Just came across a chord chart which I had completely forgotten I had. This was copied from the manual for the Yamaha PSR8000 owned for a short while and disposed of in favour of the Kn6000. The chart lists all the chord types which the Yamaha could read (35 repeat 35 in all) and also showed the notes to be played for each chord.

Now, I'm pretty sure that the manuals for the SMAC1200 and Kn3000 also displayed such a list but I can't re-call if the 6000 did. Certainly, the playable chords are not listed in the Kn7000 manual, so I decided to see how Technics managed against Yamaha.
No problem with the first few chords, a C chord played displayed C, C9 displayed C9, but then odd things happened, Just a few examples follow:-

C6(9) - notes played c d e g a - produced
A7sus4 display.
CM7(9) - notes c d e g b - produced Em7.

CM7#11 - notes c d e f# g b (try playing
that chord!) produced Em add9.

Cm7(9) - notes c d eflat g bflat - produced
Eflatmaj7.

Those are just a few examples. Anyway can't do anymore - getting cross eyed as it is.

Point behind all this - I always thought that the root note of any chord played determined the displayed chord, eg play C as the root and you get a C chord, play E flat and you get an E flat chord. Why doesn't Technics do this?

This doesn't affect my enjoyment of playing the 7000 - whatever ever chord played (reading from music) produces the desired musical effect, and I rarely if ever look at the chord display when playing, but it does mean that I still don't know how many chords the 7000 recognizes.

Ogre

all you have to do is switch to pianist mode and all will be revealed, then look in chord finder to see why

Um. Er, Yes. Well. I should have spotted that Thank you Alec.
So, it's Technics 22 - Yamaha 35. Not, certainly in my case, that

it makes any difference to musical output. But I would still be interested to know why some chords played, come out so differently, eg playCM7(9) and get EM7 etc etc.

Ogre

well, 39 in pianist.

have a look at my posts in http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum25/HTML/001506.html for some of the answers since it really is not as simple as a count like this implies.

Thanks again Alec. It's a fascinating topic for sure.

Ogre

Hi Ogre.
The derivation of the chords come from the organ music, where you have a set of bass pedals. The cm7(9) is only that, if it is played with a C bass pedal with the EGBD.
If you were to play EGBD with the E bass pedal then this becomes Emin7. The music where this is used quite frequently is in ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER compositions such as 'The Phantom of the Opera' and another is 'I know him so well' from Chess.
There are of course the clever ones who have big enough hands to comfortably cope with the five note chord to make the CEGBD. One of those was the Late Brian Rodwell, who could play Jazz Organ with five finger chords with both hands and play the melody on the bass pedals.

Regards
PeteB

Peter's point about the root reflects what I was saying about the difference between playing and recognising chords with an apc and a non automatic instrument in the other thread.

C79 or C9 = C E G Bb D, CM79 or CM9 = C E G B D, Cm79 or Cm9 = C Eb G Bb D

Back to the beginning, the C D E G A = A7sus4 is because in Fingered mode you are judging four notes, so out of that group the best it can salvage is the D E G A. Switch to pianist and you recognise 4 notes and a bass note.

The thing about pianist mode is that it is effectively automatic on bass... try playing a note more than a fifth from the lowest note of the right hand chord and see what happens...


Since we obviously have Brian Rodwell fans, I remember a good friend who knew him well telling me that he used to play 8 to the bar BASS at 180 bpm with huge chords in each hand. He would play melody in the left hand, 8 in the bar bass, and 16 in the bar right hand chords then as an ending play a chromatic run as fast as most players could play a run with one finger.... but with block chords in both hands alternating chords between each hand....

..... WOW ! I wonder if he had ten fingers on each hand?

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Willum

Hi Alec/Bill.

I was lucky enough to see Brian play several times and even the professionals on the circuit used to wonder how he did it. And he was known on the Professional circuit as the Organists' organist. When you asked him the question 'How do you do that, Brian?' his answer would be to show you in a slow way so you could watch how it was done and then go on to play at the correct tempo and still wonder.I was also lucky enough for him to play a concert for me at my home and over a 100 visitors came to see him. He had just that day finished a recording on the Yamaha EL90 of the Teddy Bears Picnic in a Trad Jazz Style and I had my own personal performance in the afternoon before the concert. He used a dixie style drum rhythm with no other automatics at all and manually played all the other instruments (clarinet, trumpets. trombones. banjo, whistles, etc.) and result was absolutely spellbinding. He could play five finger chords on the white notes with one hand on bottom manual and overlay it with five finger chords on the black notes on the same manual with his other hand and play a melody on the pedals and to this day I have never been able to work out how he did it and make it sound so good. One of his other talents was to arrange big band music, which he did for some of the B.B.C. bands. If I remember correctly this was mainly for B.B.C. Radio Big Band. He would arrange things in his head whilst on the way to his many performances and then he got there he would sit at the organ console and put it together on manuscipt.

Hope my reminiscences haven't bored you.
regards.
Pete B

[This message has been edited by peter.bentley@talk21.com (edited 04-23-2003).]

Peter,

I find your story facinating not boring.

Thanks for sharing.

Peter's memories contain exactly the same mixture of amazement and delight as others I hear about this fascinating musician

This is absolutely amazing, guys, lets hear more and more and thank you for sharing
Bebop

Hi!
That sure brings back memories. In the early 60's I had the priviledge of attending a private concert by Don Baker of Paramount Theater fame. All I could say at the time was "He not only plays the white keys and the black keys, but the cracks in between"! Truly amazing.
Regards,
Walt

Hi Alec.
It's amazing where a little thing like a chord can lead you.
Pete B.

How about Oscar Peterson our great jazz piano man. I think he is the greatest. He is real and no tricks. Solid stuff. I have all his cd's
Bebop

One of my most favorite Organist of the past was Klaus Wunderlich. While he may not have been as inovative as Brian Rodwell was with his chording, he certainly knew how to "ditgitize" a tube based Hammond .

Hi Beepop.
A real Great!

one of Canada's finest!

Found this link on the General Arranger Forum http://tv-sela.bei.t-online.de/vid/PB_Vivaldi_TYR.WMV
This is a demo of the Tyros by Peter Baartmans. It's about 4Mb in size but worth downloading. It will play in Windows Media player - talk about technique....... Woweeeee

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Willum

He played this at Frankfurt and also at the new products launch over here.

I C it now ORB. This is the same link that Walter McClaren sent me and I email to everyone this (Friday) morning. It really is worth the time to go see and hear. Just awesome this guy. AND! It could just as well be a Technics, wouldn't make a lick of difference in your absolute amazement IMHO
BEBOP