Just like to know how the transpose feature works. I have a midi file that I like to transfer some tracks to the composer. But I don't know what key to use for the transpose. That's because I don't know what key the midi song is played in. Do I need to know it and enter that key?

How does one go about using the transpose feature correctly for seq to composer copy?

Do midi files contain info somewhere on what key it's played in?
Thanks,

Anthony

Hi Anthony,
I have used the seq to composer feature on my kn7 on the odd occasion, but my sources have been midifiles created from keyboard styles, or midifiles created from BIAB program. Therefore I had the option of recording the midifile based on the cmaj chord. I only used the transpose feature to lower or raise ( by an octave) any of the tracks that needed adjusting.

In your case I tend to think you will need to work out what chords are being used in the section of music you are trying to create the style from.
Just say you pick a particular 4 bars. If there's no chord changes in those bars, it should be fairly simple to do, once you work out what the chord is.
If there are chord changes within the 4 bars , it will be more difficult. I think you actually have to then transpose the parts so that they're all using the same chord ie c/f/g/c , you'd need to transpose the middle ones to c/c/c/c. ( don't accidently transpose the drum parts (heehee)
It might be easier to work out what the chords are in a software sequencer where you can see a score. If you don't have one,
P. G. Music has a demo of power tracks available for download. Even though you can't save anything, I'm fairly certain you can import midifiles into it, and you should be able to view the midifile.

best wishes
Rikki




[This message has been edited by rikkisbears (edited 07-27-2003).]

Thanks for some feedback in this area.

However I think you confused me more than I was before. How does this work? What's the theory behind it? Please don't quote out of the manual, that doesn't help.

Best way to explain this is doing an example. Seems like this feature is so complicated I wonder how many use it? It also looks like 3rd party software is needed too.

I guess it depends on what is being converted. Lets start simple, using one measure with 4 quarter note chords. G chord, G7 chord, D7 chord and D chord. Using the seq to comp copy could this be done using transpose C? If so, what would be the final outcome of the measure? And would it work as intended?

Anthony

Ok, instead of taking a midi and work from it, I decided to simulate a midi sequence by just recording R1 with a few chords and runs. Then seq to comp copy to see the results. Interesting...

One does have to know the key/chord for that measure(s) to transpose correctly into the composer. I purposely played using just Chord D/key D, and used 0 for transpose. It didn't match at all. But then I used -2, and the composer part did match.

In another test sequence, I played various key chords, and tried to transpose them over. Did not fair to well. It looks like whatever you want converted must be in the same chord with no changes for the whole set of measures you want to convert over. As you said chord changes would be difficult. One measure at a time.

I don't think it's possible if there are chord changes within the measure using seq to comp copy. So I guess were out of luck in that situation? Unless a third party software is used.

Am I getting to understand this more, or am I still missing the concept?

Anthony

Hi Anthony,
I'm no expert on the subject & quite frankly the manual is pretty useless on the subject.
As I mentioned earlier I haven't tried a midifile / seq with chord changes recently ( the last time was when I had my kn5 which goes back 6 years, so I'm a bit rusty on the matter)
From memory Intro's & Endings I beleive can actually have chord progressions in them.
The 4 variations & fills shouldn't have chord changes in them. They should either be based on a maj or min chord and you actually identify which key & type it is ie cmaj cmin dmaj etc or else the composer won't play it correctly. There is a setting in the composer where you identify the key/chord you have used.
The KN7 also allows tensions ( haven't worked that one out yet, though I have noticed d's & a's in what is supposedly a c maj chord within some of the onboard styles).

If your sequence has chord changes within one bar, I don't think the composer transpose function will work as there doesn't appear to be an increment smaller than 1 bar. It may be possible to do it in a software sequencer, but still not an easy task. Probably why I gave up on it years ago.

If on the other hand you only had 1 chord change on each of the 4 bars, ie
1 bar g, 1 bar c, 1 bar f, 1 bar cm,
pick one of the bars and transpose the other 3 bars to make all the bars have the same chord ie all c or all g.

Just out of interest, does the piano have the easy composer feature? where you dial up up different style parts to create new styles. I'm working on that feature at the moment on my kn7.

]Hi Anthony,

I sometimes make a style from a midifile.
In the beginning it is a lot of try and error. But after a while you find out your working methode.
Like you say, knowing the Key of the song is the most inportant. So if you have no good ears to find it out or a small portion of the theory than the falling can help you. It helped me.

Use a program that is able tot convert chords out of the midifile.

Midinotate is a good one. Free to use for 30 days and that program is able to make so called leedsheats or a fakebook and print it all for you during 10 days and the other days only page one.

So than you have a sheet which contains the chords. Load the part(s)(measures) you need form your midifile via seq to composer than transpose every part and messure.

e.g. measure one says at the sheet Emaj than all the notes you find in that measure lower with 4 or up wiht 7
then that measure is in the Cmaj key etc ect.. Do this with all the tracks and measures in the composer following the leadsheet with the chords.
It is no work when you are in a hurry. And with the * (stars) as a dot instead of the real notes it can took you a long time. Even when expression and pitch bend is used a lot.
Many dots (*) before you find a * which is a note.
But it works.

Another program that also include the possibility of recording audio is Powertracks Pro 8. Also a demo avalable.

If you want to do it a little easier use, buy the program from EMC, styleworks. But you still have to make some changes.

rgds.
Willem

[This message has been edited by waterschip (edited 07-28-2003).]

[This message has been edited by waterschip (edited 07-28-2003).]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm getting to understand this feature now little by little. And finding out it's not all that great, just a so-so conversion utility. A person will need 3rd party software for the unknown chords and the complicated patterns.

I won't be using the seq to comp copy as much as I thought and will use it for the little stuff, and tweaking. It looks like one will have to get involved for the big stuff and I don't want to go that route, takes the fun out of playing.

Rikki, the PR804 does have easy composer record. You can assign various composer parts and make your own pattern set. Not sure on the KN, but on the PR you can only take from the presets.

Again...THANKS for all the feedback.

Anthony

Hi Anthony,
as I probably mentioned earlier, I've used the seq to composer function, but really only with styles from my other keyboards & from BIAB program. This gives me the option of recording the midifile as one long
c chord, with intro's , variations & fills.
In short I've done all the hard work in my computer including taking notes on where all the various style parts start & finish.. Once I've done that, the process of seq to composer is really quite simple.

The KN7 appears to use the internal parts for easy composer also, wheras my 9000pro lets one use external styles as well, and you also know exactly which style part you're using, which is a bit of a bonus.
Just wondering if you actually use it to any degree. I used to use the feature on my kn5 years ago, when I couldn't find a style to suit a song.

best wishes
rikki

Hello Rikki:

The keywords you said are: "You done all the hard work on the computer..." I was hoping (wishful thinking on my part) that the seq to comp copy would do it ALL...

I also have a PR900 and as you did with the KN5000 I used the Easy Composer Record for awhile a some time ago. Matter a fact, the PR900 has more choices compared to the PR804.

The PR804 has an 8 APC accomp parts. I'm finding out accomp 4 and 5 are usually blank. Opens the door for possibilities.

Anthony

Hi Anthony,
technically speaking, you can do it all, but to me it's so much easier to identify a chord in notation form. Some external sequencers are really inexpensive nowadays and a lot of the companies have demo's you can download & try, before you buy. Powertracks is quite a good one. http://www.pgmusic.com/powertracks.htm
It just depends on how keen you are on creating styles from midifiles.

I've just gone through the whacky exercise of recording in the individual parts in the easy composer.
It's sometimes a bit of a hit & miss affair trying to use the function, as you don't really know what's going to pop up as you scroll thru. Might be looking for a string part, and in the meantime you have anything from brass to piano popping up.
I figured if I could identify the parts ie string part as being 8 beat accomp 5 no32 etc
it would save a bit of time instead of just scrolling thru all the parts willy nilly looking for strings. I'd know which numbers to dial up and audition.

The fun part now will be to try catalogue them with some sort of meaningful description . (I'm always coming up with some hair brained idea (haahaa)

best wishes
Rikki