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#56611 - 09/08/03 04:52 AM
Thank You Easy Record Players
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Member
Registered: 01/18/02
Posts: 242
Loc: UK
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I'm one of those sad cases who can only read from the dots, can't play by ear or from memory, so you know how it is - get a burning need to play a particular tune, visit music shop, no sheet music now available, only source is from busking book which contains the one song you want plus a load of others, most of which is, to me, rubbish music or stuff you already have. An expensive way of buying, and of filling all those shelves you've labourisly put up and hoping they'll take the weight......... BUT, Easy Recorded songs show all the chords, and it's just a question of slowing the tempo to the lowest level,40, and writing down the chord sequence, trying not to listen to the music at that speed - it sounds terrible, So thanks to you all. I love you all Ogre
_________________________
Peter
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#56612 - 09/08/03 05:32 AM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Member
Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 403
Loc: United Kingdom
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Hi Ogre,
You a sad case? No way! You sound very apologetic because you have to play using the dots. Don't apologize! Take pride in the fact you can read music!!!! Be happy about it!!!!
I've been corresponding with a person who is debating whether to take lessons and learn to read music or let an ear-player friend teach him to play by ear (which in addition, by the way, requires ear players to memorize everything they play) and I have counseled that it is far better to learn to read music. I have in the range of 4000 - 5000 pieces of music in my music library. There is no way an ear player can memorize that many tunes. As a "reader", I can play all of them if I practice. An ear player is limited to what is contained in his/her memory. Not only that, the chords an ear player uses may not be correct harmonically speaking which tends to spoil the song he/she is trying to play. If we "readers" play a song, the harmony and melody is always correct. And what if an ear player forgets a chord or melody note? He/she has to go back to the drawing board and "hunt and peck" until the problem is fixed. We readers just pick up the music and play. The notes and chords are correct today, tomorrow, next year, and . . . well, you get the idea.
Be happy that you are a reader, that you took the time and effort to acquire that skill! Yes, it is nice to have the Easy Record music to use to find chords for songs for which you have no music, and it is wonderful that our forum friends share their music with us. But never apologize for being "just a reader". So cheer up and be happy, Ogre.
Happy Playing (and READING!)
Chuck
[This message has been edited by Chuck Piper (edited 09-08-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Chuck Piper (edited 09-08-2003).]
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#56619 - 09/08/03 08:25 PM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
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Hello ogre, If you cna whistle ot hum the melody of a song, then you can play it by ear. Point; My wife started to take piano lessons at the age of five. She attended the School of Preforming Arts in N.Y.C.--The Moving picture Fame was about this school.
When she played on her Stienway Grand you sat up and listened---But---take the music away from her and she was helpless. She could not play the simplist of tunes without music.
Native ability is not the issue here. I have taught classes on,"How to play without music". The same subject was on TV some years ago, and is now again.
If I can hum/whistle the melody, I CAN FIND THESE NOTES ON MY INSTRUMENT!! When I decided to play keyboard, I made a decision not to rely on the music as I did with my guitar studies. My wife and daughter often complained about the wrong notes I was playing. I knew that given some time my mind and my hand would get together--and they did.
1-You can fake a melody--hit a wrong note and recover quickly--and the better the pro, the quicker the recovery--but a wrong chord will be noticed easily.
2-You must study about chords and chord progressions. Most everything else will fall naturally.
I have music on my stand whenever I preform--I use it as a guide. There have been times to my surprise, that I was not even playing the song that's in front of me.
1-And yes, over the years you will change some of the original notes of the song when you play by ear--and so what. I try never to play a song note for note as it is written. I want to take liberty, it adds ME to the song. No reflections on anyone else, but I bore easily when I hear a song played note for note.
Ogre, I am now teaching 6 students ages 65 to 83 years of age. They are all learning chord construction, chord progressions, chord substutions, and HOW TO PLAY WITHOUT MUSIC! Ogre, if you have the desire, you can and will do it--When Chet Atkins a famous guitarist was asked, "Do you read music?", His answer was, "NOT ENOUGH TO HURT MY PLAYING". So very, very true.
Happy Playing, John C.
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#56620 - 09/09/03 05:19 AM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Senior Member
Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
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{ When Chet Atkins a famous guitarist was asked, "Do you read music?", His answer was, "NOT ENOUGH TO HURT MY PLAYING" } I just LOVE that quotation I don't class myself as being able to read music, however, if I wish to learn a new song/tune and the only way is 'from the dots' then I can work out the melody line slowly from the sheet music. I can read chord symbols - having learned them many years ago, playing guitar in a big band. However, my preferred method of learning a new tune/song is to just listen to it on CD, tape, record or whatever, and work out the melody and chords with my God given ear and gut feeling. I know that I am extremely fortunate to possess this ability and that it is not something which can be easily learned - if it all. Some of the chords I use, may not be 'as written' in the sheet music, but I find that they fit and sound OK to me. As far as the melody is concerned, I never play a tune the same way twice. I play the melody and maybe even change or substitute a chord, the way I feel it, at the time I play. It's an instantaneous creative process which I think is in-born. Whilst not wishing to offend anyone, or belittle the ability to play from 'the dots' and I really admire those who can sight read, I feel that just playing exactly what is written on the sheet, without adding one's own 'personal touch', is a bit like putting a paper roll in a player piano. ------------------ Willum [This message has been edited by Bill Norrie (edited 09-09-2003).]
_________________________
Willum
After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is Music. Aldous Huxley ( especially when the music is played on a KN7000....)
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#56621 - 09/09/03 07:34 AM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Member
Registered: 10/02/02
Posts: 437
Loc: Silver City, NM USA
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Hi Everybody, I feel that being able to read music well enough to just sit down and play from the sheet is both a blessing - and a curse. The reason that I say this is that I can usually tell, just by listening, whether the artist is playing from the dots or not. Most that play from the sheet music tend to play without much expression, as Bill said "is a bit like putting a paper roll in a player piano". I never have learned to sight read more than single staff music because my first introduction to music was on the piano accordian and I never took piano lessons. When I started playing the organ in later life, I naturally continued in the same manner - read or memorize the right hand - make up the accompianament. It didn't sound right because until a friend (Grandpa Doug's brother Jim) showed me how to play counter melody with the left hand while beating out the chords, I didn't get that classic "organ sound". Years later, when I played organ every Sunday for the church, I used the same method to play the hymns and the congregation loved it. They had not heard church music played that way. (I call it "faking", but if it sounds good then people enjoy it). And as Bill said, I never play the same song the same way. So, the moral of the story is: If you want to be a classical, play by the rules, high technical skill keyboard player, then by all means learn to sight read well. If you want to be an entertainer, then learn enough reading skills to learn the song and then as you play it, make it sound good. To do this you have to learn to listen to yourself as you play - sometimes when you're busy reading music, you haven't got time to listen to what you are playing. Like they say, "Pay your money and take your choice!". Just my thoughts, Walt
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#56622 - 09/09/03 08:04 AM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2789
Loc: Lehigh Valley, Pa.
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I know one can read music, and fill in with your own personal touches. In fact, you should improvise some while reading music. To play the song exactly as it is written, could be boring. I read music and I am lost without it. My buddy plays by ear, and has no idea how to read music. We both wish, we could do what the other can do, as each has its own benifits. It's the musician, that can do both, that I really admire. SeeYa, Larry Hawk
_________________________
Larry "Hawk"
♫ 🎹🎹 ♫ SX-900
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#56625 - 09/09/03 12:03 PM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
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Originally posted by bruno123: Bill N, Says he listens for the feel of the song. He is right on.
How true, my two examples;
1-How would it be possible to feel what the person who wrote the song was feeling when he was writing the song--interpitation.
2-If were possible, the well trained clasical musician should sound great when he plays pop music. This is normally the case, even though his reading abilities are excelent.
I said to my friend,"Music makes you feel good". In his friendly he replied,"No John, music makes you feel, period".
On that note --opps---My Dad was a clasical/pop piano player---boy, could he read music. Now I know he had to have read and studied many of the pieces he played---but I never saw a sheet of music on the piano when he was playing for people.
Both methods of playing music must be applauded. One is so helpful and guides us, on the others adds so much of the emotion.
Enjoy playing in any way you wish it's all fun. John C.
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#56626 - 09/09/03 03:21 PM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Member
Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 480
Loc: The Plantation, Leesburg, Flor...
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I suppose I subscribe to the Walt Meyer way of playing. I read the sheet and play until I have it memorized, then go off on my own. I pretty much stick to the written music, but it also has my own twist on it. Whenever I play something new or unknown, I just keep playing along until something clicks, then I know I have it nailed. I played by ear for many years, but it has it's limits, so I learned to sight read, and the big notes in the music books certainly helped. I'll never be a piano player, but with the assistance of Technics, I won't have to lose any sleep over it.
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#56630 - 09/10/03 01:44 AM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Member
Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 96
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An interesting bunch of replies, so I thought I might add my own "two-penn'orth". Many years ago I did an extended spell as a "depping" organist - deputising for organists who were sick, on holiday, etc. This involved travelling to strange clubs, confronting (often) strange organs, and accompanying "cabaret" with a strange drummer. For anyone who has not actually done this, I can tell you it is a "school of hard knocks", where you quickly learn new musical skills or perish. Often the "artistes" would ask for the music to be played in a different key to the dots - and this long before the advent of keyboards with transpose buttons. Usually we (me and the drummer) had about 5 minutes to understand what the artistes required and then we "were on". About the same period, I had a weekly live half-hour show playing organ on local radio. This, again, was truly hair-raising at first. The idea was that I played requests as they came in during the program from telephone calls. There was no question of sorting out the dots - too slow - so I had to either play the requests or admit (on the air) that I didn't know them. Well, you can't do the latter too often and keep your spot. I can truly say that those experiences were the ones where I really learned my craft. Mike O'R
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#56631 - 09/10/03 10:46 AM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Member
Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 554
Loc: Prospect Heights IL USA
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Home life and growing up, influence and personality. People are made up of emotions, greatly formed by the previous and present experiences of just plain living. Anger, love, hatred, peace, happy, sad and on and on. All things seem to be controlled by these. Politics, religion, marriage, everything, even the music we play and the choices of the instruments we play. I would venture to say that the way we play has a great deal to do with how we have dealt with our emotions and attitudes and even our God given talents. We have not all been given the same abilities and gifts of talents but one thing we all have been given is free will. This is God given without respect of persons or recall. Man will try to usurp this and put his fellow man in bondage. Bondage to ideas, things, money, booze, religion, politics or what have you. Now this seems to be the big struggle in our life time. To be free. To be free to use our free will. To gain control of our emotions, our frustrations, our anger and yes, even our feelings of love. Now this is where my music has been so very important in my life and also in my brothers. My parents and my own Grandma and Grampa. During the depression we all lived in the same house. When emotions ran high, when bills had to be paid or when Gramps had words with my Dad, old Gramps would walk over to the piano and pound out an old Rag. I would sense the frustration emanating from his finger tips. After a bit, a ballad would start filling the room and when he drifted into a love song, old Gram would slide alongside of him on the bench and would sing bits and pieces of the song with her squeaky operatic type voice. Pretty soon Dad would be seen cranking up the tension on his fiddle bow and then the happy old tunes would fill the air with Dad sawing out ‘The World Is Waiting for the Sunrise’, his favorite. Me brother and me would get out the lincoln logs and the led solders. Life was great. Kind of like David playing the Kings demons to hell. All my life I have used music to temper and quell my emotions. What a blessing to come in from dealing with the public all day and play through my emotions. Maybe a little blues or something in the minor on the piano, finally lifting my mood to the point I would get up, give Ruthie a great big smacker and help or play with the kids a bit. Friday would come. What a great feeling to play the weekend away with the band. When I was a kid in my last year of high school playing in a seven piece dance band at a night club in Jacksonville Fla., the other sax man said to me. Kid, I think your scared. Your horn is playing you. When you start playing it, that’s when you’ll start to swing. Never forgot that! Attitude! Just plain attitude! When you take control of your instrument and don’t let it control or intimidate you, things happen. So, monday morning would come and back to work again. Refreshed and ready, thanks to my love of music. No more dance band but me, myself and my keyboard are still working magic for Ruthie and me. For my emotions, my attitude on life and our joy of living out the twilight of our lives in what you might call harmony. And now you know the why of and the how of how I approach and play my music. I believe attitude and playing by the rules that God set are the secrets of life and happiness. Something that can be attained by anyone, in any walk of life or economic circumstance. Freely given by God, not man, Free Will. Our choice, to do or not to do. To change or not to change. Attitude! Just plain attitude!
Grandpa Doug
_________________________
Grampa Doug
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#56632 - 09/10/03 02:18 PM
Re: Thank You Easy Record Players
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Senior Member
Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
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Hi G. Doug, Your story about You, God, Music,and Life--Was beautiful, it said so much, much more than most care to talk about. That's got to make you somene special!!
In my terrible years, of divorce, and famuly seperation, I lived with a sick feeling right in the center of me. When the curtain went up, and we began to playwith my band, I was a different person, there was life. After the four hour gig/job, I returned to the reality of my life. Music does play a special part of our lives, our emotions. I can't imagine going through my worst times without it.
I now consider myself a happy person, A good wife, a nice home, good finances, and a strong relationship with my maker.
With all of those blessings, I still go to a special place when I sit at the keyboard. AMEN!!!
Have a good day, John C.
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