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#89836 - 11/17/02 01:09 PM Cavatina
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Dear friends,
I have just uploaded to my site a new song: "Cavatina", from the "Deer Hunter" movie. As you remember, this song has been requested by our friend Jedi, to whom is of course dedicated. The song was recorded entirely with the 9000 pro, without any style; in fact, I have tried to preserve the original atmosphere.
Warning: if you don't like the acoustic guitar, this song is not for you!
Enjoy!

http://andrearotolo.tripod.com/dreamer/id1.html
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#89837 - 11/17/02 02:16 PM Re: Cavatina
Lou Y Offline
Member

Registered: 10/12/02
Posts: 198
Loc: NY USA
Andrea, I'm very impressed. You've managed to capture all the emotion this tune has. And yes less is more, no percussion was the deal. The guitar voice and the Gothic Choir were placed beautifully. I wish that I could play like that.... Lou
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Lou

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#89838 - 11/17/02 02:25 PM Re: Cavatina
Anonymous
Unregistered


I liked it! But I missed the note bending in my favorite recording of the song (The Shadows version). A memorable song from one of the greatest movies I've ever seen with the great Meryl Streep (among others, but I only have eyes for her you know... :-) ).

-- José.

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#89839 - 11/17/02 03:32 PM Re: Cavatina
ReneT Offline
Member

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 101
Loc: NL
Hello Andrea,
You did a marvelous job!
It's nice to hear somebody actually playing music instead of playing an arranger.
I'm sorry for not sending congratulations at your birthday last week.
Anyway the difference is very small, I'm born at the 7th of November
Ciao

Rene

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#89840 - 11/17/02 03:53 PM Re: Cavatina
jedi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1125
Loc: Merrimack, N.H.
Hi Andrea,
What can I say !! Thank you very...much for the song and the dedication. Cavatina has always had a special place in my heart because to me it is a songs that carries so much emotion and to me it will stand as one of the great songs of the of the late seventy`s and really captures feelings that no one should ever forget.
Thank you again and God bless you and your music.
Gary "jedi"
PS: And you did a very fine job !! John Williams would be very proud !

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#89841 - 11/17/02 07:11 PM Re: Cavatina
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi Andrea: I assume you recorded each track separately (adding tracks as you go) right? Did you loop record any of the backup tracks? Though I admire that you recorded it without any auto accompaniment style, the background guitar arpeggios & string backup lend themselves to be created as an auto accompaniment pattern (custom style) which would allow you to perform this tune in auto accompaniment mode. Very Nice rendition. - Scott
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#89842 - 11/17/02 09:16 PM Re: Cavatina
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Andrea,

Bravo!!! Nice Inspiring rendition. It was so refreshimg to hear a song without the arranger accmp. The 9kpro Guitars are splendid also. At first I thought I was hearing the Movie Theme from "FOREST GUMP" the melody is very similar. Thanx for sharing my friend

Ciao

Dnj

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#89843 - 11/17/02 11:51 PM Re: Cavatina
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
Dear friends,
thank you for your words.
JJ and Lou, thank you a lot. You are always so kind.
José, so you miss the note bending, uh? Okay, here is the deal: I will record a Jobim tune with an electric guitar and LOTS of pitch bending, so you will be happy.... (just kidding, of course, I can't do that to Jobim...and I guess that Chico would never address me again... )
René, it's a pleasure to hear from you; another Scorpio, uh? Next year we will celebrate together on the Forum.
Jedi, I am afraid that John Williams wouldn't be proud of me at all...but thank you the same I am glad that you liked it.
Scott, yes I did record the song from scratch, track after track. To add realism, instead of playing chords I played each string line separately, just like a real string section would have done. To record the song I analyzed with my sequencer an excellent midifile I found on the web, trying to reproduce all the tracks more or less faithfully. Frankly I don't think that such a style would be useful: the strings are too easily recognizable and associated with this song. However, the 9000 pro has a style called "Guitar ballad", which is very similar, but more simplified (even the guitar arpeggio is too simple).
Donny, thank you; I am still waiting for my SD1 to record Wave again. I agree that the 9000 has wonderful acoustic guitars.
Andrea
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#89844 - 11/18/02 07:47 AM Re: Cavatina
Anonymous
Unregistered


Andrea, could you please tell us the equipment that you are using in your multi-track recordings? Thanks,

-- José.

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#89845 - 11/18/02 08:08 AM Re: Cavatina
trtjazz Offline
Member

Registered: 08/01/02
Posts: 2683
Andrea,
If you're as good a Doc as you are a musician, you must have alot of happy, healthy and satisfied patients. Great job on this tune.

If I were to perhaps point out one thing.....I thought the strings needed to come up a bit in the mix. The guitar is crystal clear but the strings I had to kind of strain to hear to do their job in the mix.

Overall excellent piece.
jam on,
Terry
_________________________
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

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#89846 - 11/18/02 10:37 AM Re: Cavatina
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
José, the song was recorded entirely with the 9000 pro; I used the Live Nylon - two tracks playing the lead guitar one octave apart, plus one rhytm track (arpeggio); then a chorus/string patch and another string patch with two layered sounds (Arco strings and another one; I don't remember the names but I can check later when I come back home).
The output signal went through a Roland analog mixer to my TC electronics MOneXL DSP (I didn't use any outboard effects, but the MOneXL allows me to connect the digital output to the digital input of my Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum. The software is Cool Edit Pro.
The main problem with this setup (soundcard based) is the electrostatic noise, which is non predictable. Yesterday there was a lot of wind and rain and I had to redo many tracks due to unbearable electrostatic noise. For this reason I am about to upgrade to a system based on a digital mixer with hard disk recorder. It will take a bit to get accustomed, but I hope that the quality of my recordings will improve substantially. Too bad the musician will be the same... :-(

Terry, you are really too kind. I check my mix through headphones and the strings seemed fine, but maybe it's time I start to listen through speakers, to understand how the song will sound to other listeners.
I wish I could treat my patients with music...
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#89847 - 11/18/02 12:53 PM Re: Cavatina
Anonymous
Unregistered


Andrea:

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I understand that the multi-tracking is all done with software only. All my attempts in recording songs were done playing everything live. That obviously limits a lot the arrangement complexity and sophistication. I begin to realize that with multi-tracking, interesting results can be obtained if we are patient to capture all the voices present in an orchestration. At least your recent recordings sound much more professional and the musician is the same (good one!)

-- José.

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#89848 - 11/18/02 01:22 PM Re: Cavatina
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
José,
my recent registrations sound more professional because I went back to school. There is a lot around to learn, if you have the time and the patience and a good midifile can be an excellent learning tool. Before recording songs like Sweet Home Chicago and Route 66 I spent hours listening to midifiles recorded by professional musicians, trying to play exactly the same notes. This goes for the solo's, the chords and the overall arrangements. Even listening to the Cavatina midifile, I was amazed to hear how the strings were beautifully orchestrated.
With a program like Power Tracks you can display the notes played on a small keyboard in the higher part of the screen. If you slow the tempo down, you can see even the slightest nuances played and actually learn a lot.
When I was a teenager I used to do the same listening to my guitar heroes (Hank Marvin, Eric Clapton, Carlos Santana and later guys like Charlie Christian, Django Reinhardt and Joe Pass). At that time all I had was a gramophone and my ear; since the records were 33 rmp there was no way to slow them down to better understand a solo. Besides, slowing down the record had also an effect on the overall pitch.
Today, with midifiles and sequencers, it's all so much easier.
So, if my recent registrations sound more professional, it's not my credit: I am simply copying what much better musicians do.
For those who can understand german, there is an excellent site; for 15 euros they sell you a midifile and also the relative style. First you study the midifile and then you have at your disposal the right style to play your song. I can really advice these styles to anyone; besides, they have styles for all the current arrangers (Roland, Ketron, Yamaha -even a few for the Tyros).
The address is:
http://www.styles-music.de/
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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#89849 - 11/18/02 04:24 PM Re: Cavatina
Anonymous
Unregistered


I understood that you were using midi file as the inspiration of you arrangements. You certainly deserve a lot of credits for the work of patience in analyzing and studying the several tracks of a song. Although it might seem to be a basic and/or not so creative exercise, I believe it is a great learning tool, useful in understanding how an arrangement is done. It's probably a good start to have our own ideas of orchestrations. Thanks for the site!

-- José.

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#89850 - 11/18/02 10:09 PM Re: Cavatina
Dreamer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 3849
Loc: Rome - Italy
José,
you are right; of course I didn't always use midifiles as a starting point. For example, to record Wave I did use an arrangement found in a magazine named "European Musician" (now discontinued); there was a guy who proposed to play this song with different voicings; I really liked them and so have spent hours trying to learn them. On the other hand all the rest (guitar solo included) is my own stuff.
The same goes for Malafemmena: I don't know if -unconsciously- I took inspiration from someone, but things went very simply: I began to record the song with the rhytm track, then started playing a jazz guitar sound and I found myself playing those jazzy chords without even knowing. When I did listen to the registration I was amazed to hear how good it sounded.
On the other hand, even if you go inside a museum, you will find painters trying to copy all those masterpieces hung on the walls. Once you've learned the technique, you are ready to start your own (hopefully creative) artistic work.
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61 and PA3X-Pro76, Roland G-70, BK7-m and Integra 7, Casio PX-5S, Fender Stratocaster with Fralin pickups, Fender Stratocaster with Kinman pickups, vintage Gibson SG standard.

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