I'm a little disappointed that the project I had going with Phil (Pennywizz6) to create a website for Airstream Audio has not been completed satisfactorily.

The project started early this year. I initially got a static first page with icons indicating the navigation system, which looked like it would work. Then, after supplying copy and over 25 illustrations,
what I got back was a straight dump of copy...only three illustrations poorly executed...basically no indication at all of ability in the areas of graphic design, typography, photo conversions...nothing of any use. I told Phil about this over two months ago and was promised a remake to be
done over the next week-end. Then: nothing, in spite of several emails. The last 5 emails were returned (mailbox full).

TO MEMBERS: I'm using the forum because Phil solicited business here, and I want to warn you to CAREFULLY check out previous work before you consider using him. He got in way over his head, and this was the simplest of static sites.

TO PHIL:
I don't regret our effort, and don't expect a refund. Even considering the results, it was $300.00 well spent. We took a shot and it didn't work. After all, you're the age of my grandson, and now I believe you're nowhere near ready to take on even the simplest of projects meeting minimum commercial quality.

What is really sad is how you handled things. When you get in over your head, the best thing to do is just admit it to your clients. In most cases, as it was in this one, there would be no hard feelings.Ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away is NOT the way to go.In the business world, lack of callbacks and accessability on the part of suppliers is unprofessional, a "no-no" and, usually, a dealbreaker.

I have a young man who is a freshman in college who does maintenance on 9 of our clients' static sites. We paid him a hair over $35,000 last year (photo changes, copy dumps, etc.). His dad, who is a friend of mine, says that he will be able to cover all his college and living expenses himself. If he progresses as he is doing, he'll have a job at my company when he graduates.

This little job was a trial. Had it been completed as promised, I would have given you the shot at similar work.

What I'd like you to do is simply return the input. I'd like to secure the URL for use after one of my "in house" guys creates a usable site.

Mail materials to:
Russ Lay
CCI
333 Midland Place #7
Lexington, Kentucky 40505

Again, no hard feelings; just a little disappointment.


Best of luck in the future,


Russ Lay

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 09-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 09-20-2005).]

Russ, we all get over our head on occasions..It is part of growing pains..Risk takers will be rewarded someday, but as you mentioned, you do have to admit when it happens , and make ammends..I appreciate your attitude, over the experience and would hope Phil grows from the experience..
Phil, keep plugging away,this is how you get the experience to succeed,both good and bad..
Phil, my advice, contact Russ and get on the same page without hard feelings,,Russ has said it is not the money..

Russ, Sorry to hear your work was not compleated the way you had hoped...I think you are handeling this thing very well...good show.....
Fran you are 100% correct when you say to Phil that this is a learning expeirence and to set it right with Russ.....
Phil ....you know what you have to do, do it,get it done...you will be a better MAN for it.....
Tony Rome

There is a thread in General Discussion section where Phil is now offering free mastering...
Wonder if he's changed hobbies?

-ED-

Thanks Ed...I for one didn't notice it...I wish him good luck....I guess he finished his studio and wanted to try it out thereby
forgeting his other commetments...
Tony Rome

[This message has been edited by Tony Rome (edited 09-20-2005).]

Not only this! Some nice people sent Phil their waves for testing. This will have overflown his mail box, I'm afraid!

Capt. Russ! Don't be too disappointed! I'm sure that Phil is able to make this web thing but maybe he has to learn how to balance the time that those projects can need. I'm also sure that he would have answered you if any e-mail would have arrived him. You've mentioned that his mail box is full!!!

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Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 09-22-2005).]

Sheriff, he got previous emails on this subject, and promised a fix over two months ago. The deal he offered was $199.00. I paid him $300. Delivery was supposed to be 4-5 weeks. It's been 5 months.

Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 09-22-2005).]

Well, Capt. Russ, I only tried to balance the arguments a little bit. I really understand your frustration. I don't know you or Phil personally. I only followed your topics from the beginning of your co-working with Phil. I thought it was a great chance for Phil to do this job like others mentioned in this thread too. So, I'm a little bit disappointed too about the way it goes...

I also know you as a fair and noble man and so I trust into your ability to judge things right. I hope that Phil will answer your mails soon and that things will be right again!

Best regards, Danny

Actually according to the thread at General D. all the music was sent to phil by mail. Using e-mail to send some mp3s was the original plan but after Morph has described that mp3s aren't actually mastering material it was decided that the wav format be used instead. Given the size of the average 5-minute audio tracks in .wav format e-mail was no longer an option.

-ED-

Sorry to hear this Russ.

Anyway I sended him some *wav by mail which I burned on cd.
No pressure at all for him as it's just for himself to try out some basics in mastering.
Personally I'm very well capable in mastering myselve.
It is just meant for him to help him on it's way.
He got 4 songs in stereo*wav on -3db which gives him all the headroom he needs and I told him by mail in which order to do the
mastering process for these files.

He should have them by now.

Let's see what comes out anyway

Fred

I am a web designer and I also do graphic art. I can tell you that it takes months to develop a great multi-function website with photo's, sound, guestbooks, etc.

I wouldn't be too hard on Phil, he is young, inexperienced and is trying really hard to develop his skills. Look at it as an opportunity to help mentor a young person.

However, as a business owner, I feel your pain. Remember you ALWAYS get what you pay for. My web sites START at $500.00 and can go sky high!

Kbrkr, you're right...you get what you pay for. This was simply a chance for this young
man to learn. I paid him $100.00 more than his asking price. There was no sound...no guestbook. He got a thumbnail of the pages, illustrations on disk and content via email. It was one of the easiest sites to create I have ever organized, due to the intent, which was to create a learnng experience. I was prepared to get a marginal; even unusable product. I'm not at all upset because he couldn't do the work...I'm upset about how he handled things when he learned there was a problem, which was to do nothing.

We hve two web designers on staff, and create interactive sites for clients used to track the process of orders, order entry, shipping dates, sales commissions, etc.If my object was only to get an appropriate website, I would have simply given the job to one of our people and it would have cost me nothing, since they are on salary.

Had I gotten anything like an acceptable product, I would have developed him as a part-timer to maintain static sites, at compensation of $50.00 an hour.


I was simply trying to give someone an opportunity...


Russ

It's been over a week....no word from Phil...that's what I expected.


How sad...


russ

Hey Russ...maybe it's time that the young man was taught the meaning of "responsabilty" .....it might just take someone else pulling his coat tail to wake him up....I would be more than happy to follow it up for you by sending an e-mail of my own, however, I certainly don't want to meddle into something that isn't directly
any of my business....we are all together as family here and have to look after each other when possible.....
Tony Rome

Phil also didn't react to the other thread he started in this forum. I hope that he's not ill at the time!!!

Thanks, Tony, but the "damage is done". If he were to deliver a usable site today, it would be 6 months after he got content and 5 months after promised.

I also know that he didn't deliver as promised to other members. I don't expect to get my input back, either.

I don't regret giving him a chance. I mainly want to warn members to be careful and let Phil know that this is not acceptable behavior. If he were older and working, this performance would get him fired, and If he failed to deliver under contract he probably would be sued.

It's a disappointment, but now I know about him. I hope he spent my $300.00 wisely, cause he "ain't gonna get any more". The sad thing is, he could have made enough to finance college if he had just done what he promised.

With the help of the "zone" I think I've got my point across. I'm sure he's seen all this, and I hope he's embarassed.

Best regards to all...


Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 09-30-2005).]

And so it ended fateful...
I wish you a more lucky choice for your next deal, Capt. Russ! Sorry to hear about this finish. May the next webdesigner be a more authentic one!!!
Best regards, Danny

Actually, Danny, we have two full-time web designers on staff, so, since they are on salary, I could have created this site at no out-of-pocket. Airstream Audio is a mobile DJ/sound set-up, which is contained in a 22' 1956 Airstream trailor. We use it mainly for car shows and for large outside events. Since the car shows are "captive customers"
I wasn't going to create a site at all..it's booked through fall, 2006. I was simply trying to create a job for someone who I thought was an ambitious and honorable kid. I was wrong, but he is the big loser, not me. It was worth $300.00 to see what Phil was worth, which "ain't much".

Currently, I'm giving a young graphic arts major a chance to work on several logos. If it works out, she'll get more work while in college, with the possibility of a full-time job with us when she graduates. I never get "newcomers" to do work on spec. We always pay a fair rate, even if the work is not usable. I like to give young people in the business a chance to work on a "brag piece", since jobs are hard to get without a track record.

Thanks very much for your concern...all the best to our "overseas" friend!


Russ

He is evidently alive and well, because he posted yesterday on the Buy/Sell page.

He's around, alright...just "in hiding"!

Russ

Three weeks since first post...six months since the job was promised. Watch out for this kid!


Russ

7 weeks since my first post..over 7 months since the promise of delivery.

I'm moving on...no contact from Phil...didn't expect one. No return of input. This will be my last post on the subject.

I had hoped that, with your support (which I GREATLY appreciate), I could embarass him into rethinking how he handles business and interacts with people trying to help him.

He pulled off a $300.00 hussle and, in the process, possibly blew a chance at well-paying full time employment, or at least
a good paying second job.

He's the big loser, not me. Looks like he has disappeared from here.

Good riddance!


Russ

Russ....if you say it was a cheap lesson that he could have cost you more down the line it will make it easier to swallow the bitter pill and you are correct, he is the loser...rember...you win.....
Tony Rome

I strongly suspect that Phil has joined the swelling ranks of irresponsible young people that will leech from anyone and everyone they can throghout most of their lives. Sad, very sad to witness this, even from our perspective.

Gary

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Travlin' Easy