I wonder if I am out of touch with reality?
My wife’s, Saturn 2000 LW1 station wagon, didn't run for 4 days over Christmas, and when started up the engine was stumbling, seeming to run on 3 of the 4 cylinders off and on. I managed to drive it down to the dealer and told them it probably needed a spark plug or a plug wire.
I got it back 4 hours later with 4 new plugs and a bill for 368.81. 4 plugs cost 54.40, troubleshooting 139.00, and install the plugs 170.92, plus tax.
Is this a normal price for this kind of problem. I wonder if at my age I have lost touch with repair costs, even though I have owned two shops in my lifetime?
I will appreciate any feedbacks so I can upgrade my knowledge curve. This vehicle is now out of warranty so I may need to quit taking it to the dealer and find me an independent shop?
Kindly advise facts or opinions and let me know which are which. Thanks for your help.
Happy New Year to All.
Bebop

Whew. New cars are all computer controlled these days, and no one I know can diagnose engine problems without a big deal. Spark plugs are supposed to last about 100,000 miles on these newer cars. How many miles did your car have on it?

I took my 2000 Venture to the dealer last year and they wanted $1100. to replace the fuel pump, WHICH I HAD JUST REPLACED for $400. at an independent shop. Of course the dealership charged me for diagnosis etc, so I was out a hundred or so anyway. Needless to say I won't be going back there. In fact, anything I buy in the future will most likely say Toyota or Honda on it.
I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but these days the Japanese are making things here, and the Americans are getting things from overseas anyway. My experience over MANY years is that the Japanese vehicles last longer, run better, get better mileage and need fewer repairs.
General Motors makes vehicles right here in Shreveport, but I'm really down on them right now. I love my Venture, except it has gone through 3 fuel pumps, 2 computers, wiring harness and an ignition module in the past two years, and it still is having the same problem.
The problem is that all the warning lights come on, the gas gauge shows empty and it starts to stall. This only happens after the engine is hot, and only in warm weather. I pity the person who buys it after I trade it in.
I must trade it in, because I couldn't in good conscience sell it to an individual.
My sights are set on Scion XB!
Sorry for the rant, but you hit a NERVE, Bebop!
DonM

Hey Bebop,

Found a factory recall for the Saturn L series...has to do with the ignition system.

Click Here

2000 SATURN L-SERIES ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:MODULE
Recall Date: 06/23/2003

Summary:
ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.2L L4 (L61) ENGINES, A FAILURE OF THE IGNITION CONTROL MODULE MAY CAUSE DETERIORATION IN IDLE QUALITY, REDUCTION IN OVERALL ENGINE POWER, AND THE VEHICLE MAY BE HARD TO START. CONTINUED OPERATION OF THE VEHICLE AFTER SUCH AN IGNITION MODULE FAILURE WILL RESULT IN THE ??SERVICE ENGINE SOON?? LIGHT FLASHING, AND MAY LEAD TO SECONDARY FAILURES OF THE CATALYTIC CONVERTER, OXYGEN SENSOR, AND EXHAUST RESONATOR.

Consequence:
FAILURE OF THE RESONATOR WILL CAUSE INCREASED EXHAUST NOISE. PROLONGED OPERATION OF THE VEHICLE FOLLOWING A RESONATOR FAILURE MAY LEAD TO A FIRE.

Remedy:
DEALERS WILL (1) REPLACE THE IGNITION CONTROL MODULE, (2) REPLACE THE IGNITION CONTROL MODULE AND SPARK PLUGS, OR (3) REPLACE THE IGNITION CONTROL MODULE, SPARK PLUGS, AND UPDATE THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE CALIBRATION. OWNER NOTIFICATION BEGAN ON AUGUST 4, 2003. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT SATURN AT 1-800-553-6000 , PROMPT 3.

Potential Units Affected: 239993

Notes: SATURN L-SERIES 03033/03-C-06

Not sure if you qualify but it's worth checking out (if it applies to your car).

Good luck and Happy New Year!

-mike

That is a lot of money. Some new cars require the engine mounts to be removed to replace the plugs. I have a 95 Riveria I bought platinum plugs for............and I can't even put them in myself unless I want to devote an entire weekend to them. It'll wait................-charley

Dave,
that car has 43,000 miles.
A bad plug or plug wire can be confirmed with a screw driver by shorting out the plug and then swapping it with an adjacent cylinder. Takes about 10 minutes or less.

Don, I hear your pain and it reflects mine.
every time I take one of my cars in for service they stongly reccomend about 2500.00 worth of BS preventative maintainence they call it like change all the hoses, changes all the belts, change all the brake oil, etc. I had the dealer appraise this car while there and they said low of 2500. This is a car that cost me over 20,000 6 years ago. Some how all these numbers don't computer

Mike,
Saturn Corp. sez there are no open recalls or campaigns on this vehicle number's VIN.

Charley,
It is about a half hour job to swap a set of 4 plugs in this engine. Remove a plate on top and there are the sparkplugs and wires. My neighbor replaced both plugs and wires for parts of 80.00 and his labor of an hour.

I have received a lot of replies from the Motorhome tow car forum as this saturn is the toad that is towed by my motorhome and we have special forums at IRV.COM for anything and everything about motorhomes and the toads that are towed.
I had a reply from a GM Technician that stated the charges seemed way high to him based on the amount of time it takes to do that work.
Another wrote me that when he complained about the price gouging at a California Dealer to the Saturn 800 number, they sent him a $100.00 Chit to be used at any Saturn dealer anywhere. This sez to me they are agreeing that Calif Dealers are gouging their customers.
Bebop

Another day, another problem. Temp guage was showing hot, so I figured thermostat. NOOO. Water pump, intake gasket, serpentine belt, plugs and wires. Even the air filter and a turn signal bulb. Another thousand or so.
Guess I'm stuck with it now.
DonM

Haven't had good luck with American made vehicles over the years. The Mazdas, Toyotas Subaru's and Nissans have been better.

Although we really love our little Sion XB, and are buying a 2nd one for a company delivery vehicle, we have had a surprising number of little things wrong with the first one.

1. Radio that cuts off and changes stations at will (replaced).

2. Door locks that simply activate randomly. Once, at a gas station, the locks activated when I was filling up. Had to call Pop-A-Lock. Dealer says there's not much he can do until it happens again and we can get the car to them....inconvenient, at best.

I read Toyota is having volume related quality problems.

That's sad.


Russ

As you know I am not American but I have to put in a good word for American cars made since 1990. I am still driving my 1994 Chevy Camaro Z28 and it is still a great car 180,000 miles later. Maybe it is because it is designed as a high performance car that has made it so reliable for so long.

I am waiting for the new Camaros to start production again ( 2009 I think ) before I think about getting another vehicle. I just love having a muscle car with a back seat that can be folded down to create enough space to let me pack in 2 guitars, guitar amp, keyboard amp, keyboard and general accessories. It is fun to drive and practical as well. Both my wife and myself each drive a Chevy Camaro Z28. I love these cars. Don't be too quick to write off all American made cars.




[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 01-07-2007).]

Nigel, you forgot about putting your little dog in the back seat with the gear
Hey, don't misunderstand me, the Saturns are great cars. We drive two of them and tow one behind the motorhome everwhere we go. This is the first money I had to spend on them to date. BUT............the dealers.......are an entirely different subject. That problem has ended because i have now found an HONEST owner operate 4 bay shop with room for 10 cars, a mile from home. I spent over an hour Friday interviewing the owner and a couple of his top wrenches. They can do everything the dealer shop does and charges about half of their flat rates.
Nigel, the morning paper sez Camero is coming out with a new convertible shortly
Best to all,
Bill

[This message has been edited by BEBOP (edited 01-07-2007).]