Hi all!
I know that this is mainly a keyboard/synth forum but having read a lot of postings I realized that a lot of people here play guitars as well.
Likewise, I own a few synths and quite a few guitars.
I play mostly classical and that is going pretty well. My electric guitar playing is alright, but I find that I cant really play fast. Improvising and coming up with all the crazy soloes is something that I am also pretty bad at.
The only stuff I seem to be able to do is either play what I already know (a bit of blues scales, leads from some of my favorite songs). Playing rhythm is no problem for me either.

So here’s my question, what should I do to improve my playing speed wise and perhaps learn to improvise?

Jim




[This message has been edited by smoke-on-the-water (edited 04-18-2005).]

What's with this speed thing. More can be done with one well placed long note, than 20 ill placed notes... It's important to be comfortable with what you have..
Improv comes from doing just that. Play whatever to everything you can find. If you go at it nice and slow, you will find yourself throwing in things as time goes by.. It takes a bit of time to know where you can throw in a cool trill (simple enough) or rip out an arpagio from hell.

I could not say it better!!!

Try to check out this:
1. listen to Joe Satriani (he playes fast and with a good blues feeling)
2. listen to Uriah Heep's Mick Box (he don't play fast but haunting)
3. listen to Pink Floyds David Gilmour (he's the master of flying guitar tunes)

Sure there are many more well talented guitar players all over the world but these three once will give you a good sight/start to your own improvisations. If you would prefer listen to classic music then try Eric Hill, Al DiMeola or Paco DeLucia (but they will really bite you I'm afraid)...

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 04-21-2005).]

Thanks,
I guess the speed thing is something that I keep hearing left and right, especially when I go to music stores to try different guitars and all.
There are always a few kids sitting around and playing some really wild crazy soloes that I can’t even dream about playing.

I seem to be comfortable with playing leads and soloes similar to the ones that Mark Knophler from Dire Straits plays, but obviously that doesn’t always match the styles of music that I would like to play to.
I find that even though a lot of rock and heavy metal guitarists play what can be considered musical nonsense (from my guitar teacher’s point of view anyway…) but it stil souns cool and I would love to be able to play what they are playing.
No matter what I try I can’t do it.

So I was just wondering if there is any other way…

Jim.

Jim:

Good advise above, might add, like the keyboard, practice scales. do a scale run in every key starting with the chord, then run a octave or more.

If you are impressed with another players little tricks and runs etc, tape it and play it a few times (just the part you're after) then learn it,exactly. then add your personal touch making it even hotter!

Note: some pedal boards has a feature that loops these runs.

Practice practice practice. but just repeat that part until your brain thinks of it and your hands automatically does it. (especially the scales)

If your not playing at least a hundred chords, you might get you hands on some Barney kessel/Tony Matola/Sogovia/Chet/Martin Taylor etc: tapes and listen to what these guys does with chording. I've found that no matter what kind of music you like Chords up and down the neck are a must. (I've heard there is over 5,000 combinations on the guitar possible) Find each chord in as many location on the neck as possible. This will keep you busy for the rest of your life.LOL I've been doing this for 64 years now, and still not as good as Sogovia

SORRY IF I ALSO SOUND LIKE YOUR MUSIC TEACHER. But if you want to be the best, you'll need some knowledge of the guitar. (there's a million guys out there in some garage, Doing lightning fast riffs, at 120 dbl's that can be learned in a couple of months, but they can't play the Damn guitar)

Cheers....Pose

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Cheers....Pose

[This message has been edited by loungelyzard (edited 04-18-2005).]

Jim....
Practice...practice...practice
The "lightning fingers" thing is interesting and cool but, it's not the only way to play. Check out your local music store and try to find videos or dvd's on techniques, particularly "pulls" and "hammers". Basically with pulls, the action of pulling you finger off a fret creates notes on quick succession. "Hammering" is the opposite, where you use the fingers of your strumming hand to hammer the fretboard.
Don't get too hung up on trying to play fast, 'cos if it ain't clean, it's not going to be appreciated, by you or your listeners.

Me...I've been playing guitar for 40 years now (Boy..are my fingers tired)

....Just my thots... Good Luck Jim.

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...shboom

Practice your scales SLOOOOWWWW until you master all 12 keys perfectly at 60 bpm. Then gradually increase your bpm until you reach your desired goal. YOu must concentrate on accuracy before you can accelerate.

Thanks for all the replies,
I'll definitely give it all a try.
My only problem with playing scales and gradually speeding it up was that even after playing and playing for weeks I saw no changes. So I'm still pretty much stuck at 60 bpm...
Looks it I'll just have to be more patient.

Jim.

Maybe your not seeing the change, but trust me, if you're really paying attention to what your're doing your brain is uploading the repeated action and cutting a groove for storage. Sorta like a baby and a pyramid. A baby learning to crawl,has a zillion things to master in its mind just to be able to get the hang of crawling. For instance focusing on objects, learning balance, muscle cord. etc. A pyramid is very large at the base, and takes a zillion blocks to complete the first layer, but each additional layer gets faster (less to learn) because (similar to the last lesson) etc etc. Just keep at it, when you're at your peak for learning you'll be dreaming about playing in your sleep and you'll be hearing the rifts as you go about your daily task, and in quiet times you'll see the fretboard in your minds eye.....Don't give up, you can do it....Pose

[This message has been edited by loungelyzard (edited 04-18-2005).]

I make two lines under this argument!!!
Like shboom said: Practice, practice, practice,...
But don't forget the fun while playing. Make your own songs and try to play what your imagination shows you. And if you plan to run faster with your fingers then it's a good tip to look away from your fretboard because of you will learn to play with your feeling only.
The faster you play the faster you have to control your fingers. Once a time you will reach the point where your mind can't registrate the pictures from the eyes as fast as you'll need for coordinating your fingers. So you can control your fingers only with the sense of the finger's touch on fretboard.

And like Pose said, this will be the point where you will see the fretboard in front of your closed eyes...

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

Cool!
I guess it's the same as with keyboards then. I always visualize the picture of a keyboard in my mind when I'm playing one. I'm actually quite a fast player when it comes down to playing keys. So I was most likely disapointed by the fact that I couldn't do as well with guitars.

Say, is playing an acoustic (not the classical acoustic) before playing an electric a good idea? i know that some of my friends use their acoustics to do the warmup exercises just to make their fingers work extra hard.
I just find that an acoustic is a little to stiff and I can't bend the strings as well.

Jim.

[This message has been edited by smoke-on-the-water (edited 04-19-2005).]

I played 5 years an accoustic western guitar before I changed to an electic guitar. The effect was that I could play longer than the other guitar players I've played together with because the skin on my fingers were harder than their's and I had have much more power in my fingers than them (a little bit like a vice ).

Today I don't need playing an acc. guitar directly before I'm playing an elec. once because my fingers know the little differences now. It's also a good idea to play a western guitar to start up for a classic guitar with nylon strings. However, every change between two guitars will cause you to work out the feeling for the other guitar.


You can try to use an accoustic jazz guitar with the f-holes in its body. The fretboard of those guitars are similar to the elec. guitar's fretboard. Maybe this gives you a softer start into the accoustic world...


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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 04-19-2005).]

Thanks,
F-holes?
You mean kind of like on those semi-acoustic guitars?
Cool, how much are they usually?

Jim.

Yes, the f-holes are similar to an half-accoustic guitar. The price should be the same as you have to pay for a western guitar. I guess a new one will cost you from about 200 to 400 bucks if you want to buy a midclass guitar.


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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

What string guage are you using? Obviously, the lighter the quicker.Also, play around with string height adjustment..that can make a big difference. Neck width varies considerably, and can affect speed.

Also, I have lots of guitars, and each one has it's own "personality". For instance, I have 2 335's. One plays like a dream and the other is just stiffer-harder-slower. They have the same brand and guage of strings.

Go figure...

Russ

Jim...what guitar are you playing? I have hundreds of guitards and have been playing nearly 50 years, but I still use a top rate guitar tech to set intonation, adjust necks, set action, position pick-up poles, etc. It's well worth the investment. Most top pros (I'm certainly NOT one) use a tech. Many touring acts take one on the road with them.

Try it....you'll LIKE IT!

Russ

I couldn't agree more. It is what you play not how much you play. And the more comfortable you become soloing the more competent you will become.


smoke-on-the-water, if you can play as well as Mark Knopler then that would be very commendable because that guy can really play guitar. I've watched him from side of stage playing live some years ago and he is a real competent guitarist and a true musician.

Some other favorite rock guitar players to listen to are Jeff Beck, Frank Zappa, Steve Howe, Dave Gilmore and Joe Satriani ... oh you always have to include Jimi Hendrix.

If jazz is more your thing then you must listen to Django Reinhardt, George Benson, Larry Carlton, Russ Freeman, Lee Ritenour and Al DiMeola.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 04-21-2005).]

While heavy gauge bronze strings provide maximum acoustic tone and volume they are not the only strings you can use on an acoustic guitar. I like to use a lighter gauge acoustic string set so I can play acoustic blues and bend strings easier. Play using whatever you find comfortable. There are no rules when it comes to the strings you choose to play on.

Nigel...those are all players in my alltime top 10 favorites. You really know your players.

Russ

Hey Guys,
Let me share this with you.
Many of you have never heard Nigel play guitar, but I have had the pleasure of jamming with him when we had the West Coast Jam here at my place. This guy is some kind of good. Give him a turn around and just hang on cause he is moving. He is a guitar players guitar player. I mean as in GOOD
I also discovered he does a pretty good job on keyboards too.
These are just his hobbies. You ought to know what he does for a living. I will leave that to him to share with you
Best to all
Bebop

Hey thanks everyone,
Mark Knophler and Hank marvin definitely remain my favorites.
I find that playing in that style really works with my current techniques and speed.

Although I'm not a heavy metal fan on ocasion I do mess with abnoxious and inharmonic leads, just hitting random notes within the scale, bending, getting crazy feedbacks from the amps and hammering/pulling off like crazy.

So far I've taken your advice and slowly practiced all the scales that I know of including blues scales.
I have to admit, the neck feels more comfortable and my fingers wonder around less and less looking for the right note.
I guess it was just a matter of doing it the right way instead of just looking for an easy way.

Sheriff, I do like "Flying Guitar" a lot and half of my own compositions rely on long delays with tons of feedback and crazy panning and modulation FX.

Jim.

If it is so then I would really like to hear some of your songs. Tell me if you're planning to share some of it with us!!!

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)