As amateur keyboardplayer I wonder how many times do you play a song from sheetmusic or by head, with all in and outs , before you can store it perfect in your keyboard or SD card ?

Jack

Gee Jack, that depends on the song. Back before I knew how to use all the gizmo's on the keyboard, I spent better than a month on "76 Trombones" because I had to be note prefect in one take. But, with expertise that comes from learning one's instrument, sometimes I can do two songs in one night. I usually spend hours in practice because I try out a lot of styles before the "right" one comes along. Some songs I leave just the way they were recorded, and some I fix with the sequencer editors.

The better a person is at reading music or at playing by ear, (I do both), probably determines how complex the song will be. Some prefer to record live, like myself, and others set up controls beforehand. I might spend a year getting ready to record 15 songs, then finish in two weeks. I try to keep the music simple, other prefer to layer the sounds, and some of the players on this forum are amazing! It all stems on how much time you want to put into your song choice and how good you want it to sound. In my case, the more time spent in practice, the better the results!

Have a Happy Holiday!

Hello,

What almost never happens it that I know in the morning that I have dreamed. This morning it was so far. I have dreamed that at work they told me that they will seek other work, because for my job they found somebody else, I have dreamed about photography project, very abstract and vague and music. And what only happened once or twice before in my life: I got a song in my dream which I could remember in the morning. During visitng the market place I "forgot" the song but later in the afternoon it came back. So before forgetting is again I made a sequence have made an mp3 of my "Dream Song". Less than one hour work. Some times I can spend hours without results. It all depends on inspiration.

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Hi Folks!

This is an interesting topic! I have my keyboard permanently linked to a Mini Disk Recorder which is running all the time I'm playing the KN7. As I only read the melody notes and chord symbols, I do not use the sequencer and but only 'tweak' the KN's in-built features which, I have to say serve me very well. However, nine times out of ten when I feel a piece of music is 'just right' and save it to whatever, invariably when I play it back sometime later, it's "rubbish". Ocasionally, it is 'just right', but not very often. We have discussed this at our Club and most of our members have experienced this as well. Still! it keeps the brain active and the fingers nimble and it is fun trying different rhythms for the same song.

Aud (U.K.)

I feel it is important to do the following before attempting the song.
1-Study the chord progression. Is it familiar?
2-What key is it written in, and are there any key changes.
3-What is the mood/feeling of the song.
4-What is the tempo of the song?
5-Match a style to fit the feeling.

This really does not take too long -- and you may learn something you can use when learning your next song.

Now how many times do I play the song?
As many times as it takes to make the song sound reasonably good.

John C.

WOW Jack,

I read this board every day, but I’m seldom motivated to write. You have asked the key question for every player. How do you apply the creative process in recording a song and how much time do you spend to do it?
I start very much like Bud does. I play the song over and over again. This not only helps for me to be comfortable with the song, but also offers opportunities to consider chord substitutions that might enrich the song and leads to how the styles might evolve.

The first step is to find an Intro that sets the mood. I look for a solo voice in the intro that will continue through the opening verse of the song. The intro doesn’t have to be the one that is with the main style of the song. And, the solo voice can easily be changed to match the opening voice of the song.

I then plan how the right hand voices will change through the song and place them in sequence in the Panel Memory. Then the styles are added to each PM. If the song allows, I find it interesting to change to a different style in the bridge of the song. I try to pay attention to the voices in the style so they aren't in conflict with the lead voices. At times it helps to eliminate a voice or adjust the levels so that the evolution of the song is interesting, but not confused.

At this point I’m ready to record. I seldom get it on the first try. Since I’m looking for a recording without any errors, It may take 3 or 4 to get a clean sequence. I then put it to bed and listen again the next morning. While using headphones I adjust the levels again and pan the lead as well as the style voices to make a nice mix. It’s important to set the recording aside again. Another listening frequently reveals a change that can make a big difference.

It’s hard to judge just how long this takes, but I do know that a 15 song CD project takes about two months to complete.

Frank

Jack, an interesting question. I imagine that you might get as many answers as there are performers.
I'll try to give you conditions under which I record.

[*]First of all, everything that I play and record is done live with no tweaking of any kind.

[*]I seldom use the styles and voices as "out of the box" but,as Frank described, adjust the choice of styles and voices along with tweaking of levels, etc to suit the song as best as I can. Each change is saved to panel memory and I use the foot switch to increment the panel memory, except that the last panel memory that will be used has the foot switch set so as to return to memory number one.
This serves two purposes. To allow playing the song for as long as desired and to prevent switching to a blank or wrong panel memory by mistake.

[*]So far I have saved setups for about 140 songs this way and keep adding as time allows.

[*]I don't really worry about making anything perfect - just so that it can be enjoyed by my audience.

[*]Most of the songs that I have recorded have been recorded while actually playing for a dance or concert, others specifically for recording purposes.

[*]So far I have made three CD's totalling about 50 songs and have spent very little time doing so, since as I said, most were recorded while performing.

As you can imagine, most of the time spent is in the initial choosing of styles, voices, tweaking and saving to panel memory for each song. Of course practising each song is an on going process.
Walt

This is great information! Thank you Jack for asking the question & for all the super responses that have followed.

Among the greatest things about the AWESOME 7K are the quality of the sounds, the many places to store your "stuff", & the many ways to "tweak" the sounds, rhythms, & all the other wonderful things in the 7K....

Reading all the above responses to Jack's question has brought others to mind....about ways to store data in the Panel Memories.

Mostly what I do is tweak sounds to my liking & store favored instruments in the sound memory...sometimes I combine instruments in the 4 spaces that allow this to be done...("Program Menus" > "Sound Edit" > "Tone" > "Tone Select"). example: a couple of piano sounds with a violin, or an organ or two...whatever you want!

There are favored rhythms I select frequently for many tunes....I enjoy trying different rhythms for favored songs... example: "We Three Kings"....works well to my ear with the "Sirtaki"... also I use Boogies & Polkas for "Suzy Snowflake" & other Christmas tunes that sound good to me played in very non-traditional rhythms...

To avoid listening to the same old same old instruments & the same old same old rhythms, I change the registrations & store the results in panel memory & mark my music sheets (in pencil) as to which PM the preferred registration has been stored. With good planning I can move from one registration to another in the same PM while playing the tune more than once....Each change of rhythms in the same PM provides a very different group of sounds....It is much like using the "Music Style Arranger", only the changes are greater....it keeps me awake & my audiences seem to like the results as well!

Another thing I do is punch a lot of buttons during my play....I use the "Performance Pads", the "Techni-chord", & "Solo"... Sometimes I jump up to the Sound Memory to find another instrument to insert....then can jump to a new or the same PM button to change things once again! The fill-in buttons help make a bit of time to do this kind of button pushing....

I think my method may differ somewhat from those described above....

As for using the sequencer... I have not done a lot of that as I usually "screw it up" ....lot's of errors!

Am I having fun??? YES! YES! YES!

ELIZABETH

Elizabeth, this is exactly the way I work. I could not have explained it better.

The only other thing I perhaps do differently to you, is if I have a 'gig' I like to make a rough programme of medleys, singalong, dance-along that sort of thing which I then save to floppy as I go along. There are 2 reasons for this, one I get a ready made backup and the other is it is quicker to get the SD card to copy the floppy when all 20 tracks are finished and the plus is, all my gear is linked to the CD recorder and as the floppy is the finished article, this can then be copied to CD. My music is then marked with the SD Card numbers eg.: 1GB-01/44-05 making it quick and simple to load when playing live. For me the time taken varies with the music I'm trying to put together, not the recording.

It is very interesting to hear how others work isn't it?

Regards,

Aud (U.K.)

I have 2 primary purposes for arranging all my songs on the sequencer:

1. So I can listen to them now and when I cannot play any longer.

2. To share with the forum.

For each song the basic steps I take are:

Clear the song in the sequencer.

I then load the chosen rhythms into the memory banks (A B C banks with 4 variations each) giving me 12 different rhythms to choose from as I sequence the song (This is in addition to the standard rhythms already available in the keyboard).

Load chord info into the track 4 CHD for the first chorus, and then I add the chords to this track as I progress through the various chorus sections.

As I sequence the songs, I work on about 4 to 8 bars at a time. I am the care giver for my sick wife so I can only find a few minutes at a time to get to the keyboard.

I usually choose a different rhythm and instrument sound for each 4 or 8 bar section. And then I add the additional parts to the arrangement as I progress with each different section.

I usually play each recorded section several times in order to adjust the volume of the various recorded sounds.

I record all changes in volume, sounds, rhythms, Techni Chords, and tempo via the Panel Memories. For one song, I usually utilize all the Pamel Memories in bank A and sometimes even to into Bank B to finish the song.

I document all the details of the arrangement (volume, sounds, rhythms, TC's, Fill ins, etc on paper so I can make any desired additions, changes etc, quickly without having to find the location of each recorded passage as I play the finished song and look for any additional changes.

Before considering the arrangment completed, I listen to it for 5 to 10 times to make sure I do not need to make any further changes.

It takes me about 2 weeks to complete one arrangement, however with my schedule of only having a few minutes at a time to work on the arrangement, it is about a 4 to 8 hour job in total to do one arrangement.

I feel that the KN7000 has the most powerful sequencing program of any keyboard brand and it is the fastest most comprehensive sequencing system which saves me a lot of time.

Larry Gosmeyer

Larry, I fully understand your situation since I've been there many times myself in the 40 years of our marriage. Sometimes the closest I could get to my keyboard was in passing from doing one chore to another. The precious moments finally spent in actual playing was truly sweet and blissful, but sort of hard to describe to someone who can play whenever they want. My "quiet time" was from 11pm to 1am then off to bed for a few hours before the daily routine started all over again. These times of strife caring for a sick spouse are truly labors of love and will certainly bring you blessings from above.

I also document every variation change, each different instrument plus blends, and all important information necessary to re-record the song if the need arises. My notebooks go back as far as my first keyboard (a Casio) and are useful for reference as well as my archive lists for different styles, since I only record a style once.

There's a learning curve involved with these complex keyboards, but we just keep evolving with knowledge gained through routine or experimenting, or the forum, and hope someday to gain the expertise of the other player on the forum we just listened to. You know, that guy named Larry Gosmeyer.

Keep the faith, my friend. Stay strong through the coming year, keep your soul mate happy and secure and remember that there really is a reason for everything that happens in our lives.



[This message has been edited by Bud Whipple (edited 12-12-2005).]

AUDREY... Yes! Yes! Yes! How much FUN would it be to jam together! ... I too read only the treble clef & chord symbols....

Working with the computer is something I do not do very much.....However, it is something I want to become proficient with! My computer has the capacity to "burn" CD's... (I actually did one of Richard Child....His voice & music are magnificent!) I have a "reader" to transfer data from the 7K to the computer...just need to work with it all often enough to be able to accomplish good results without having to go through the learning process each time!

Mostly I just want to sit at the 7K....turn pages....& play the hours away! Having an audience is wonderful once in awhile....having a jam is even more fun!

ELIZABETH

I can not achieve perfection, but the love and enjoyment that music and keyboards brings sits and waits for us. Years ago I learned to accept me, that followed by me accepting the music abilities that God has given me ? and they ain?t that great. I lived with a Dad who was a concert piano player, his dad sent him to Italy for his music education.
After two weeks of piano instructions given by my perfectionist Father I decided to turn to guitar. I did well with the guitar, studied for years, I loved it, and I gave lessons and played professionally for many years.
I felt comfortable sitting up on the stage and playing my guitar, I was good. But ----- whenever I became aware of the presence of another guitar player, or who I thought was another played guitar I would freeze up, my hands would not respond, the joy of Playing and performing left me. Later that year I after a bit of self-examination, I had to admit I was not the best guitar player, nor was I even close to being the best guitar --- nor was I willing to give the effort that would make me that better guitar player. So with this new revelation I was no longer threatened by another performer, this is me and that?s it, I accept me, let?s enjoy music.
Amazing---- After my revelation and acceptance of myself my playing began to improve, I venture to areas I had avoided, took the risks. A wrong note lost its importance. Amen!

John C.

That was streat from your heart Bruno
I appriciate this, specially in this Christmas time

Thanks

Jack

John C.
I can fully relate to what you have said.
I used to play Hammond organ - used lead sheets or just melody and made up the rest on the fly. In other words, I would say that I was a "Bar Room Organist".
After I retired we were in an RV park where they wanted to start a non-denominational chapel service. I had been entertaining in the park so they asked if I would be the organist for the services.
Since I had never played church music in my life and could not read 3 staff music, I promptly said no! Then I thought about it and said to myself "you dummy, here's a chance to learn something new - but - i'll do it my way, take it or leave it".
To make a long story short I faked my through the hymns - everyone liked the music and said "we've never heard those songs played that way and it puts a whole new spirit and spin on worship music". Mind you now, the music wasn't really changed but simply interpreted a little differently using more solo voices, less 6 or 8 finger chords that make everything sedate and muddy, and a little bass pedal rhythm and the use of some alternate chords.
I ended up as a full fledged church organist playing for over 6 years in the local Methodist church.
If I hadn't overcome the intimidation that I felt when first asked to do this, I would have missed some very important hours of musical enjoyment.
Walt

Walt, I love your post, I got the feeling you would be a good man to visit on my next trip when I get to that part of the country.

John C.