All I know about the American health care is what I've seen in the movie SICKO and that scared the life out of me. I've always believed that America is one of the greatest countries on earth (still do) but the level of greed I saw in that movie truly sickened me to the core.

I live in Ireland which as far as technology goes we are almost backwards over here. Yet we rank 18 places higher in our free health care over America's system. Sorry now but that's just comical and wrong on so many levels. Take the profit out from Medical Care and you get Quality. Your Mail, Fire Department and Police Force do just fine don't they ?

Regards
James

Bill ... those are interesting numbers... we often see profit figures shown in $$$ - such as ABC OIl company had $10 billion in profits, but rarely do we see the profit margin shown.... with all the problems of running a business, is it wrong to try to achieve a profit margin of 3.4% or even higher? ...(Not to change direction of this thread, but as a side note, I find it interesting when people complain about 'big business' making big profits, but LOVE it when those profits show up in their 401K or other investment portfolio.)

It is interesting that I quite recently have spoke to two gentleman from Germany and one from England and all three said that they felt the US system was better than what they had in their country.

I understand that there are people in the US who flat out cannot afford health care, but I also see the 'uninsured' numbers increased by people who will have the latest HD flat screen tv, the newest and best 'do-it-all telephone with costly monthly charges, etc. etc, and yet NOT have health care ...

What I can't understand is why health care in the US would have to have so much bureaucracy that it would cost billions to trillions of dollars !!!

t.

"SICKO" is in no way a realistic portrayal of our current health care. Moore basically cherry picked the most dramatically heinous situations he could find and weaved them together and coming up with his conclusions.

Our postal service is not a very efficient part of our gov't. Private delivery couriers (Fed Ex, UPS) have taken a lot of business from them because they do it better, faster, cheaper.

Fire and Police I would say are outstanding provided the funds are in place to allow them to perform their duties at the numbers they need. The recent Stimulus Package has sent millions of dollars into hundreds of cities to maintain operating budgets for both fire/police services.

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Bill in Dayton

A friend of mine is a health systems researcher who've I've been corresponding with regularly. Also, I should say my Wife Patty is very close to graduating with her Masters of Nursing...she'll be a CNS Certified Nurse Specialist with a specialty in Adult Care focusing on Pain Mgt. (I've learned more about medicine and our health systems in the last year than I ever could've imagined, lol...

Anyway, Dr. Aaron Carroll wrote "Its not wrong that they make money, its HOW they make it. Insurance Co's. can only make $$$ in two basic ways. 1) Covering healthy people who need little or less expensive care and 2) Not paying for care. This is as much economic forces as it is moral ones. As a member of a free market based industry, these Ins. Co's compete for the available dollars. No one begrudges them for that. But when they compete-they get better at 1) Not covering sick people and 2) Not paying for care. That's not good for a health care system. That�s the real problem. It�s the amount spent on underwriting, claims review, advertising, and � yes � executive salaries that we could do without.

As to how they still make money in these difficult times? Well, it turns out that many people are delaying care because they can�t afford the co-pays or co-insurance. Insurance companies run on such tight margins that even small delays like this can result in pretty impressive increases in revenues, which can compensate for lost customers and premiums as people lose their jobs and insurance."

You can read more of Dr. Aaron Carroll's work at his blog: http://mdcarroll.com/



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Bill in Dayton

Most NHS systems work similar, with the main advantage that if you become ill or have an accident, you do not have to worry about whether you can pay for the treatment.
The downsides are that it costs a lot more to run, and you cannot expect instant treatment for none life threatening health issues. (No great problems unless waiting lists are excessive)
The main problem with the UK system is that the staff are stuck in a Rut, and don�t like to change, therefore there are not as many patients treated as there could be, for the money spent.
Private Healthcare is also available if required, (Many of the larger employers include it as standard in the employee contract) and it�s entirely up to the individual to decide. (Life threatening emergencies are still done on the NHS)
I would not accept Tax cuts for reduced front line services, as Tax cuts can easily be achieved by making Local and National Government (Public sector) more accountable.
As to buying TV�s etc, then that is Human nature, in that no one expects anything to happen to them, only to others.
In spite of its faults, (As mentioned above) the UK NHS is still an excellent system.
NOTE:
Culture also plays a part in the type of healthcare needed, and what works in one country may not be suitable for another.

Regards

Bill

100% of Brazilian people has health assistance controlled by federal government.
34% of people has private health assistance.

How's it work, Chico?

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Bill in Dayton

If I may add, Bill:

I haven't paid taxes since I became a citizen (1994)as local teachers and the military are tax-exempt. There's been talk that this will come to an end (this year?) but, even then, the tax rate is 6%.

Expat teachers are taxed 20% for the first six months and then pay 6%. Upon leaving the country they'll get a tax return.

The monthly premium is $20 and then there's a tobacco tax surcharge that goes to the NHI, and contributions from the national lottery. Families pay a lower rate.

As for elder care, it's tradition that family members take care of their parents so having three generations under one roof is very common. Nursing homes aren't very popular and filial piety is still mainstream. Parents that live with their children or on their own are paid monthly allowances by their children. Even working parents with married children receive such allowances.

And then there's the Smart Card:

The new healthcare cards completely replaced the old paper cards. The new smart cards consolidate functions of four different vouchers, including the regular paper card, the Children's Health Handbook, the Prenatal Exam Handbook and the Catastrophic Illness Certificate. To the card holder, it is two cards and two handbooks all-in-one, and also a great convenience: not having to renew the card every six visits. To the healthcare providers (medical institutions), proof of identification is faster and accurate and transactions are more efficient, allowing them to focus on their core services instead of administrative work. To the Bureau of National Health Insurance, information became highly manageable and timely, and fraud is drastically reduced.

Taike

Question for you, Bill...or Tony,...or...

Can someone with cancer or a fatal disease apply for health insurance from a private insurance company AND at the same rate as any other citizen?

It wouldn't be an issue in Taiwan as every citizen is required to have NHI in the first place and the premium is the same for everyone. How would such person fare in your country?

Tony Mads says:

It is interesting that I quite recently have spoke to two gentleman from Germany and one from England and all three said that they felt the US system was better than what they had in their country.

Believe me, they're a mimority. Just last week there was a debate going on on MSN and those in favor of their national health care insurance vastly outnumbered those that agreed with the three gentlemen.

Mind you, I'm not saying the Taiwan's NHI is the best as it isn't. But I do believe it to be a very good system that has saved many from financial ruin. I don't know what the best system is but I am a firm believer that every citizen is entitled to the same health care and service no matter their status or financial well-being. At least no one ever gets turned away from a hospital, even those that may not have NHI. They just end up paying the total fee but as far as I know it hasn't happened.

Taike

They would not find health insurance anywhere in the private market. If they were declared disabled, they could get some benefits from our Medicare program.

***************

Tony Mads says:

It is interesting that I quite recently have spoke to two gentleman from Germany and one from England and all three said that they felt the US system was better than what they had in their country.

Believe me, they're a mimority. Just last week there was a debate going on on MSN and those in favor of their national health care insurance vastly outnumbered those that agreed with the three gentlemen.

Mind you, I'm not saying the Taiwan's NHI is the best as it isn't. But I do believe it to be a very good system that has saved many from financial ruin. I don't know what the best system is but I am a firm believer that every citizen is entitled to the same health care and service no matter their status or financial well-being. At least no one ever gets turned away from a hospital, even those that may not have NHI. They just end up paying the total fee but as far as I know it hasn't happened.

Taike[/QUOTE]

Here's the most recent rankings of various health system,s by country from the WHO(World Health Orginazation)
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html



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Bill in Dayton