Conservation. Conservative. Hmm, interesting that they have the same root. I'm all for being conservative, and practicing sensible conservation. But if I don't want to ride around in a super light car made of recycled soda cans, then that's up to mee.
It's really difficult for me to be a republican, even though I'm conservative. Because I think the republicans have forgotten what conservatism is as well. Again, I go back to, did government pay for Edison's education, Belle's? And poor Obama, bless his heart, but the government did not invent the computer. We don't need more federal money in education. We need less. The colleges will just raise prices even more if they know that the infinite empty pockets of government is paying for it. Then, eventually, nobody will pay for their own college, the government will just pay for all of it. Great.

I have to use some assistive technology on my computer. I use a program called Jaws which turns the text on the screen into synthetic speech. A copy of jaws now costs more than a copy of Windows. Granted, it's pretty advanced technology and it has a small market compared to windows. But, what makes it so expensive is also the fact that it is government agencies that pay for the software for most blind people. All the various vocational rehab agencies and other state aid agencies are paying for this software for these people. And most blind people, who are not working, consider it a right. The irony is,
the word Jaws, stands for "Job Access with Speech".
"job" access. But most people using it don't have jobs. But it's too expensive for them to buy, so either they get the government to pay for it, or they hack it and download it from torrents.
I personally don't believe this program would cost as much if the developers knew the government wasn't writing the check. Lately, they've been spending all their time suing their competition for alleged patent violations.

I'm not against government programs like this entirely, I got quite a bit of aid from my Vocational Rehav agency. But for every person like me that it helped, it has also enabled a few others to accomplish nothing. My uncle was also given a lot of aid through VR and he's the biggest drunk in my home town, who accomplishes absolutely nothing.

My point is kind of meandering, but I guess it boils down to this. Whether or not I got VR aid, I'd have figured out a way to accomplish my goals. And whether or not my uncle gets VR aid, he isn't going to accomplish anything. So I don't think government investing more billions into the education system or any other system for that matter is going to make a huge difference. It has to do with the character of the people more than anything else.

Lots of stuff in there I agree with, especially the part about personal responsibility. America could certainly use a kick in the pants in that department. BUT, we have a serious problem in this country that is not going to fix itself. Each year we fall further and further behind the rest of the major economies of the world in academics, and especially in the fields of math and science. And although I share your sentiments about helping ourselves, I feel that the system has eroded past the point where it will right itself purely through the power of self-determination. I, for one, would rather see 10 billion a month go into our educational system than to an unwanted and unpopular war, even if a few slackers benefit who don't deserve it. Take care and keep making good music.

chas

I have nothing against the oil companies making profits either. But record profit after record profit, after record profit while
(1) the Republicans give them tax breaks,
(2)while the republicans let them re-assemble the price gouging Standard Oil by watering down the anti-trust laws and allowing them to merge,
(3)while the Bushies gave huge tax credits to gas-guzzling hummers and other SUVs, and
(4)while the consumer is paying up the you-know-what for oil.

And now, right before election time, the oil prices go down a bit. Hmmm, that happened exactly 4 years ago.

McCain and the other republicans are in bed with the oil companies.

They have given us nothing but a recession since Bush got in. Their philosophy isn't working, except to get a vast minority of people richer at the population's expense.

If you want 4 more years of the same, vote for McCain, if you want a chance at a reversal, vote for Obama.

I am a moderate and used to lean towards the republican party until I saw what was happening under Reagan. I don't see the democrats as the answer, but right now the lesser of the two evils.

The republicans want to nuke social-security saying they want to get big government off our back.

Yet they contract out former government services to private companies like Halliburton at top dollar, spending more than if it was a government service, and do it on credit so we end up paying more for everything (hidden "tax) and then say they are cutting taxes. This is putting more government on our backs, not less.

Then they go to war with Iraq bearing by false witness against them spending trillions of out tax dollars on it - more than enough to rescue social security for 100 years

*** remember the WMDs - and don't tell me they didn't know Iraq didn't have them. WMDs are only good as a deterrent. If we were rattling our sabers at Sadam's door and he had WMDs, he would have said, "Step across that border and I'll nuke you". He had nothing to lose at that point.

So any idiot by then knew he didn't have them. But going to war with Iraq proved very profitable to halliburton, blackwater and the other contractors while it wrecked our economy.

If you want more of that, vote for McCain - Obama was wise enough to see through it and vote against the war.

Answer this, are you better off financially than you were when Clinton held the reins? (and I didn't vote for him either, but I sure miss him).

And the trailer trash running mate who said in our newspaper that we should go to war with Russia would only be a heartbeat away from being able to pull the trigger on that mistake.

Is that what you want?

I'm afraid this country cannot bear 4 more republican years.

Pretty much every liberal minded person I've ever tried to debate simply won't stay on topic. Just throw in 1-liners on about 10 different subjects to make a little guise at being informed. This last post is a perfect example. I'm in a gypsy swing band with a liberal minded fellow, who calls himself independent. Anyway, I've had the exact same problem. HE started in on voter fraud, so I decided to take him on with that. Only problem, wouldn't stay on subject. Every opportunity to talk about Cheney this, Bush that, Iraq this, 911 that. Oh, he sounds amazingly informed until you try to keep him on task. Anyone can fight with 1-liners, but it's hard to win with them.

[This message has been edited by FAEbGBD (edited 10-12-2008).]

The financial situation is bad, but the level of polite, intellectual discourse makes some of the ranting and raving about this or that arranger from that past a little silly, don't you think?

Rory and Chas, you guys made extremely thoughtful contributions to my little charity project, so it's no surprise that you have participated in this volatile discussion with thoughtful yet different angles/opinions.

Wouldn't it be great if we all conducted our interpersonal affairs in this manner?

Thanks, guys,


Russ

Quote: Pretty much every liberal minded person I've ever tried to debate simply won't stay on topic End Quote

Pretty much what the NeoCons do when they want to divert the subject from the truth, throw in the word Liberal as if it was a bad word.

The US was founded as a Liberal country, Washington, Jefferson, Franklin and many of the others used the word to describe the US. If it weren't for Liberals, women, African Americans, Chinese and other non-white males would NOT be able to vote.

So to be anti-liberal is to be anti-American.

Understanding who put us into the worst economic situation since the Great Depression is part of the way to use our voting power to make sure those people no longer run things.

Did you know that less than a week after the federal government committed $85 billion to bail out AIG, executives of the giant insurance company headed for a week-long retreat at a luxury resort and spa, the St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, California.

Rooms at this resort can cost over $1,000 a night. AIG documents obtained by a congressional investigation show the company paid more than $440,000 for the retreat, including nearly $200,000 for rooms, $150,000 for meals and $23,000 in spa charges.

And we taxpayers paid for the bail-out.

And since the Republicans have had been running the government for the last 8 years, not only did they create the climate that allowed this to happen, they also engineered the bail-out that not only took our tax money to save their butts, but didn't even make them responsible for their own actions. We are paying for their cheating, not them.

If you want more of the same, simply vote another Republican majority. They've been doing the same thing since Reagan.

Don't listen to the ads, look at their past actions and use that in the voting booth.

A few weeks ago, in the Palm Beach Post it was notated that while we are having the housing crisis, mansions costing mega-million dollars and up are not affected, because the people that can afford them have been positively affected by the current economic situation.

So (ON TOPIC) how is the current economic crisis affecting me?

It has changed me from a political moderate who gave both sides of the aisle equal deliberation in any election to one who now feels that a Republican candidate has a liability on his/her shoulder that he/she must overcome by his/her actions and past voting record.

I see fewer people in the audiences of the clubs that I play, fewer people in the restaurants in which I visit, fewer people spending money on non-essentials, and that includes entertainment. My vote will be used to make sure the people responsible are not re-elected, and in my opinion, McCain is an extension of the policies that got us where we are today.


[This message has been edited by Notes_Norton (edited 10-13-2008).]

Can't I just be conservateive? Do I have to be neocon? OR does that trendy word enhance your argument some way? I don't remember saying anything about commie libs. Oh well, one thing it did was showed me I might as well save my fingers trying to discuss any of the points above.

Hmm.

I thought since I told you I was a moderate and you threw out the liberal word, it was only fair to throw out the neocon word.

The fact is, the Republicans have held the reins of the country for 8 years and we are in far worse shape than we were when they took over.

Voting them in again will only insure that we have at least 4 more years of the same.

That's the good thing about being moderate. I can swing either way when I think the course of the nation needs correcting. And IMO it definitely needs correcting.

Party Politics Aside,

this is how I see it:



'nuff said

Notes_Norton
Your forgetting one very important thing... It was Bill Clinton that started the mess of Fannie and Freddie!

He put the policy in place to have everyone own a house...WHETHER THEY COULD PAY FOR IT OR NOT....and the Congress has known about this problem for a long time and did nothing!


Get your wallet out, in 2010 the everyones tax's will go up!

In fact if he raises them in 2009..he will just lie and say that Busches tax breaks have just expired...actually that's not until 2010.

Lee