Frustratingly, I still say the guitar. Although in recent years, these emulations have gotten quite better. They've always seemed to have gotten those metal leads and nylons down pat.

The one type of guitar that has sucked repeatedly - even on today's keyboards are those venerable late 70s and early 80s funk strats. Every keyboard to date has really sucked. In fact, the only passable versions I've heard of these were on the Roland Country Expansion Board for the JV/XP/XV series, and on the Quantum Leap Guitar & Bass CD.

It has frustrated me to the point where I've decided to save up and get the Quantum CD as it has the BEST guitars I've heard to date (and this CD came out in 1998).

Yeah, some of you will come in here and preach about dealing with Guitar Loop CDs or hooking up with a guitarist. The second option is cool, but I don't fool with loops at all, I'm down with making my OWN music from start to finish.

Since I'm saving up ($250) to get that CD and my problems should be alleviated, I'm curious to know what instruments you all think suck on today's (or yesterday's) keyboards?

The Infamous Epu.

All of them.

Cloakboy, what are you using, a CTK-481 or something? I've only got a Roland XP-10 and I think it does a fair job on many of its instruments, especially strings and some of the woodwinds. (Its electronic synth voices, however, are somewhat of a letdown.)

I don't use any imitative/GM synths. I've played with all kinds and in my experiance, they all sound like cheese. Samplers do the job a bit better, but even then you're limited. I think part of the problem is that so many keyboardists become oblivious to the sound of the actual instruments versus the acceptable (and often times fashionable) synth alternative to it. Strings are a great example, there are a lot of good synth strings out there, some more acceptable than others, but none of them compare to the sound of a real string orchestra. It seems to me that, after the 80's, the general public got used to a certain "synth string" sound and it has become an acceptable alternative - a "not strings" strings sound. Woodwind, brass, and especially guitar emulations still sound like shit. Guitar being so prevalent in our music will likely never have an acceptable synthetic alternative.

My point is that, personally, I view synths as new sounds and feel that it's a waste to try to make them sound like "real instruments," especially since they will always fail, because they're not the "real instruments." 100 different bassoons will have a 100 different waveforms, but they'll still sound like a bassoon. A synth trying to sound like a bassoon will always sound like a synth trying to sound like a bassoon. The worst thing to ever happen to electronic music and synths is this false idea that a synth can "imitate any sound." Maybe on paper, but in reality - no.

I definately agree that a synthesizer emulating an instrument will never sound exactly right. However, I don't think people have lowered their standards to the point at which they think a bad synth string emulation, or something of the sort, is acceptable. I just don't think people mind synth instruments, especially since they are a cheap alternative to adding an extra musician to your band, for example.

I don't use synth emulation of orchestra/band/etc. instruments for anything except composition, in which case I use them so I can hear a reasonably good representation of what my piece will sound like played by the actual instruments. Of course, the quality of this representation depends on your synthesizer - and I think many professional synths by Roland, Korg, Yamaha, etc. do the job rather well.

Most of what I do use my keyboard for is the electronic voices that only a synthesizer can produce - waves, pads, etc. These, in my opinion, are the true beauty of a synthesizer, and besides, they just sound cool. I agree that their best application is "new sounds," as you put it (this is how masterpieces like "Jump" are born), but I still think that their emulation of "real" instruments can be really quite good.

nice post cloakboy

but guitars suck the most..

especially nylon acoustic chords.

I think that they suck more than the 70's funk guitars because if you want the nylon acoustic sound in a song then there is nothing you can really fill it with other than that particular instrument. If you want the 70's funk I think that you can find a substitute sound and dress it up witha bit of wah and other fx and stuff.. It's sure not going to sound the same but it fills the gap. My opinion.

Sorry but I don't agree about the nylon guitar. Yamaha has pretty much overcome this, however they are still dilligently working on the picking envelope of the overdriven electric. If all you have is GM, then that is why. To my ears, most of the timbres created in general MIDI are just that; General, and not specific. The sounds are out there, but unfortunately similar to many things in life....you want, you pay.
MORPH!

The problem is not the synth, It's the way how you play it. A synth / sampler can capture all the sounds you can ever imagine but if you play it through synth style of playing you will loose a lot of characteristics specially guitar. Try to compare playing a good guitar sample from your favorite synth and from midi guitar using the same sample you will notice the difference. Same in sax sound using midi wind controller versus playing from synth keyboard. I'm thinking of an idea of putting a six-string controller on the keyboard panel and see what its effect.

If you ask me, brass is bad. French Horns are getting pretty good; if you get the expansion cards like the Roland Orchestral 2 board. Trumpets (and especially supposed brass sections) are usually really bad, especially if trying to do jazz. Guitars are bad. Harmonicas are bad; though chromatic are better than diatonic. Solo strings are bad; cellos being the best efforts but solo violins still sound bad. This is probably because the cello is usually used for more legato passages while a violin would maybe want to dance around a bit more.
I've not yet heard a convincing solo mandolin; though I've heard pretty good mandolin ensembles like in Italian music.

Any portamento stuff really sucks on sample playback, because of the multisamples. Sliding within the same sample is ok, but as soon as it has to jump to another sample, you get cut off or hear clicking.

-tek

Basicly I agree with cloakboy, Synths are for new sounds to create.

anyway;
If you want to emulate an instrument, specially string instruments it is pretty difficult if it is a solo.
In a mix/background you can get away with it though.

I am a guitarist playing synth's so I don't use my synths for guitars
Nevertheless I experimented a lot with the guitar emulations and sax emulations.
First thing you absolutely need is a joystick!
You won't be able to emulate these kind of instruments with wheels!
Secondly while you play a guitar you have to think as a guitarist. (hence I even try to bend my keys )
When you play a sax , you blow on your keys!
When you play a violin your arms/shoulder move while playing the keys.

What i'm trying to say is that if you want to emulate an instrument it helps a lot if you play or have played the instrument involved.

There are ofcourse instruments which are better on synths as the real ones!
Piano f.i.!
Never off tune and 10 different steinways in a box!
Sure it is a matter of taste but I prefer my kurz over any acoustic piano!

Cutting and past samples is a complete different matter.
I am a player so don't use this.
I don't think you can even come close to the sound of a real instrument by just using samples, unless you play the samples!
I think it is almost impossible to edit sampled sounds equally to played sampled sounds when you use realtime aftertouch and realtime pedals.
Each track would cost you a week of programming.

Interesting topic though.

Fred

I'm also a guitarist playing synths. Only these days I seem to do more synths than guitar.

...and another guitarist, using MIDI to prop up chops quickly showing signs of age.

For the stuff I can't play, I've begun the trudge away from synths and into the soft world. Take a listen to this jazz nylon guitar , and this steel string guitar . It's Edirol's SuperQuartet. It's a plugin for Cubase or Cakewalk, and it's pretty cheap (I paid $175).

While you're at it, listen to these solo strings . I will agree that synths generally sound like synths, and that folks have learned to treat pretend-a-orchestras from ROM-based synths as reasonable sources of sustain background sound in popular music, but I'd say we're getting close to the point where we don't have to settle for that anymore.

For me, live instruments are definitely prefered. Synths are fine for what they do - my personal tastes in electronic keyboards haven't, unfortunately, made it much past the Hammond B-3. Sample-based software is getting better, though, and for us huddled-in-a-corner-working music composers, it's close enough to the real thing to make it fun!