[QUOTE]Originally posted by ianmcnll:
[B]Going to War over Religion is basically killing one another to see who's got the better imaginary friend.

Also, I think this topic should be moved to The Bar.

Ian
It is not religion that leads people to kill each other – It is how people use religion for their own cause. Most of the religions teach harmony and peace.

And yes, this topic does belong elsewhere.

John C.

True John, and we should repsect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children are smart.

Pardon my ignorance, but war, religion and such topics should be posted elsewhere.
I can't see that the SZ are the proper place, not even in The Bar.
As some already might know, discussion like this, specially in Bars, often ends up in
fights ... oh well, at least they have music playing while they knock eachother down.
But of course, that's only my personal point of view.

Cheers
GJ

This subject matter does not belong here! I stand with those opposed to this kind of a posting here on the SZ, but for different reasons.

I also oppose reading the obituary postings that some members have been contributing.

I come in here to get away from this kind of news. It's my escape from the real world (even with the bickering that goes on in here). It's like a Twilight Zone meets Alice in Wonderland for musicians here and I for one would like to keep it that way!

If I want a dose of ugly reality, if I want to get depressed, if I need a reason for not wanting to play music anymore, I can get this kind of info in any TV newscast. I don't need to be reminded of it here!

Speaking for myself, I would appreciate not seeing these "world news" headings in here. And if I want to know who "just died," I can read a newspaper. If they're a big name, it will be on page 1. If it's not on page 1, I don't need to know about it!

Lucky

Whats so difficult about reading a heading and passing it by? I don't like the Obits either. But I just don;t open the thread rather then open it and then contribute to it whining about it..

Because I don;t like to read about death someone should not post it? Hardly. Post away.

Because someone feels empathy for a certain group under duress in the world they may or may not identify with they should not ask for prayers from the faithful??

the non believers and non interested are free to read another post about the wonders of the Audya!!! The rest of us will pray for peace and the comfort of the OP who feels strongly about this issue and as an artist is most likely more sensitive then most..

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-30-2008).]

Things to Remember During a War

1. The only things more accurate than enemy fire is friendly fire.

2. Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo.

3. Teamwork is essential. It gives them more targets to shoot at.

4. No inspection-ready unit ever passed combat.

5. No combat-ready unit ever passed inspection.

6. Remember: your aircraft was made by the lowest bidder.

7. Never draw fire, it will irritate the rest of your formation.

8. Never share a cockpit with someone braver than you.

9. You are not Tom Cruise.

10. SAMs and AAA have the right-of-way.

11. If you aren't sure, the SAMs are pointed at you.

12. If hit, landing near the people that just shot you down is not a good idea.

13. Close only counts in horseshoes, nukes and proximity-fused missiles.

14. Smart bombs have bad days too.

15. The best defense is to stay out of range.

16. If you are short on everything but enemy, you are in combat.

King....

There's a time and place for everything.....mostly "place."

Words are powerful. I'm about as sensitive as any musician. When I go down the list of threads, which is a necessity, and see "Pray for peace in the middle East," I'm already affected. It stands out like an egg in a turnip patch.

I'm not reading Network news. I come here to read about music and musicians...not world affairs.

Sure I have sympathy for the cause. I've been reading about it like everyone else. But I keep the subject in it's place.

No, I don't have to read the thread and most times I don't. The heading alone bothers me.

And what if this gets out of hand, and it becomes the norm for this room?

Now there are many non-musical topics I'd like to bring up myself......MANY! But I stick to music topics, which is what this room is set up for. Why should I take up space with my own issues?

>>>>>>>>> "Because someone feels empathy for a certain group under duress in the world they may or may not identify with they should not ask for prayers from the faithful?"<<<<<<<<

Last I looked this is not a church. And, also, although I sympathize with the innocents who are being affected over there, I resent being told I need to pray over the situation. I will pray because I want to, not because someone wants to send me on a guilt trip.

Lastly....this is no reflection on Mike (OP). He means well and I agree with everything he has said...and I DO feel as strongly as HE does about it. As musicians, we're trained to bring beauty into the world. These kinds of situations are particularly difficult for folks like us to digest.

If you'll look closely, my only beef was not with what Mike said but that it should not have been presented in a room geared towards music talk. Would you go to a meeting of Weight Watcher's and start talking about the situation in Israel/Gaza?

Lucky

If we remember that this forum is not a local area meetingplace where maybe 95%
of the "gang" usually have the same opinion of different matters, but a global
forum where visitors and members from all over the world meet, it may be easier
to avoid topics like this.
As far as I know, (correct me if I'm wrong), no wars are started because of any
music matters, but it sure has because of religion and hunger for more land, gold
and so on.
Let's keep the SZone the "Nigel way", about music and friendship no matter religion
or ethnical origin!

Cheers, and Happy New Year to everybody!
GJ

I feel that there has been some good sharing on this topic, it has renewed our awareness and it was a good post – But it is time to put it away. Religion and politics normally start with good intentions – when carried too far they seem to bring out the dark side of people.

I am glad this subject was posted and now let’s go back to music. Amen!

John C.

Aren't you the OP of "The Safe Zone: where you can drop off your thoughts safely". Where your first line was "I’m hoping Nigel doesn’t mind me trying this idea out." Apparently you have no issue with going off topic.

How do you justify "allowing" safe places to post ones thoughts regarding anything yet deny another the same?

If I went to "weight watchers" and someone asked the group to pray about something they fell strongly about, as a believer who puts his beliefs far above his "weight" I would do the exact same thing and support and defend the person making a simple request. Then move on to food.....

Its OK..no one is TELLING you to pray for anything....Someone is asking...

Sometimes people feel so strongly about something so painful to them they seek the support of those they are most close to. There is nothing ever wrong with that.Ever. There is always a time and a place for that.

Its 7 words! SEVEN WORDS Read them, ignore them, get angry,judgmental,whatever AND PASS. I have not even opened one single Obituary thread. I'm not interested. I won;t go into the thread and post my distaste or offense at the subject!!! Freddy Hubbard is dead. He had a great life. He will be enjoying a greater life now. Sad for those he left behind. OK. No need to open the thread. No need to school the OP on the appropriate nature of the post as it relates to "General Arrangers"

By passing on the thread you allow the faithful to help and comfort. IS that such a bad thing? The non believers and non interested can move on. The OP is comforted to know he is not alone in his feelings and maybe just maybe feels a little better knowing others he shares a special interest with care a little bit too.

NIGEL is the ONLY forum cop. Apparently he feels some empathy for the event and/or poster and is not offended by something that is bigger than any Arranger keyboard and for a single moment in time will allow someone to ask for prayer using 7 words out of millions in the forum.

I applaud him for allowing the small deference to the subject at hand.

Oh and you can call me "Frog" Its more appropriate.




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 12-31-2008).]