Let me preface this post as follows:

I am a cynic and a sceptic.

I have a serious aversion to marketing and consuming (my only major weakness being music CDs of which I have consumed several thousand). Generally my first impression of any new product is more negative than positive. However I can be swayed with time.

So here goes.

Today I went to the Consumer Electronics Show Australasia in Sydney (where I live). My brother who works for Sony had free passes otherwise there is no way I would pay to let somebody try to sell me something!

It never occurred to me that the KN7000 might be there, but THERE IT WAS! Sitting in a forgotten corner next to various laptops and other computer related products. Not only that but it was switched on with a pair of headphones at the ready.

On a little plaque was written “KN7000, available September 2002, recommended retail price $6,999.00”. That’s Australian dollars of course.

The appearance:
In a word, plasticy. Probably more so than the 6000 (my current keyboard). The flip-top control panel doesn’t appear to lock when in the closed position. It just sits closed on its own weight. I could be wrong though because I didn’t check closely. The black stuff above the keys is soft material probably shielding the connectors between the 2 sections of the keyboard.

The screen as can be seen from already available photos is unchanged. The panel memories are now in a circular push button arrangement with the set button in the middle as mentioned in another post.

Sound:
First of all I tried it through the speakers but it was hardly audible due to all the surrounding noise, so on went the headphones. As a result I can’t comment on the speakers.

Styles and sounds:
Now I don’t have a photographic memory so this is what I remember from 2 hours ago, and about 10 minutes at the keyboard in less than ideal surroundings. Most of the styles I recognised by name from the 6000. Auditioning them confirmed that they were essentially identical to the 6000 styles. Same with the sounds. Of course the additional sounds and styles that were added on the 6500 (which I haven’t played) were also included (I recognised these by name only). Undoubtedly there must be a few new styles and sounds on the 7000 but I believe it is no more than a few and in the short time I was there I can honestly say I couldn’t find them!

Summary:
Very disappointing. The 7000 is NOT a revolution. I am hard pressed to even say it is evolutionary. This is a keyboard with basically one innovation, namely the SD memory storage card.

However having said that, I am not computer literate and I did not check the rear connections and even if I did I don’t think I am qualified to comment. So perhaps there is more innovation going than I am aware of.

I am disappointed. Not disappointed in it as a keyboard because I love the 6000 and therefore I should logically also love the 7000. But disappointed in it as a legitimate upgrade. That it isn’t.

Is it worth the upgrade? I can’t answer that of course. Many people on this forum upgraded from 6000 to 6500 and were satisfied, so to each his/her own I guess.

In the end, and once all the hype has died down, the surprising conclusion might be that the improvements/additions from 6000 to 6500 (I guess I’m talking styles and sounds here) might end up being greater than those from 6500 to 7000, if you ignore the superficial design changes.

………..but remember, I’m a cynic and a sceptic!

I disagree about the one big innovation: the big innovation for me is the usb connection. We have a constant stream of posts about 'how do I make a cd?' - this solves a host of problems at one stroke.

Being able to record 16 bit 44.1 kHz audio directly to your hard disk, with no analogue stages, no additional effects from your soundcard, theoretically no audible difference between the cheapest and most expensive computer is a major step forward, for me at least. You can make cds now, easier than you could make cassettes in the past, and with none of the hiss, distortion, and inadequate dynamic range. Many have cdrw on their computers, many can now make a cd in around 5 minutes. All the problems of transferring the very high quality output of the KN without losing any of it in the pc have been solved. I have been using usb audio soundcard for a while and am very much in favour of this move.

There are plenty of workstation type features in the existing kn already, but final wave editing or even wave multitracking will now be so easy on the pc, and still get a top quality result.

This is the future, because hardware effects units are soon going to be out of date, replaced by the flexibility of software. Pc power has reached the stage where you virtually don't need hardware anymore. The big problem always was analogue in a pc - this solves it.

I believe that absolute beginners will be able to produce cds easier with the usb than has ever been the case before, and with virtually guaranteed top quality results. More experienced pc sound manipulators can play away with wave files with no worries about loss of quality.

The sd card is another paragraph, but let's see exactly what is built in there first.

As to the rest of it styles, voices, blah-blah - that is the same as every other model replacement, everyone will make their own mind up if it is worthwhile for them.

Alec

This is a genuine question, not just a response to your response.

Is a usb connection on an arranger keyboard an innovation, or have other manufacturers already done it?

[This message has been edited by peter castanos (edited 06-16-2002).]

I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that this Quote: "the big innovation for me is the usb connection" isn't a lot of use to anyone without a computer. It would be interesting to know what percentage of keyboard owners have a computer? I'm sure somebody will know the answer.

Yes, it's odd. Almost as if the keyboard has a split personality. On the one hand it adds "serious" features like the usb but on the other it's looking increasingly like a (very expensive) toy!

no one has done it on a comparable mass market easy play general arranger before, so far as I can see. The first comparable mass market product was maybe the panasonic np10, which worked well when I tried it, but the 7k goes further still.


By definition every one on this forum must have a computer. All they need is a cdrw and writing software to make cds with the 7k. An audio recorder software is apparently supplied on the cd. After answering many queries and questions about this for a long time I think this will be a big plus point for first time pc users, and those who have never tried it before, certainly easier than it ever has been before.

I find it hard to believe that there are many purchasers of products in the 7k type league that don't have a pc... How can you get along without a pc nowadays? And what on earth is the point of buying equipment with good pc features if you don't have a pc?

Good one Johm, I remember the Technote mag. had a survey, and one of the questions was, do you own a computer, answer, I think, was 42%. No matter, what they did not ask was, do you use it for music. Perhaps a different story, the only three people I know who do are school music teachers. I am constantly impressed, and amazed, at the knowledge Alec, and others, have on this subject.
I consider myself technical and I woud'nt have a clue how to go about it. It would intrest me as to how they started and progressed!!
Walter.

I probably do far more wave file and mp3 work on the pc now than midi. Far more possibilities and fun. The software samplers and looping arrangers available are amazing.

The next big area of expansion is video. A dvd can be compressed down to 2 cds in mpeg4, and then viewed on your handheld personal digital assistant.

Midi is getting to be a little old hat in comparison. But there's still nothing easier than pressing easy record and off you go...

In my case the earthly point was the quality of the styles and sounds which wasn't matched on cheaper models.

sure, like I said in the first place:

As to the rest of it styles, voices, blah-blah - that is the same as every other model replacement, everyone will make their own mind up if it is worthwhile for them.

no different to any other decision at any other time for any other product really.

Does anyone know if the style conversion action has been improved on the 7000, and whether it now covers all other manufacturers's styles?

The 6000 system is slow and tedious having to insert one disk and then another..

Peter

we'll have to see. The only real way of faster operation is to spend money on the EMC software. That just zips along on the pc, but we are still waiting to see if 6000 format will ever be implemented for all the useful pc editing functions (it only works up to 5000 format at the moment).

However I did have a conversation with the programmer at Frankfurt and there is a possibility the 7k comes with the updated conversion disk with Yamaha and a few other new models incorporated. Again we just have to wait and see.

I guess I will throw my 2 cents in here. 1st off, I like the way my 6500 is set up. The buttons are close to the keys and in an excellent arrangement! The 7000 has moved them up, and from what I saw in the picture of the 7000 they are not arranged as well, making it not as user friendly. A huge pull up panel is more for looks than anything and I think is meant to impress the eye. More styles? Yeah, but why do I care about that when I dont use many of them anyways. They are not good for original rock or country music. And last, companies upgrade as little as possible to sell the new model. If they upgrade too much, too many people upgrade and that puts many used say 6500's on the market, causing less sales of new 6500's and still less 7000's. The object is to sell new models while keeping the value of the older model up as high as they can. If the 7000 was really really greater than the 6500, then the 6500 would go way down in value and they still want to make a good buck on the older technology. When video games went from 32 bit to 64 bit, there was little graphic improvement. Some of super nes games were as good as some of the n64 graphics. Thats stategic marketing, and any smart company will do it. My guess and I repeat guess,,, it that the 7000 has no big improvements on existing features and sounds. Although there are new features that are very nice. I want to also add that for 3000 bucks my 6500 sounds are rather thin, and why not 128 note polyfony instead of 64. 6500 was overpriced and so will be the 7000.
Tony

the marketing has always been strange in the USA, with the price differentials to competition, and thus the value, the other way round to here, and some other countries. I've recieved many mails over the years about this from America. I think it's the main reason why the kns have not the market share there that they have in some other countries, although choice of preset styles may be a secondary factor.