1- Midi file if downloaded is not your work.

2- If you rework the file it is still not your work. Just because you shine your shoes it does not mean that you made them.

3- The use of Midi files and your playing ability are in direct proportion. One goes down when the other is used. Playing ability includes how you use your keyboard. I spent a year collecting many Midi files, thousands, I found I had lost the ability to play songs that were not a problem the year before.

4- I am dollars to entertain – now things change. We are limited in what we can do with our keyboards, there are songs that need many parts playing at the same time carrying the flavor of the song. In this case it is necessary to use a Midi file to earn “Good entertainer”.

5- There are also times when performing when a Wave file should be used. A wave file would be what you hear when playing a CD. At times I use all three forms when I have a paying job.

Reason for my post – This world, especially for the paid professional musician is asking us to lose the purity of the music we love. I am talking about the art of playing and feeling and creating, it is enough that we need the styles that our keyboards offer us. There is joy in turning off parts of the accompaniment so that they can hear more of us. Reality

Aaaaaah, I just had to say that.

John C.

It use to be you were either a live player or you were a DJ. Now you can be both...AT THE SAME TIME... and that's pretty neat.

------------------
Larry
SynthZone Map

[This message has been edited by lahawk (edited 03-22-2008).]

Had a discussion about this at our Jam a few days ago. If the performer is playing at a dance or night club, personal or midi playing makes little difference, as the patrons hear mostly the beat to dance to or are busy with conversation and the music is only background. Live player or DJ OK.

Playing to a group or concert performance. If you play live you are a musician. If you play with midi you are a manipulator.

Fran in SC

In my opinion backing files (Of any type) are fine for live playing in concert providing the following rules are applied.
1. The files have been performed and recorded by the Artist themselves
2. The Artist plays all the parts that are physically possible to play, with the backing file used only to make the sound performance more real (Playing a Classical Orchestral piece is an example, as nobody has enough hands and feet to play all the parts)
3. The Artist does not make the audience believe that everything is played live.
In other words use them to enhance your performance, not as a crutch

Bill

Just a Thought...........

Quote "If you play live you are a musician. If you play with midi you are a manipulator."

So, this would make all players who use the built-in styles of an arranger keyboard, 'manipulators'...... The Styles are, after all, just like a looped MIDI file.
If the styles are created by the player, then the result is a bit nearer playing 'Live'.

This is an interesting topic. I don't use midi files, but I do 'tweak' the keyboard's own styles to suit the tune I'm trying to play as realistically as possible with just a touch of the 'Aud' originality (I hope).

However, when I first had a keyboard that allowed me to do this, I was playing for dancing in a small Club and a "gentleman" (please note the quotes) was hanging around watching every move I made and he finally said to me "you're cheating - anyone can play using disks" "you really believe that do you?" I said. "Of course" he said. "O.K. let's hear you play" I replied getting up from the bench. Needless to say, I didn't see him for dust! What he and many others do not realise is the amount of time spent in putting together your own sounds and styles for a tune which I think makes all of us who do it, "gifted artistes" and there is nothing like the feeling when you get it "just right" - I'm sure you will all know what I mean.

Of course, there is much to be said for sitting at your chosen instrument and just playing around which is why I keep my Technics PR900 piano. The piano is my first love and this great instrument gives me the opportunity to play it as an orchestra or just simply straight piano in it's simplest form. It can be very relaxing.

Audrey

[This message has been edited by Audrey Turner (edited 03-23-2008).]

Right you are Bill. I am a manipulator. Very little musical talent. Need several crutches.

You are a musician as evidenced by the three pieces of music you sent to the Jam. All Bill Norrie including the styles.

Fran in SC

I must not have expressed myself well, the topic is not placing a judgement or conditions relating to Midi files and the people who play them -- IT IS ABOUT the long term effect it has on the player. And trying to hold on to the art of playing – And trying to grow, improve in my playing and use of the keyboard.

I listened to Jim H. play a midi files and I angered. It took me a good part of a day to understand my anger. You see Jim H. is one of the best if not the best player we have on this forum. When I first heard him play I had him make a copy of the song he was playing. That song was shared with everyone in my area – it was in my opinion real music. Jim H. has a gift that few posses, he has his arms around the precious gift of music.

I gave away 200 CD karoake disks with 10 to 20 songs on each. Many of the songs had the original background of the song, when I would sing New York, New York I would sing with Frank Sinatra’s orchestra, or a group that copied and captured the feel of the original song. You can not get closer than that.

CD, a Midi file someone created, A file you have edited, A file you have created or the styles on your keyboard, all are acceptable and many times necessary. When they hire you to play/entertain their guests you must do all that you can to bring your performance to the highest level. The audience in most cases knows not nor cares not, they just want the Electric Slide. Done Amen! I once played New York, New York live – Although I played far better than the midi file (MY opinion) it was not accepted. I did not have the feel and I played it at the wrong tempo. Did I do something wrong?

How I use Midi files:
1-As a fill in when I have gone blank.
2-When there is no way I can give the song justice with my keyboard.
3-When my Bible group comes in and we want a touch of Praise or Worship.
4-To study the song if the original recording is not available.
5-For a fun night at my house -- A Karoake night.

My post was not judgement and conditions, it is about the art of playing my keyboard. Maybe I should not go here but --- My Bible says when you put something before the creator it is called idolatry. When I put a Midi file before my ability to play, a precious gift I might add, and it is not necessary or needed I am helping to bury another God given gift.

IMHO, John C.

Oh boy ... this thread is gonna get hot soon.

Uncle Dave where did you come from -- and welcome, John C.

Hi,
As a young man I used to sit in doors and pick out tunes on the piano.
One evening in a public house with my mates, they got me to play the piano.
The manager heard me playing and offered me money to play at week ends in his public house, to entertain the clientele. I said yes.
Over the years people began to ask me to play at there parties, weddings, socials events, for money I said yes. I bought a Farfisa keyboard organ, and Rhythm Ace, with amplifier. People still kept asking me to play at their events over the years for money, quiet often three times a week.
Most of my bookings were requested when I was playing at an event, or phone calls from people who had already heard me play.

The point I am trying to make is, I am self taught when it comes to music, i.e. chords with the left hand and melody with the right, always to my likening.
I don’t think I’m all that great, when I listen to other people play.
I don’t know from a technical point of view how good a musician I am, and I am not really bothered, because I play my instrument for my own amusement. Now if I am asked to play my keyboard and offered money to do so, I don’t see any reason to do any thing more, than what I was doing when the person who booked me heard me playing in the first place.

I now play a Technics KN7000 and personally, I think I sound 100% better than I ever have, and though I still get asked to play at functions ( at 75 yr) my giging days are over, accept for my friends at sheltered housing

I suppose it comes down to playing, what the person who booked you, heard when you were playing in the first place.
.
Just my humble opinion.
Fred Wren

Now if I am asked to play my keyboard and offered money to do so, I don’t see any reason to do any thing more, than what I was doing when the person who booked me heard me playing in the first place.

I now play a Technics KN7000 and personally, I think I sound 100% better than I ever have, and though I still get asked to play at functions ( at 75 yr) my giging days are over, accept for my friends at sheltered housing

Fred,
I read your reply and the only thing I have to say -- BRAVO at 75 you are still enjoy playing, not many have been blessed so. A gift was given to you.

John C.