Hello again, all my SynthZone friends!

Again I need some technical help for recording using the Sequencer on my KN 7000. I want to record an "ad lib" type of verse, no rhythm, just some simple piano notes and chords, then followed by a regular Intro, and finally, rhythm included, the song itself and ending. It seems, however, that I am unable to start recording without first pushing the "Start/Stop" button, and that automatically starts the rhythm, too. I can play and hear the non-rhythm music while I play it but there is no recording. I hopethis is clear.

Any suggestions as to how to do this would be appreciated and I thank you all in advance for any help you can offer.

Ted Rose



[This message has been edited by Ted Rose (edited 07-07-2008).]

Yes I've done that Ted with that old Dusty Springfield favorite 'You don't have to say you love me'.
Rog

Hello Ted,

If I understand you correctly, here's what I would do.

1) set up the sound you want to use (i.e. piano in Rt.1) make sure Rt2 and Left are not active. Mute all the lefthand. Save this to PM1.

2) Set up the next required settings (i.e. intro) and save to PM2 - again muting all lefthand rhythms if you don't want them.

3) Continue your settings in this way until you have everything you need.

Save to either floppy or SD Card. When you
come to play your song, you just go through the PMs in the normal way.

I recently did this with a war song called
"Coming in on a Wing and a Prayer". I had PM1 with just an aeroplane sound effect on it.
PM2 had Rt1 with a mournful Clarinet sound and Rt2 had an 'gunfire' effect on it with the volume very low and which, by switching it on and off, made it sound more authentic.
PM3 had just an 'explosion' effect sound which I used now and then just to add further interest.
PM4 Rt1 with same sound, Rt2 had the 'gunfire' effect and this time the rhythm was included introduced by using the Fade-In & Out.

I continued in this way mixing and matching until all 8 PMs were used. Finally having all playing together and louder on PM8 It was quite effective, and very well received at the War Reunion I was playing at.

Of course you may well have other ideas, but it was fun to do and could be worth a try.

Audrey

Not too difficult Ted

1. Set up your KN7000 with the rhythm, sounds etc which you wish to use - just as you normally would before recording an Easy Record sequence.

2. Press Easy Record, give your sequence a name if you wish, and then press OK to go to the "Realtime Record" Screen, of the Easy Record system.

3. Make sure that the Intro/ending, Start/Stop and Synchro&Break LEDS are NOT lit.

4. Start playing your 'Ad lib' section and the recording process will be started with the first key press and you will see the Start/Stop LED turn ON and the measure count increment.

5. Just keep on playing your Ad lib section and when you get to the end of it, lift your hands off the keyboard and quickly press Synchro/Break and either Intro/Ending 1 or Intro/Ending 2.

6. Hit the first chord in your left hand and the Intro will start.............

7. Play the rest of your sequence and end as normal.

Bill, you can do it the way you stated but there is no guarantee that when you start playing in tempo you are starting at the beginning of a measure. More than likely, you will be in the middle of a measure. The Sequencer isn't going to stop in the middle of a measure and start from the beginning when rhythm starts. I have never found need to play ad lib and then play an Intro. It seems that playing ad lib to start with doesn't require playing an Intro but then there might be a situation where one would want to do it. Anyway, if the rhythm starts is in the middle of a measure, which it most likely will, track 5, (CHD) also known as style or pattern will be out of sync.

Thanks to all of you who responded to my query! I have a number of suggestions now, and I will work on implementing them ASAP. I hope perhaps my question may even have helped some other players who may want to do this same thing and did not know the technique to do so.

I knew I could always count on the expertise of the great people that make up this great site! My deepest thanks to you all. If there are any other suggestions forthcoming, please just continue this thread. But if not, I appreciate the time you took already.

Musical hugs from

Ted

KitKat,
Whilst your comment includes a valid point about the Intro probably starting in the middle of a measure, this does not really matter. Once the Intro starts, plays through and the normal Style variation begins, it is just the same as starting a sequence as normal. The fact that the left hand chord changes in the APC track (5) and any control changes (Track 6) made during the sequence, are out of sync with the measure start points, is totally irrelevant. However, it may make subsequent editing a little more difficult

There may be other ways to achieve what Ted wants to do - the way I described it is the way I have done this in the past - with or without using an Intro.

Bill, you said, "However, it may make subsequent editing a little more difficult" There you have it!!! If a person doesn't need to use Step Record, you can do this. Trying to correct a measure, you would be half in one and half in another. Also, there may be an automatic trigger if one uses an Intro for the rhythm to respond correctly to not be out of sync. I have done about four songs starting with ad lib. What I felt I had to do was do a few tries to find out where my ad lib would stop. I would find that I would have to start playing perhaps on the second or third beat for it to come out correctly when I wanted to start the rhythm.

You bring up a good point by stating that there may be another way. I thought that doing an ad lib, I could go later into Step Record, bring up the Control track and press the Stop/Start button in the right spot, which shows Rhythm Start. It doesn't work. I even tried going into the Rhythm track and found that was no help.

Another possibility - if the ad-lib section is fairly short - create the ad-lib section in one of the Composer Intros and use that instead of the built-in style Intro. This assumes that you don't want to use the other Intro in the sequence. You would of course have to copy the intended built-in style to the Composer and then over-write one of the Intros.
There is another possibility if the ad-lib section is too long to fit within the 16 measures available in the Composer Intro. The entire ad-lib section could be recorded as a separate sequence - say in Song 2 of the sequencer. Then, the 'normal' sequence could be recorded in Song 1 of the sequencer - including an Intro if desired. Having recorded the two songs, it may be possible to 'join' them, using the editing facilities in the KN7000. I haven't tried this but will experiment when I have a bit more time available.

......NOT a simple process but it may work

For Ted's purpose, I would think that my initial suggestion would fit the bill, despite the asynchronous nature of the style to the sequence measures.

Like I said I've done it:
with that old Dusty Springfield favorite 'You don't have to say you love me'.
Now if I could just find some way of providing you with a winzip of my 'registration' of it - you would see how I did it...
Rog

Bill, doing an ad lib in Composer, using an Intro is an excellent idea - I never thought of that. I have used a Variation for a very long sustained bass for ad lib work. It works very well. The only problem, you sacrafice a Variation for a rhythm style.

My! this is very interesting stuff. If, and when, you find your setup Rog, I'd be interested in a copy.

Once again, it just goes to show that with any computer based object, there are usually two or three ways of doing the same thing.

Like Ted, I also think this site is the No.1 and long may it reign.

Audrey

Hi Audrey
Copies sent to Kitkat, yourself and Willum...perhaps Ted will tell me if he wants a copy.
Rog

Thanks Rog However, that Intro is not strictly ad-lib in the sense of playing without keeping to a measure tempo If you listen and watch the LED counter above the Start/Stop button, you can see that the Intro actually is IN tempo with the Six measures in the Composer.
What I think Ted meant in his original question was that he wanted to play an 'out-of-tempo' phrase, before actually conforming to a Tempo. Think of the intro to 'Stardust' or 'I Left my Heart in San Francisco'...........

Check your email Rog

Aaaah - when you received my file you turned on synchro break and intro 1.
I don't...hence the reason panel memory 1 is set up as 'no synchro' and 'no intro'.
Panel memory 2 has the synchro break turned on to start the rhythm from scratch.
As a matter of interest Bill I'd never listened to that intro before...it's pretty good isn't it. I may well play it that way in future.
Best wishes
Rog

Wow! I sure opened quite a discussion, but I am delighted that my seemingly simple question evoked such a variety of responses of all kinds among us all. It is this sort of interchange between us that makes this site my very favorite and informative of all. Many, maybe most, of you know that I am not really a musician, but just an amateur ear player, but I am learning more and more from you all as I read and absorb all the great messages you take time to post. The last one in this thread from Bill Norrie accurately interpreted what I was (am) trying to do, and that is start a song with an "ad lib" "out-of-tempo" verse and then, after that, move into the rhythm pattern and the regular song. I can hear all this in my head or even sing it with my lyrics, but I have never been able to duplicate it through the keyboard. So, to Bill, that is exactly what I want to do and to all of you, your various suggestions are often innovative, always stimulating and motivational. Finally, to Rog: I would indeed appreciate yiour sending me the Winzip "registration" file you sent to several others. I have developed a growing file of many, many hints and ideas from all of you and I could never repay you except with grateful thanks for enriching my simple musical life and making me a better player! Maybe some day I may even join the ranks as a "musician" just by incorporating so many of your ideas and improving my musical knowledge!!!

My personal best wishes and deepest thanks always to all my SynthZone friends for both your constant help and your friendship in cyberspace!

TED