Time after time, we as a group get into silly little "pissing" contests, usually over petty little matters. The net result is hurt feelings, anger, downright rudeness (sometimes) and disrespect for the individuals involved and for Nigel and what he makes available for us.

I know that the anonymous nature of the web is responsible for some of this foolishness, but I think that there are other reasons (out comes the communications prof attitude):

* I have observed that most of the problems involve working musicians/entertainers. Competitiveness and egos come with the territory.

* The problem is usually from two distinct camps....individuals who place most emphasis on entertainment and will do whatever they think is effective to entertain, vs. individuals who think that the music is the primary thing and that it "drives the ship".

* There are hardcore members one each side.
Chas, Diki and I are on one side and Donny, Fran and Uncle Dave, for instance are on the other. Each of us thinks that we are doing things right and those on the other side aren't.

* The even-tempered, reasonable ones are in the middle...those who see the need for skills on both the entertainment AND musicianship side...guys like the "Country Gentleman" Don Mason, Rory Hoffman and others. Their talent and credentials place them above all the foolishness.

* The nature of this business is competitive. If we all lived in the same area, we'd be competing for the same entertainment budget dollar.

* There is a significant testosterone facter in play.

WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT...!

* Get to know the "other guy" as an individual. I didn't like Uncle Dave at first, but he came down for a visit, and I got to really appreciate his musicianship, his ability to entertain (I'm a little jealous, actually) and his commitment to family, friends and his students. He's welcome at my home and on my bandstand anytime and is one of my very favorite members (wish we heard more from him). Chas came across as a little caustic at first, but all it takes is a five minute visit to really apprecaiate him as a musician, intellect and friend with a really great sense of humor and admirable ethics.

There are people from the "other side" that I'm never going to "synch" with. There are people on the "other side" who are never going to particularly like or agree with my approach to music and my dedication to jazz.

You know what? That's fine, as long as we agree that we don't agree or even like the "other way" of doing things, but are civil and respectful to each other.

Frankly, I have listened to some arranger postings from some long-time members and thought that they were embarrasing.

But saying something hurtful would not accomplish anything.

I have my opinion about arrangers, playing in nursing homes, "chicken hats", Mp3 or other backing tracks, laptops on the bandstand, country music, Buffet music, Bose sound systems and lots of other stuff (one of the few good things about getting old is, you can be as obnoxious as you want and no one can do a damn thing about it). I'm grateful that people understand that these are my opinions and that these opinions are for me only and not intended to imply that other approaches are wrong or not suitable for others.

For those here I will never be "in synch" with, I'll guarantee that I will respond to courteous communications with the same. And, if my less than supportive response to a post, whether it be a piece of music, an opinion....whatever, can't shed light on the subject or balance the elements of the topic, I'm going to continue to KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT out of respect for the poster (and, believe me, that happens often).

I think we, as a very diverse (and often pretentious) group are above all the foolishness, or should be, at least.

Why not agree right now to be able to disagree but not be hurtful or to belittle each other? After all, this (Synthzone) is the media that made it possible for me to meet an amaising group of GOOD FRIENDS as diverse as Taike from the other side of the
world to Jim (Zuki) from just up the road, and lots of great folks in betweeen.

I get really sad when the flare-ups happen, regardless of the issues or individuals involved. I want them to STOP!

Don't you think we owe each other that much?


Russ


[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 11-12-2009).]

Hi Cap'n Russ,
Gee you sure dribbled a bibful there, and I aggree with you.
Many times I have had to re-read a post which has caused some vitriolic reaction, to see if I missed something, and to find nothing controversial in what has been posted, apart from an opinion.
If there is discontent between people occurring outside S/Z, then leave it ouside S/Z.
I have said in the past that I only read this Forum to learn, and that I have promised myself that I would never submit any of my music (not that I am afraid of criticism, anything but). Other people have samples of my playing, and I leave it to them to decide what they feel is suitable for others to hear. I am well aware of my limitations, and continue to strive to improve. I am glad that you have expressed your embarrassment, and reasons for refraining from comment, as I have felt the same at times, but that should not inhibit anyone who wishes to post their music, because that is just my opinion.
I try to restrain from posting here to avoid being seen as contributing to the lack of respect shown at various times, but as you see "the boy can't help it".
I have great respect for most of the posters, and their music intellect, but please let us leave it at that.
Well said Russ.
Ray




------------------
Ray The Saint

I wholeheartedly agree, Russ.

I don't care what brand one plays or how much it weighs. These are such trivial issues yet draw the most heat. Go figure!

All I can say is that I prefer to hear what a player can do with the instrument he plays. The technical stuff leaves me cold plus it's usually way over my head.

Ray, always good to hear from you, mate.

Regards

Taike



------------------
Bo pen nyang.

I totally agree with the points you make Russ. Suspending forum members is absolutely the LAST thing I want to do. And I will always give good warning that that is imminent before I take that action. But eventually things get so out of hand that I am forced to do that. But I don't take these flare ups personally. And suspensions are rarely permanent. After an indefinate cooling off period I will reinstate members .... even if they don't like me much any more As I said I don't take it personally.

I just wish people could control their behavior or simply ignore postings that they can't trust themselves to respond to in a civil manner. In other words simply act like mature adults.

These forums just aren't the place to make obnoxious statements that end up offending and upsetting a large number of people here, not just those they were aimed at. Plus it results in other valid discussion being overwhelmed by vitriolic tirades.

Having said that let me buy you all a virtual drink and toast to a great future on the forums together.




[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 11-13-2009).]

Hi Nigel, good to see you respond. Sorry I cannot meet you at the bar, But anytime, anyone of you are in Sydney, I will buy you a drink of your choice at my!!! Golf Club
Ray

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Ray The Saint

......Following on. shouldn't we all take a deep breath, read the posts on Chas's topic, and think more often of our fellow man, and be thankful for the graces we all receive.
Ray
P.S. Taike,on a lighter note, you are supposed to start with "G'Day", if you wish to be considered for honorary Aussie status.
See ya !!!

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Ray The Saint

G'Day, mate. Always nice having a chin-way with ya. By the way, have I ever told you that my aunt and uncle are Banana-Benders? They immigrated to the Lucky Country around the time I was born. Guess I must've scared them off.

Ray, that honor has been bestowed upon me several years back by a True Blue from the Top End. We did a lot of camping together. Strine...nothing like it!

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

Crikey mate you really are a helpful bloke ... true blue !!!!! Hooroo Ray

Gawd!! fellas, lets not overdo it, or we will have Paul Hogan joining in, and nobody above the Equator will understand.
Ray

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Ray The Saint

Sorry Russ,we should not be taking the seriousness away from your topic. Next post back to your topic.
Ray

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Ray The Saint

Ray, you're MAKING my point....good natured exchanges between people who like each other.

That's the way it should be!


Russ

Russ, you are an idiot. There's not nearly enough bickering on this site. You must have been kicked out of Dale Carnegie's course.
And that moron Nigel, he must be from some foreign country like Russia or Australia.
And I'll bet Taike can't speak Pig Latin.
DonM

P.S. Hope you can see the tongue in my cheek.
P.S.S. Hope it's my tongue.
onDa asonMa

Mason, if I could raise my leg that high, I'd kick your butt (LOL)!


Russ (the ultimate Mason wannabe) Lay

Uh...anway educatedway igpay, Iway amway. Oinkway! Oinkway! aike

Tay


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Bo pen nyang.

[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 11-17-2009).]

but, can you speak pig latin in Chinese? Mind, I wouldn't know the difference, but it sure would be crazy to listen to.

Wo mei you shen ma li hai!

I am not that smart!
http://www.chinese-tools.com/jdd/public/documents/cc/labarik/20080904-wim-delvoye-pigs-07.jpg

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

Russ-I suggest that the friction doesn't come from two distinct camps who hold differing views on music. Time after time after time its a basic lack of respect and manners.

Subtle digs, smart-ass responses, overt taunts all take us to the same place. Aliases are also a thing I think totally and completely detrimental to the well being of the SZ.

I've been away from the SZ for a while, current topics just aren't real pertinent to me. That's cool, it comes and goes. Plus my schedule is heavy right now. Honestly, I'm not even sure what prompted you to write what you did, lol...

Over time, we tend to see the same names involved in many of these dust-ups. At some point, I do lose respect for some of these guys. Their musical skill or knowledge have very little to do with it. If you have a high experience level but behave like a jackass much of the time...Take a hike...If you have a great technical expertise but drop the gloves every time, then likewise...

Many of us express strong, firm opinions here without getting into the real negative threads. A little bit of maturity and security goes a long way.

Hope everyone has a safe, profitable and enjoyable Holiday season!

------------------
Bill in Dayton

Time after time, we as a group get into silly little "pissing" contests, usually over petty little matters. The net result is hurt feelings, anger, downright rudeness (sometimes) and disrespect for the individuals


......which is why I stopped coming here

Shboom, nice demos on your web page..and I noticed you have your hands full..



[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 12-13-2009).]

Fran...that's GREAT! A funny, intelligent and meaningful thread.

Thanks to all!


R.

I have been lurking here for over a year and it seems like there is a core of talented and knowledgeable people on here (and some that like to stir it up a bit), but like many forums people do forget they are posting messages on a massively public place.

My rule is simple: If I wouldn't say it to the persons face, or say it through a microphone to 14,000 people then I wont type it on my computer screen either.

I'll try and do the same here!

Ya gotta love the name...TONEWHEELDUDE!

Long live the B-3!

Welcome, "Dude"!

Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 01-22-2010).]

Thanks Russ, I know its a cheesy name, but its been my online name since the 90s, can't change it now.

TWD

[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 01-22-2010).]

Hey Russ... funny, as I re read this post I think I may be sliding towards the middle of the pack. Since I no longer rely on live performance to pay the bills, I think I fuss more on the music. I am in LOVE when I play the bari sax with the big dance band, I use my midi guitar more, play more solo spotlights with no bells and whistles and I actually turn down the jo... sorry, GIGS that I don't think I'll enjoy.

I have always been an acquired taste - due to my semi-sarcastic nature and free speech ... actually explosive speech patterns, but I'm glad you got to know the inner me - the Dad the teacher the friend ... many here also know that guy, and still manage, somehow to respect the performer as well. That's the secret to all things - Balance. We teach it in school, and I try to live it at home - balance it all and it will all work out!