Yeah, I guess........but I can't help but notice that over the years, we put or helped to put, a lot of those tyrants in power (and I mean a lot). Never underestimate the power of cheap oil to help us overlook a few character flaws(including our own) .

Dave, you sound like a smart, articulate, and most importantly, reasonable, guy. You should join that bunch of eggheads that hang out at THE BAR, from time to time. A lot of good non-confrontational conversations happen there from time to time.

chas

Dave, Chas pretty much explained my take on all this. It may seem like bashing but, believe me, it isn't. You should hear what I have to put up with and you'll understand even better.

Three of the finest gentlemen and whom I consider friends -I'm not prone to use "friend" unless I mean it- are Americans: Chas, Russ and Bill "Gem City". I've learned a lot from them and hopefully they've learned a little bit from me. What draws me to them is their straightforwardness, pertinence, intellect, compassion and world view in general. In short, they're darn interesting and fun to interact with.

Let me join Chas in welcoming you to our little "Egghead" club. Hey, at least we're not scared to speak our minds. Political correctness is for sissies and phonies!

Taike


------------------
Bo pen nyang

Uh, excuse me, but weren't Americans mostly EUROPEANS before they broke away and BECAME Americans? Americans just didn't drop out of the sky, you know....

And what about the EUROPEAN conquests of the Aztecs and other central and south American cultures?

Funny way of saying, "Americans mostly being Europeans". I'm not going to argue that the Europeans haven't done their share of genocide for they were experts at it. It still doesn't take away the fact that once the US gained independence, the genocide of the Native American went on. It's not even who's done worse because such horrific events can't be measured.

I often contemplate as to what it is that makes one race deems itself superior over others. No matter how hard I try, I can't come up with an answer.

Can you imagine being the last one of your people? Can you imagine how Ishi, the last of his tribe must've felt? Or the Truganini, the last Tasmanian? Or how Congolese labourers who failed to meet rubber collection quotas were often punished by having their hands cut off during colonization by the Belgians? What about the forced assimilation of Native Americans, Australian Aborigines? Do you know that there are more slaves today than were seized from Africa in four centuries of the trans-Atlantic slave trade? The modern commerce in humans rivals illegal drug trafficking in its global reach�and in the destruction of lives. Genocide continues on a large scale, entire populations keep on gettin displaced. It's a freaking nightmare, that's what it is. And the best we can come up with is implementing boycotts and trade embargoes because we want to end up with the biggest slice of pie. Damn our competitors!

In a way we've become immune to violence. Nothing shocks us anymore. We switch from one murder to another without blinking an eye. John Wayne and Rambo mowing down zillions of natives is our kind of entertainment. We don't give a hoot as long as it doesn't happen to us. Well, I do give a hoot and it does affect me a lot otherwise I wouldn't be writing about it.

All of our resolutions to bring an end to all wars have gone up in thin air once we found out that war is a profitable business. We have enough bombs to blow up the entire planet a zillion times and yet we want more. I just don't get it. Perhaps the human race is prone to self-destructiveness but we want it to be a game of catch and mouse for it makes dying so much more fun.

Neither do I get why this thread ended up in the Bar while sports threads remain on the General Forum. Perhaps I should find out what connects sports to arranger keyboards. Or how I can book a gig at a Kwanzaa.

Taike



------------------
Bo pen nyang

Dave-it would be great to have you participate in our little discussions in "THE BAR". It's cordial, but challenging, at times. Participants include an Atheist, an Agnostic, a Buddhist and a person of Christian persuasion.

There's an academic, a former Airline pilot, a film producer and a full-time musician.

We have hard line jazzers, a world musician and a traditionalist, music-wise. We have a full-time arranger player, one who uses arrangers as a last resort and one who never touches them on a bandstand.

Over-all, the best part is sincere exchanges where expressing opinions is first, within the context of civility, friendship and a genuine desire to come to mutual understandings of issues of interest to all.

Notice, I did not say agreement. That's not the point. But, the level of mutual respect has created an atmosphere where heated disagreements, pettiness and just plain showing your a** would have resulted otherwise, in other places.

Dave, and all with a sincere desire to both express your opinions and listen to the alternatives are encouraged to participate.

Things can get pretty deep, but are always informative.

Gotta close now. This damn cheap-assed Chinese computer is about to quit on me (LOL)!

Be well,


Russ

Yes, the US was the deciding force for the end of WW2, but remember we didn't get involved with troops and combat operations until Dec. 8, 1941. The War began in September of 1939. We'd vocally supported the Allies, condemned Hitler, sent much money and equipment before 12/9/41, but many felt the US was delinquent in their full involvement. I really wonder if Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor, what the US role would've been?



When is the jury going to come in? By almost any measure, Dave, the US is hardly doing the "heavy lifting" on this issue. We produce more pollutants than almost any other Country in the world and have been extremely remiss in showing any meaningful global cooperation. One of a very few (and undesirable list of) countries that refused to sign the Kyoto protocol back in the 1990's, we're taking small steps when we should be, at the very least, taking medium size ones.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On one hand, I think we're in a time of political entrenchment. The two major parties have over-heated the rhetoric to such an unhealthy and unproductive degree, its disgusting. On the other hand, the recently closed 111th Congress, did when it was all said and done with, get a lot done. The Fair Pay act, SChip for childrens health insurance, several different financial regulatory bills, hate crime legislation, the Affordable Care Act, the repeal of DADT, the START treaty, etc...Hopefully the 112th Congress, when its all said and done with, will have been as productive.



------------------
Bill in Dayton