I just want to pass something on to members here who might happen to have an antique in the family that has been collecting dust for years.

I collect antiques and I'm sure others here do as well... However..., you'd be surprised at how people (unknowingly) destroy the value of an antique item.

I was just looking at an auction for a mint condition civil war era black powder revolver. BEAUTIFUL FIREARM! It still has a very visible engraved scene on the cylinder too. However, this knucklehead selling the firearm just DESTROYED the value of that old Colt (probably reducing its value by more than half). Looking at the pictures it was obvious the guy polished the brass, and polished the wood grips!!!!! OMG! He has no idea what he just did to the value of that firearm. Collectors look for signs of "natural aging". An old firearm that has 140+ years of petina on the grips and brass is a GOOD THING. You can lightly oil the frame, and bar..., but for the love of all that is holy.., DON'T POLISH THE BLOODY BRASS OR WOOD GRIPS!

People for some reason get the urge to CLEAN old things or refinish/stain them if it's furniture. DO NOT..., I'll say again DO NOT DO THIS. So many valuable antiques lose more than half of their value because of this.

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 12-11-2008).]

Squeak, you're so right. A few years ago, I polished an old WW11 Rand sidearm. It's worth $700.00 now, but would be worth $1200 or more if i hadn't touched it.

I have an old 53 ES 295 gibson. Had it redone in Black 10 years ago. Had I left it untouched...well, I don't even want to talk about it

Dumb old Russ

Ohhhhh man Russ.., you refinished that guitar! Yikes!!!!!! One of the early Fender Tele's came up on the Antique's Road Show not too long ago. EVERYTHING original..., case, strap, amp, and sales slip! The bloody guitar alone was worth damn near $45,000 The little extras pushed the total value for the lot up to $50,000!

Yea, but I know better now. I 'm so old that I have guitars I bought new for a few hundred dollars that are worth more than my house is now!

Amaising, isn't it?

Problem is, I can't bring myself to sell a single one, and I have more than 300.


Russ

One of these days Russ.., I'm gonna show up with just a sleeping bag.., some candy bars, and a case of Pepsi and literally spend a weekend in your warehouse

Yep I know how that is. In 1976 I bought a 1964 Gibson ES335. It wasn't really vintage then but it sure is now. But like you Russ there is no way I could ever sell it.

Nigel, my favorite ES-355 was stolen in 1975. I replaced it with a new 1976 ES-355 (red, with a bigsby). I never could keep it in tune, so I just didn't play it. After the store I got it from got a really good repair guy, I took it to him (about 95). Others had just adjusted the rod. He discovered that there was a lifetime warranty on it, IF (big IF) i could proove I was the original owner. I had no idea where the reciept was. A neck replacement was $450.00 at the time. Carl, my long-time friend and owner of Carls Music Center, disappeared in the back. 1/2 hour later, he came back with his "out" book. He let musicians try instruments, and logged them in and out. There, in the book was a record of the day I took the 3335 and a 147RV, with an indication that it was sold to me and an invoice number. Gibson accepted the entry as proof of purchase. Turns out, the problem was a missing truss rod nut. At the time, Gibson ran hot and cold as far as QC is concerned.

Another reason why I always try to shop with people I know and trust.

STill hve the 335...it's GREAT, and valuable (not sure how much).


Russ

Squeak, you'd be welcome, BIG TIME! I'd introduce you to my favorite "antique"...Annie, the lady who has put up with me for over 43 years.

(raise your right hand and take a vow of silence on that one)!

Russ (no spring chicken, either) Lay

Russ.., I've been talking to the wife about taking a trip over there... Do you realize that you and I are less than 2 1/2 hours apart..???? On mapquest Lexington KY is only 2 hours and 25 minutes from my home. I'm right next door to you in West Virginia. I'm about 30 minutes east of Huntington WV.

My wife had me do a search for visitor attractions last night for Lexington.

Squeak, Dave (UD) and Zuki have survived a trip to the "dungeon". Let's look at getting together after the first of the year. It'd be GREAT!


Russ

They really are a great guitar. I first fell in love with the ES-335 listening to Larry Carlton play one with The Crusaders. That is what inspired me to buy mine all those years ago. Since living in Los Angeles I have seen Larry play live on quite a few occasions. One very memorable time was at the Greek Theater in the 90s when after playing a few songs Larry said he really needed a 2nd guitar player to play some of the tunes from his latest album and told us he had a friend who was gonna help out. Joe Satriani walked onstage and the rest of the show was him and Larry playing together. Awesome stuff. One weird thing though was that a number of jazz snobs got up and walked out of the show. But for the rest of us it was a real treat to hear those two together. An awesome blend of jazz and rock virtuosity.

But the most intimate performance I saw Larry Carlton give was at The Baked Potatoe in Nth Hollywood which is really just a very small bar. Kerry and I got there early before the show started and had a table close to the front where the band plays and there isn't even a stage area just a clear area in front of the tables. Larry came in a put his amp a few feet away from our table and then asked us if we minded if he used our table as his sheet music stand. Of course we were thrilled. And we then watched the entire show with Larry playing guitar right in front of us 3 feet away.


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 12-14-2008).]

Nigel, Larry is GREAT. I was really worried when he got shot in the face about 20 years ago. Came back stronger than ever. His playing has more of an edge with Return to Forever than Lee's, but he's the perfect replacement.

Goes to show that, occasionally, great players get some of the recognition they deserve.


Russ

Russ,

US $ 4.000,-- in mint condition
US $ 3.800,-- in good condition


Nigel,

a 1964 335 :
Sunbirst factory stop tail between 25.000 - 30.000
Sunbirst factory bigsby between 19.000 - 23.000
Sunbirst factory meastro between 21.000 - 23.000



Fred

Thanks, Fred-good to hear from you. Remembered i paid around $700-$800.00 for this little guy. It's in excellent shape, because it wasn't playable for many years. 2 or three times it's purchase price isn't bad. Still, it's 30 years old, so that may not be so good in terms of an investment.

Like to hear from you more often...


Russ

I have a few antiques myself. My three antique phonographs. That are still in playable conditon. The one's I have, are not in mint condtion. So they are not that valuable, but they are fun to have. I also have soem books, from the 18th and 19th century. That were rebound. This has decreased their value, but they will last a lot longer, had they not been rebound. I did not buy, or aquire these as an investment, but more for my own enjoyment.

Also, my parent's and I run a small antique business, in a loacl antique mall. We, manage to sell quite a bit, compared with most dealers in there. Mainly because our prices are reasonable.

Rebound literature's value isn't always completey destroyed. A lot of the value would depend on when the literature was rebound..., and the quality of the rebinding. I've seen rebound literature dating to the 18th century (and earlier) collect a pretty penny.

I'm going to score a HUGE buy today.., as I know the item is still at a local shop (I won't give the location though because the item is MINE.... muuwaaahaahaahaa ALL MINE!) I was at a shop the other day with the wife..., saw a BEAUTIFUL cup and saucer on the shelf..., hand painted, top end quality on the gold guilding.., I flipped that set over to have a look at the makers mark...., BOOOOOOOMMMMMM can anyone say "Tiff&Co." Made in the 1930's..., and when I saw the price I about hit the floor... It's SOOOOO low it's not even funny.., and I highly doubt the store owner has even flipped this thing over to check the marks! It's an all cash store (very small.., I had cards and no cash).., I was there when the store was about to close (over the weekend). I will be there first thing this morning when it opens up to pick up that item

Ohhhh I love antiques..., I love the history, the craftsmanship, the HUNT!

Not too long ago I got my hands on a nice old book by Kipling (printed in 1915). One of his works that had a symbol upon the cover that caused Kipling a lot of problems during WWII (poor guy had no idea how that symbol would be seen by the world so many years later.., and how it would affect his career). Bad part to that story is that I didn't have much time to spend in that store and I found this book in a box of along with tons of other books... Later I found out that sitting at the bottom of that box was a first edition Kipling titled "The Jungle Book". I was pretty ticked off about missing that one

My father has a muzzle loading rifle (in pieces) that he still used to use until the early 60's I think, until it almost exploded in his face.

The story goes like this:
There was a muzzle loading rifle in his father's house, (made years before and actually used during the Greek Revolution of 1821). The rifle was intact until probably 1941, until my grandfather burned it, because if German occupation forces found anything remotely resembling a gun he would face execution. It probably used to look like those carried by these guys:



Some time (probably late 40's), my father and one of his friends salvaged some very old muzzle loading guns and took the lock from them, it looks almost exactly like this:



My father actually carved a complete stock by himself and took the salvaged lock and the old gun's barrel and made a "new" rifle. But he couldn't reliably use the thing with modern, more potent gunpowder, so after some time he dropped it.

I actually tried to find out data about it once he showed me the lock, and from the inscripions I found that (the lock at least) is French made, and looks very very similar to models from around 1840-1860.

He needs to check the intergity of the barrel. Look for any severe pitting.., fractures, ect. You gotta be careful with old firearms. The best thing you can do if you're not privy to gunsmith work.., is take it to a pro and have it inspected. These old firearms can be very dangerous if not given a proper inspection prior to shooting.

I know people that have found old firearms in chests, bookcases, ect., that were 100+ years old and STILL LOADED! I actually know someone personally who's father found an old perc. (cap and ball) pistol. that was quite old and still loaded. The guy was careless, cocked the hammer, and let her go before even inspecting the weapon. The weapon was found in a old damp basement on a shelf (dirt floor basement). All the moisture over the years reeked havoc on that old pistol. When he let that hammer down..., BOOOOOOM pistol actually fired and exploded. He was lucky and had some minor burning and a few cuts.

Thankfully Squeak, this thing hasn't been shot for 50 years or something, the weapon is in 3 pieces now, the barrel is very corroded.

The lock mechanism (trigger etc) was very corroded also, one friend of my father did something like dumping it in a tin box with diesel fuel mixed with engine oil and heating it up, or some other alchemy and it came up much better looking.

The barrel is very long, the whole weapon is about 6 feet long (I'll try to post a photo where my wife holds it, she is shorter than the weapon!).

Do you have any idea how can we get rid of the corrosion?

Ahh, by the way, do you happen to have a Skype account? Last time I enjoyed talking to you but I didnt have a camera, I have one now.

With these old firearms they're not using "stainless steel". You have to keep the barrel and other metal parts lightly oiled. Try NOT to touch them (the metal barrel) with bare hands as well because the oils on your fingers can also cause issues (that even goes for modern firearms).

I think you mentioned that an entire new stock was made for the weapon.., so taking that into consideration you can polish and stain that up any way you want. With old firearms so many people don't realize how they destroy the value by doing extensive cleaning. With an old powder pistol (revolver) for example..., people get the urge to clean and polish the grips.., and to shine the brass. That's a HUGE NO NO! Grips (as well as stocks for rifles) need to be in good condition with ALL the natural petina. Brass needs to be left alone as well. Oiling the metal is ok to do, but must not be overdone.

Removing the rust from the barrel can be done in several ways. With old firearms.., I've seen people use a VERY VERY VERY lightly abbrasive pad with a touch of gun oil. Go to your local firearms store and let them know you gotta an old flintstock and you need something to get the muck off the barrel... They should be able to get something to ya that'll do the trick. I've never had to go beyond some light oiling on old firearms when dealing with a little rust. Also if you end up using a slighty abbrasive pad.., BE VERY CAREFUL. Remember RUST is CANCER to metal. Scrubbing to hard with something overly abbrasive will remove the rust AND metal. You'll then be left with severe pitting.

I haven't used Skype in a very long time. I would doubt it if my screen name still worked as I've not used the account in a VERY long time.. It may even have been years!

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 03-11-2009).]