How many classes did you attend? How many classes did my parents attend? Yet somehow you and they have positive family environments. I don't know where the idea comes from that school is the only place to learn things.

I don't think anybody said that it's the ONLY place to learn things; just that it's a safety net for those kids who may NOT have such a wholesome, healthy, and nuturing family environment as yours. Or should they just be left to their own devices? Do you find yourself intellectually richer as a result of what you learned in school.....or do you feel that you'd be content with just what you were spoonfed....er, 'taught' at home. Isn't there some value in getting information from a variety of sources and then using your own intellect and life experiences to make some judgements for yourself? You know, it is possible that dear old mom and dad could be operating out of a 'time warp' with values derived from a different place and time, and totally out of step with the world in which we now live. Shouldn't every generation try to improve over the previous one, and learn from their mistakes rather than just blindly repeat them? As any teenager will tell you, parents don't know everything.

chas

I couldn't have said it any better, Chas.

Rory, I'll be the first in line to say that "schools" don't have all the answers but in the same breath I would state that all too many parents think schools are substitute-parents. It seems parents just can't go wrong when it comes to their kids. It's always, "what do they teach them at school" instead of "maybe I should get off my fat ass and actually spend time with my kids" or "maybe I shouldn't make my job my life" and so on.

It would've been beneficial -as a parent- to have had such programs at school. Surely beats listening to old wives tales of which quite a few are plain stupid and some even harmful. You'd be surprised what some people actually believe. You know what, every time I ask teenage girls, young women AND mothers(!!) why a baby's behind gets slapped at birth, they either say it's to make it cry or they have no idea. Pretty sad that mom or dad never took the time to "educate" her precious little girl. Like Chas says, "isn't there some value in getting information from a variety of sources and then using your own intellect and life experiences to make some judgements for yourself?"

Don't think for a moment that I am a government lover. Far from it. But without government nothing changes. Do I like politicians? Not even ONE! Most, if not all, are self-serving SOBs but at times you just have to hand it to them for without them nothing gets done.

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.



[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 06-27-2010).]

Ofsted: schools providing parenting classes

Teachers are being forced to stage parenting classes because too many children start primary school unable to talk properly or use the toilet, according to Oftsed.

Top primaries in tough areas are regularly providing lessons to show mothers and fathers how to raise their own children, the school inspectors' report said. Some even offer counselling and reconciliation services amid concerns over the effect of family breakdown on pupils.

Inspectors said �parental ineptitude� was one of the biggest obstacles faced by a large minority of primary schools in England.

It follows claims from a teachers� leader that schools are struggling to cope with increasing numbers of children raised in "Dickensian" poverty.

Lesley Ward, president of the 160,000-strong Association of Teachers and Lecturers, said some schools had little chance of hitting Government targets as many pupils arrive for lessons unable to dress themselves or use a knife and fork.

But Ofsted insisted the best primary schools overcame the problems by targeting parents themselves.

�The schools generally make themselves very accessible to parents and often find that they are providing informal citizens� advice, parenting advice, counselling and conciliation to parents who have learned to trust them,� inspectors said. �They understand that barriers to learning have to be tackled in order to make learning possible.�

In the latest study, the watchdog vetted 20 primary schools that achieve top results despite being in hugely deprived areas.

Inspectors said �ignorance about parenting� � combined with the effects of alcohol misuse, poor diets, domestic violence, crime and unstable family relationships � were among the biggest problems faced by a �sizeable body� of primary schools in England.

The starting point for some children was �very low�, according to the report.

It said: �Pupils often come to the school not toilet-trained, with parents saying, �The school will do that�. Many pupils cannot speak on arrival in school at age three and skills are well below age-related expectations. The early years are vitally important if, by the [age of 11], the children are to achieve high standards academically and socially, as they do.�

One school � Cotmanhay infants in Derbyshire � hired a family liaison worker, visited parents in their home, staged workshops on positive parenting and provided mathematics and literacy classes.

Ofsted said the best schools also had a relentless focus on back-to-basics discipline.

The head teacher of one school - Ash Green primary in Calderdale, West Yorkshire � told how he took badly behaved children home and �roasted them in front of mum and dad�.

At another school, pupils were made to sit in traditional rows facing the teacher � instead of around tables � to make sure they concentrated in lessons.

Many schools also set children by ability in the core subjects of English and maths, allowing gifted pupils �to flourish and those that need support to receive it�.

The report comes just days after Ed Balls, the Schools Secretary, said he would write to every local council in England demanding that school discipline is made a priority. He will issue fresh advice to heads, including the introduction of a �smart uniform policy�, it was disclosed.

Christine Gilbert, the chief inspector of schools, said: �Many of the stories in this report are inspiring. They show how schools, regardless of their context can help young people make something of their lives. I hope that other schools will find it useful and inspiring too.�


By Graeme Paton, Education Editor
Published: 7:01AM BST 02 Oct 2009

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Bo pen nyang.

This article nearly makes me puke. Having kids, sending them off at only age 3 to spend hours in school, and them knowing absolutely nothing when they get there; dressing, toilet, speaking. I think it is part of a larger symtpom of people just not accepting responsibility for anything, including their own kids. If banks go bad, government will take care of them. If auto companies make bad moves and go bust, government will take care of them. If I can't pay for my house, government will take care of me. If I can't find work, government will take care of me for an entire year or more. If I get sick, government will take care of me. If I want to pop out kids but not really take care of them, the government will. I'm afraid. I'm truly afraid.

I am with you FAEbGBD. I work with separated parents and the issues they have raising their kids and have been doing this for the last 8 years. There is nothing wrong in principle with educating parents who have poor parenting skills to give them a clue as to how they might raise them. And I am all for marriage counselling before during and after marriage. However as with most plans that have good intentions, it�s the philosophy and implementation of them that is the part I take issue with.

The parents that don�t give a damn won�t participate and from my experience that�s the majority of those parents that are failing their children because of poor parenting skills. Its not that they don�t know how to raise kids, in my opinion, for the most part, they simply are too selfish to care how their kids turn out. They have no long term view and are only concerned with their wants and needs and whatever makes their lives easier today. No amount of education will help this group, even if it is made compulsory. I know it�s a general sweeping statement but that is my experience and I have worked with a lot of families both intact and separated ones. So the education will, for the most part, miss the targeted audience or have little to no impact on them.

Also there is a conflict in priority as most governments have targets to get full employment to reduce reliance on state handouts and benefits and this competes with the priority of being hands on effective parent especially if both parents have to work full time and try and raise kids. This is especially difficult for single parents which again in the UK are a growing demographic.

That�s not just my opinion. In the UK the government have invested nearly 5 billion pounds into early years provision by state sponsored organisations such as the "Sure start project " but there is no evidence it has changed a thing in terms of the target audience it has been aimed at . Pre school children are still left without basic social skills and values. No is a word they have hardly ever heard!
But politicians have run out of ideas and simply keep pumping money in because the side effect is they get parents back to work who make an economic contribution through their taxes and provide cheep labour to keep the economy going.

However the flip side of having state sponsored parenting courses and general parent substitution such as before school and after school clubs and the culture that brings is that they are run by and large by academics funded by government departments ( with a bias to reduce unemployment ) who actually rarely understand the day to day experience of raising children . However they start to set the definition of what is normal and �in the best interests of your child� with out reference to you as a parent. To them putting a child in a nursery at 3 and having them spend the whole of their early childhood being raised by so called child professionals is preferable to having those children raised by their natural parents. To them, any form of physical chastisement is �child abuse�. Even telling off a child can be viewed as �emotional abuse�.

As I have said I deal with parents who after separation struggle to see their kids and parent them in the way that most parents take for granted because they are constantly fighting a legal system that is informed by professional child care experts who believe they know what is best for your child. In most cases, they have never met your child, have never met your child�s extended family, never attended your child�s school or nursery but based on their well intentioned "research " can conclude that time spent in nursery or after school events are preferable and more beneficial to your child than that same time being spent with the child�s natural father or mother or grand parents. They can conclude that your style of parenting does not match their state sponsored academically driven style of parenting and therefore your style of parenting is suspect.

I see this argument used regularly to prevent a non resident parent from having any extra contact with their own child.

I think I made myself pretty clear that I meant educating teens about marriage and parenting. While their parents may do a bad job at both, at least by showing them that they don't have to follow the same path, they may choose not to fall into the same category. Prevention is still the best medicine and education can't hurt. Giving up on them isn't helping anyone. Like I said before, government doesn't have to be involved at all as most schools are free to set their own curriculum. But don't condemn if you've already given up on them. Don't be part of the problem but rather of the solution.

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

sorry taike. You posted the link to the offstead report so i thought the discussion had widened. I have not given up on the solution. I am just wary of the authors and the motives of those that set the agenda when it comes to the state getting involved in teaching children what are effectively moral decisions as to how people should live.

That's alright, Spalding.

But nowhere is the government mentioned in the Ofsted article. I deduce that the program is purely a matter of school policy only.

But feel free to widen the the discussion.

Taike

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Bo pen nyang.

Unless we're talking only about private schools, how can you say the government isn't involved? Aren't public schools government organizations?