaniment that was complex. Every time it seems impossible to accomplish a musical effect our keyboard reveals a way to do it.

Frank

Getting to where you are going I suppose is the reason of starting out in the first place. When I purchased my first keyboard I had no idea where I was going with it much less how to use it. Just before I retired I bought it because I liked the way it sounded and looked. Kind of like when I buy a new car. I buy it because I like the way it looks and sounds. I just plain like it. Don’t have anywhere in mind to go and no time in mind to get there. I buy it loaded with the things I like to use and let me tell you, Ruthie and me use it. The only thing I put into it is gas and oil. That’s it! So with my keyboard. I push the switch that fills her up with hundred and ten volt juice and away I go using everything that came with it. I guess what I want to say is, unlike Bud and some others, very seldom do I ever use any other rhythms or voicing than the ones that are built into the board. Don’t get me wrong, I have bought and acquired hundred upon hundreds of rhythms and disks. I have less than twenty in the customs that I find of any use. What a waste of time and money over the years. I have found non better than what is already available in my board. Maybe a little tweaking here and there and spending quite a bit of time matching the right rhythm and voicing and there is very few any better. The only reason I am musing on this subject is because of all the music that has been shared on this forum over the last nine months or so. I have noted that some of the guys use mostly rhythms not native to their boards. Some prefer the rhythms of their former technics’ boards. Then there are those that even buy different brands of boards because they don’t like the rhythms and voicing in the technics family of boards. Not that it is even of any importance, but I would be interested in understanding what it is about the built in rhythms that lead people to not use them more. Then follows the question of why buy it in the first place if you don’t use them. I do understand one reason. I myself have been caught up in it also. And that is that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence syndrome. Is it is or is it ain’t?

After all this, back to the subject at hand. Recording songs. I like the stuff recorded live. The way it would sound if the person playing and the person listing would be side by side. The music as it comes out when played live, not doctored, but using it just like it came out of the box, rhythms and all. It is my personal opinion that the built in rhythms sound much better than most all imported ones. They are much more realistic than most others. However I do like the sequenced work of guys like Larry. Man, I could listen to that kind of stuff for hours. That blows me away. Talent oozing out from under their fingernails. I suppose the reason I like the easy recorded stuff the most, is because I have a chance to play what I hear. What I hear is what is under my fingers and is possible for me to attain if I apply myself. I’m with most of you fellows. Developing the art of using the things built into our boards is very rewarding indeed. Frank you are so right. Talk is easy but you got the fruit to prove it and I like it.

Grandpa Doug

WOW!!! I had no idea I would get this kind of a response to my message! I am so encouraged by all the positive comments made about Easy Record and really encouraged to continue doing exactly what I have been doing--that is, recording LIVE (using Easy Record) what I am playing and then enjoying it later on by having saved it. I have learned so much from all of you guys and gals here on the Forum that it blows my mind I better understand now and agree that there are so many extra aspects of the keyboard that can add to any real time performance, and I am now more and more encouraged to try using the Performance Pads and fill-ins more than apparently I have been doing. Thanks so much to you all for your feedback. Maybe I'm not as bad as I thought I was ; my wife has been telling me that she is amazed at my new-found skill since getting the 7000. Now I am almost inclined to start to agree with her, thanks to the encouragement and words of wisdom from you all! LONG LIVE THE 7000!

Cheers to you all, my dear friends!

Ted

In response to Grandpa Doug's query as to why anyone would use styles other than the ones on the keyboard, I have to add my views. Over the years, while recording with my keyboards, I would pick a musical theme and go from there. I've done around 30 tapes and CD's filled with all sorts of songs, and as with my Country Gospel songs, I needed 59 styles that could be adapted to gospel music, and there just weren't that many on the keyboard. The same thing with the Polka songs - using onboard styles, I wouldn't be able to fill one side of a 60 minute tape. I never use the same style twice when I record, for the same reason any recording artist won't use the same music for each song they put out. They wouldn't be in business for long. Now, I won't argue the merits of Technics onboard styles, because I feel they are probably top-of-the-line for quality, but there are also others that are very good, and quite usable for recording. Most of the songs I do, all by easy record, are for the most part, to help supply extra styles for those who can't quite get the hang of converting. It's a snap for me now, but a few years ago it was very confusing and I didn't know how to build up a style pattern on my own. This is where the learning curve comes in and when new players don't need help with conversions, then I will spend less time on that phase, and more time on practice and recording. When I play for myself, I quite often use the onboard styles, but mostly I would prefer more and better sounding instruments. There is nothing wrong with the Technics styles, but I like to be able to chose from a field of likely candidates when I decide to record. Also, this doesn't even scratch the surface of all the midi files that are out there on the net waiting to be used. I hope this helps to clarify things.

[This message has been edited by Bud Whipple (edited 04-11-2003).]

Bud, I totally agree.
Next Saturday I'm playing a three hour dance and will probably go through about 50 or more songs. I don't like to use the same style more than twice in three hours, and then carefully separated by about an hour or so. I may use the same basic style more than that, but altered with different intros, endings (or no prerecorded intro at all), and some parts muted.
This has nothing to do with how good or bad the built in styles are, only the need for variety.
So-o-o-o-o, I still continually look for new styles and steal the good parts and put them together as a custom style, almost always taylored for a particular song, and only used with that song if possible. It takes time, but worth it. Also, as time permits,I continually try to upgrade my styles because some that I have done really do need refining.
Walt

I too have to agree with Bud. The styles on board are very good and I use them a lot if they suit the song I am recording but that is not always the case.

Unlike Bud though I will use a certain style a number of times if it fits a certain song.
To me that is important. The music just seems to flow better when you match the song and style.
I will alter the style a little some times with the fill-in and performace pads.

This is what makes listening to other forum members songs so enjoyable. We all have our own way of recording and interpreting a song.

Alex

Bud and Walt, thanks a million. Your responses are exactly what I hoped they would be. The why of it. Why you do what you do. It seems the world has much to say about what people do and not so much interest in why things are done. For me, knowing the why of things has lead to a much fuller and pleasant sojourn on this earth. Has led to many more friendships and has eliminated many misunderstandings. It has opened my eyes to many things that I would never have tried or done on my own. One recent point is the ongoing discussion on chords and progressions from one musical key to another. If I can understand the why of it, the doing of it seems to be so much easier. Kind of like when I first got married. When Ruthie starched and ironed my shorts the first time she done our wash my first reaction was what kind of a dumb babe did I get myself hooked up with. I felt like saying to her how stupid can you be? Cooling down a bit I remarked how nice and neat but asked her the logic of, or the why of it. She followed with the thought I would be pleased how nice they looked and the special effort she put into it for my approval. Bless her little heart. Learning the why of it, the logic and the motivations gave me a completely new frame of mind and understanding. I could now see my real Ruthie. And so it is with you guys. Sharing what you do with why you do it has opened my eyes to many new horizons that would otherwise be untouched. This subject on recording has brought to light much more than just the method (easy record and multi tracking) but the total realm of what is used in the process and why. I for one have learned a lot. Now to put into practice new thoughts on the subject and break out of some of my narrow practices of the past. Thanks fellows and also much thanks to Ted for starting such a train of thought. By the way Walt, could you shoot me over a sample of what you have done along these lines to start me on the way?

Grandpa Doug

Doug, thanks for the nice reply -- Right On!
I'll be happy to send some samples, in fact I'm working (slowly) on getting enough stuff together for a CD. The problem is one of time. We have had the kitchen torn up with major remodeling since January and have been trying to work in between all the junk stacked on card tables, etc., that used to be in the kitchen cabinets. We have managed to eat, however, in spite of not ever being able to find what we are looking for at the time. It's almost finished, only have the floor and the wall tile to do. Then right behind it is some wiring in a room that we are having added to the house.
In between I'm active in Habitat for Humanity, the dinner theater, and a few gigs now and then.
The point being that the music recording business just seems to have to take a back seat right now. So --- be patient, and like the song goes, "BE HAAPPY" , I guess all will come in due time.
Regards to Ruthie (and you too) and everyone else,
Walt

Ted, I was just rereading the thread you started on 4/09/03 ‘Recording Songs’. My kids were after me for the last few years to record something so when I croaked they would have something to remember of my music playing days. One night last year about this time I recorded about ten songs on my 6500 and then burned them on to a CD for posterity. After giving it much thought I decided to record exactly the way they are used to hearing old pop play live for some of their parties or the dances or restaurants I play at. After Ruthie went to bed one night I started this undertaking about 10 PM and finished about 3 AM. Every song was played just like the board came out of the box. Just like I would set it up at a restaurant and play for three hours. Ninety nine and ninety nine one hundreds percent of the time I use only the rhythms and sounds that came with the KN. Yes I use the pads some times for solos’ but with restraint. (Nos. 5 and 6) I also use them (1 thru 4) to add to the rhythms for variation. I also use the sound arranger button for more of the same. Do you realize that will give you more than a dozen almost new sounding rhythms for just one single rhythm? Now try muting some of the accompaniments and or increasing or decreasing the tempo and wow! You could play for better than an hour and sound like you never used the same rhythm. This is one reason I very very seldom use imported styles. Over the last couple of weeks, because of this thread, I have again tried many of these converted styles and have not been convinced of their need except maybe for ethnic styles of one kind or another. I have found very few that can even match the quality of our KN styles. However there are a few from the older KN’s that I have loaded into the customs or put on my hard drive on the 65 or the SD in my 7. Now, how do I use the sounds with the rhythms? For the most part I use the Music Style Arranger (MSA). Press and hold that button and a window will pop up. I have it set to ‘Sound & Rhythm’. Therein lies the combinations that Technics has spent thousand upon thousands of dollars, multi thousands of dollars for top quality professionals to program. That’s it? No, no and no! Now comes the programable ‘Favorites Button’. Peep into that button and you will see I have hid all my favorite sounds. Yes all my favorite sounds in one place. Quick and easy for my pleasure to push at my very whim. For the sake of time I’m not even going to mention what's in the Panel Memories. With the aforementioned setup is how I play and also record live with the easy record. What you play is what you hear is what you get when you record. Neat, easy and clean. I sent these ten songs to Bebop for the 20 for 1 thing. I didn’t put the rhythms in the composer or the sounds into the PM so some of them won’t work on the 7000. Live and learn. Next time.

Anyway Ted, the reason for this post is because some of your questions were never answered. Quote:
1- These recordings were NOT made just using "Easy Record" because they are too elaborate. Can anyone explain in detail how to record in this manner, since it sounds, to me anyway, almost like more than one person playing all the instruments in the arrangements! Ted, most of the recording were using Easy Record.

2- Does anyone have any banks of Performance Pads to share for insertion into the blank spaces provided for additional ones on the 7000 (and others, I'm sure). Yes, I do. These can be purchased form technote and I don’t think they would like it if I gave them to you for nothing.

3 - I especially would love to have some Christmas ones (sleigh bells, etc.) to add spirit to some Christmas songs. Ted, I have done some of this kind of stuff for Christmas music via the sound arranger.

There are two ways I could help you out. One is to try to explain some of these things on this forum. Maybe I could attempt this for number 3 but as for number 1 we would have to sit side by side so you could see how these things work together. We have many senses to work with, but seeing with the eye and hearing with the ear conveys much more than words can. Words have differences in meaning to different people but what you see is what you get. So with that thought in mind what do you think about this solution? Ruthie and me go up to the fireside dinner theater to see every new offering. Top notch stuff! We also go up to the Wisconsin Dells six or seven times a year to see and hear the ‘Wisconsin Opry’ performances among other things. My first wife Ruthie and me love these sort of things for we are simple folk at heart. Some times Ruthie gets a notion in her cute little wrinkled head, like last year, when she took me up for a helicopter ride. Anyway we usually make a two or three day thing out of these little mini trips, as Ruthie calls them. We many times stay at one of the Madison motels because at the dells or by the Fireside you have to reserve them in advance. Ruthie and me have always done things on the spur of the moment as we do to this day. Therefore! Therefore if you think you would like to spend an afternoon trying to murder your keyboard and share some music and thoughts together, it might be fun. Maybe I could even talk you and the wife into being our guests for dinner. Let me know if this strikes your fancy.

Grandpa Doug and his Ruthie