Yep. I would have never known if my brother had not become a professor. He is about as kind a fellow as I know and very conscientious and dedicated. Not once, but twice, he's come across to egocentric idiots like you describe in his career and it has kept him from gaining tenure. Twice, he has had to quit and go to another university because he couldn't take it anymore. And he's as diplomatic as they come but he definitely spoke his mind. He says politics in academia is unbelievable.

I work in a huge company of 65,000 people. I see this all the time. I'm no expert on this topic, but as a manager myself, I have been trained in these issues.

Normally, when reconciliation and understanding between a supervisor and an employee cannot be obtained, a third party arbitrator should be used to resolve differences. This is usually an HR relationship manager. However, it is much too late in this case. Here's why:

When you first observed these negative behaviors by your manager, you should have been on the superior so fast, that his head would have spun. I would have sent a message immediately that his behavior would not be tolerated. If I could not resolve this one-on-one, I would have brought in the mediator to enforce the respect and hostile environment issues.

You are currently at a disadvantage, in that you have not addressed this issue head-on in the past. This sort of makes YOU look bad. Bringing it up on the way out the door looks like sour grapes and also creates skepticism regarding your claim.

I feel your pain on this, but nothing can be gained by trashing the other manager when you put up with it for two years! Let it go, and start new at another place.

Al

[This message has been edited by kbrkr (edited 11-19-2006).]

To answer one of the questions..yes I have tried to resolve this issue directly with him, with little results. Knowing him also, any type of HR exposure would have probably resulted in some kind of more sabotage or other type of retaliation.

Al,
Just to clarify, I won't be doing it in any disrespectful manner. So I disagree a little bit with the 'trashing' part, obviously I am not a vindicitive or sour person as you can see I am asking all sorts of advise from people. Hmmm..I don't know I guess I could just probably not say anything (and keep the upper level management guessing)and knowing the manager I deal with, he may do it again...but then I may look bad also because I didn't share it with them.



[This message has been edited by KN_Fan (edited 11-19-2006).]

Hard to say whether you should or shouldn't...
I guess I'm not in your shoes but if I were in a similar situation I'd probably say it like it is. I'm not the type to walk away though... At the same time if you're somewhat ambivalent about leaving or staying I think it is risk free for you to allow yourself to come forward and may be even confront the supervisor. If he's got any balls at all he'll respect you for it. If not... he might just get his knickers in a twist... But I guess if you're leaving it won't matter one way or the other.

I know it sounds somewhat macho but sometimes you just have to do what works.

At the same time, if you've thought about this a million times and decided to just cut losses (if any ensue) and move on that is also understandable. Some things just aren't worth wasting your time on.

-ED-

Please voice any questions if you have any.

What you do, depends on what are you trying to achieve:

If you want to continue work for the company, then you should really stress that the only reason you wanted to resign is that person, especially if any questions to colleagues of yours or former bosses, will be answered generally with "KN_Fan is one of the best persons to work with".

There is no lie in describing the situation as it is, and (the way I see it) no gain in hiding things from top executives, things they should know. What they do with the knowledge you provide, you dont have to care.

On the other hand, if you want to resign for any other additional reason, then you can again tell the situation like it is, doing both the company and your successor the favour of getting rid of someone of no dignity, or professional manners, of no benefit for the company.
Again, what is the gain for not telling the situation as it is?

the way I see it, in both circumstances, you will gain or at least you won't lose. First, you continue to work for the company, minus the jokes, personal attacks, or even better, minus the person.
Second, you go to work somwhere else, having reccomendations, gain, minus the person.

I understand that you didn't go to the HR straight away, (I would also try to resolve things in more personal way, without resorting to umpires) but well, that is history. No use to cry over spilt milk.

As of the "bitter end" and "bearing a grudge" thing, no matter what they think, it is what will YOU or OTHERS may gain of this.
Theodore
Theodore

Theodore..very we'll thought out and articulated response. In fact, the exchange as a whole, reflects positively on the "zone" the individual members and the group in general.


Thanks,


Russ

Update:

As of Monday I'm a free man (Friday was officially my last day) and I didn't get to air out the last few details due to the execs were all in the meeting..but that's ok I think it was meant (or not meant) to be. My confidant in the company told me however that certain people have been questioning the real reason why I left (because my performance have been great and things seem to be ok on the surface and career wise they thought that I was doing well) and they're speculating that my manager was the reason why I left and turned out that he made more enemies in the company than I thought.

Anyway...left the company with my last good byes, a couple additional managers shared their personal thanks and offered themselves as references. The execs also asked for my home address to mail in their letter of references also..so I think I'm pretty set in that area.

Sent my last parting email and celebrating the rest of the night at a Brew Fest and finishing with a couple rum'n coke

That's all

If I may add a short note (more like questions) to this....

So I have experienced working for three different companies...very small companies (under 30 people), Small-Mid company (my recent company) of about 500 people and Big size company (1000 people..>$1 billion plus)

There are pluses and minuses and the stereotypes so far are:

Big companies really milk you for what its worth...long hours, etc. But my experience with the bigger company (the one prior to my last one) that they take harrasment and similar incidents more seriously (or at least the managers are more aware of their behavior?)

Small companies- more reasonable hours, but HR people may not have the teeth since the owner has control over what's going on...or the HR dept sometimes function just to take care of health care benefits, etc.

I've seen a few articles, message boards about bad managers and what they can do to the workforce. One of the articles mentioned that 90% of Americans have worked for a bad manager at least once in their lives..it's just an amazing number. Looking back almost 19 months ago I hope my expectation was not too idealistic? I asked for Respect (no condescending remarks like "I will treat you like a subordinate from now on"), no making fun of my personal info (race, religion, etc), not taking credits for my work, not giving me a hard time if I just happened to leave an hour early, etc...

Kinda a rethorical question...is a good, professional, fair, respectful manager just a myth? I mean it all boils down to treat others how you want to be treated yet, why certain people would just be abusive towards others?

Sorry this is kinda a first time thing for me to deal with somebody with all this problem and I'm jut curious.

On a different note...I've saved enough money to just hang out, not worry about work for a few months..perhaps focusing more on my music