I hope this is taken in the spirit in which it was written. After playing with this new keyboard for @ 24 hrs now, I have to honestly say that I am grossly UNDERwhelmed. Like most of you, I did not have an opportunity to try this board before purchasing. To those of you who said they would never make a purchase of this size without trying it out first, I say, AMEN. In all fairness, those of you coming from a Yamaha Arranger background (and were happy with the product) will probably like it and see it as an improvement over previous products. Those that come from a G1000 (like me) or Korg background probably will not. Since the responses to the T2 have so far been overwhelmingly positive, it could just be me. Nevertheless, these are my first impressions.
1. Looks far more like a $500 Casio than a serious pro-quality $3000+ keyboard.
2. Despite what others say, 61 keys is not enough (especially for a keyboard capable of 3 zones).
3. I should have guessed this since I own both a Motif ES and a Korg Triton, but IN MY OPINION, the quality of the voices is inferior (and much less playable) than the Korg and in some cases even the Roland. On the playability issue, it seems to be the dynamics (voices) and responsiveness (keyboard). They ARE similar to the Motif if you happen to like that board.
4. Styles....ah, again very subjective. Let's just say that I expected much better. This of course, will depend on the type (I've come to hate the word "genre'" because of it's overuse) of music you play. I think some of the original styles of the G1000 (from however many years ago) were much better and more usable. So far, I've found maybe 5-6 that I would use outside the studio and none that I would use for straight-ahead jazz.
5. Distortion at settings above 2 o'clock, even going into a digital mixer with 56 bit headroom. This is not a problem if you are going into a powerful system but none of my other boards exhibits this problem.
6. Very uneven volume-matching on the right-hand voices in the factory style settings. Plus, usually only one of the four choices seems appropriate for the style. Just a pain to have to tweak every single factory style to make them usuable.

I'm hoping this thing will grow on me but at the moment, I am really starting to wish that I had gone with the PA1x Pro. I haven't heard that board either but I did hear a PA80 in a local Sam Ash and I have to honestly say that I liked the overall sound of even that board better. If I had to go out on a gig today with one board, it would definitely be the G1000 even though it doesn't have nearly the "bells and whistles" of the T2. Of course there are some positives as well, it's just that after all the rave reviews, I expected something more professional. If I hadn't already spent over $600 on hard drive, 1 gig memory, and a custom gig bag, I would be seriously trying to negotiate with DanO for a PA1x Pro trade (I may do this anyway...hope you're listening, Dan). My advice (which I'm about to ignore once again), TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. Of course this is all based on 24hrs of ownership but not much of what I mentioned above is going to change. Again, let me reiterate, THIS IS JUST MY OPINION. Anyway, let the Flaming begin.

chas

BTW, I've been a professional musician my entire adult life and have owned probably as many as 30 different synthesizers. My primary instruments are (and always will be) acoustic piano and Hammond organ. I can, and will, play anything but my preference is small format modern jazz (think Miles, Bill Evans, etc.). I also love "fatback" organ trio ala. Jimmy Smith, etc.

cgiles....

Thanx for the T2 review......very honest and informative....nothing wrong with that....Im not surprised at most of your comments at all regarding the T2....I myself thought long and hard about purchasing the T2 but in the end although I played a Yamaha last two yrs went a different direction with the Midjay & Im so glad I did. I always stressed that these KB's are a very personal decision & playing them in advance with your sound system is a MUST before you buy. What other people say means nothing to me because I have to play it & like it for ALL "MY" NEEDS before I decide to use one on stage. People mean well but their opinions somtimes have to be taken with a grain of salt, because they dont Hear what I hear, or play the way I play or navigate a kb the same way. I wish you luck in your journey to be happy............
Have you considered the SD-1 also besides the PAX1, G70?

Good Luck

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 12-03-2005).]

Hmm, that's a very interesting review.
It is honest and that's what makes me look at T2 from a different perspective.

I have ordered the T2 very long time ago from DanO, haven't received it yet, but I'm having second thoughts now. I am actually thinking of cancelling the order. With the PA1X Pro I can do everything and more that I have ever imagined. Nothing comes close from all the Yammies I have owned so far.
I'm also in favor of 76 keys, no more do I want to consider a 61 key workstation and/or arranger.
Dan if you're reading this I may call you and consider the option of cancelling.
I might also consider taking the Korg Triton Extreme Seventy Sixer instead, but I have to find out about the key action. I don't want to have anything different than the action PA1X Pro gives me.

For some reason after owning the Korg...
I've lost interest in plastic pro wanna be Yamahas, don't get me wrong, Yamahas are great keyboards, but in the shadows of others... they just seem like very expensive plastic toys...

cheers,

ccdmax

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Yamaha PSR9000, PSR730, Korg PA1X Pro, Karma, X5D, Yamaha Tyros2 on it's way

Thank all of you for your very honest and
unbiased review of the T-2 Chas, with your knowledge and years of playing your background speaks for itself sorry you had to find out after buying, on the other hand, the T-2 is my dream board for now .....Dan-O...if you get any trade in and want to let one go cheap, CALL ME.....
TR

Hi cgiles, Roland makes very differend instruments with a very differend sound and feel compared to Yamaha. By using the G1000 you have become used to the sounds and styles it has and the entire admosphere of a Roland instrument. I've had for a few months a Yamaha 9000 Pro and a Roland VA7 and the difference was enormous. These instruments had almost nothing in common. I couldn't get used to the VA7, it's sounds (which all have a Roland feel to it) and styles (could also use maybe 10 styles max of the vast collection) and sold it when I needed a bit of cache. I never looked back and I am very happy with the Tyros2 (and before the PSR-9000, 9000 Pro, PSR-2100 and PSR-3000).

Luckely this is a big world with differend people with differend tastes. That makes it an interesting place. Take a deep breath, sell the Tyros2 and buy a G70 or another instrument which you prefer.

Bert.

Cgiles,
I am not going to question your evaluation, because -as you say- it's all subjective and what's good for one can be just wrong for another. One thing, however, stands out as just plain wrong to me and makes me think that you need to reconsider your opinion, maybe after a night of sleep. When you say that you hear distortion with the volume knob above 2 o'clock, there is definitely something wrong.
I own a Tyros 2 since the end of October and I have never had this kind of problem, so I strongly suggest that you check your setup.

I have a G1000, Ketron SD1, Korg Triton and Yamaha Tyros 2, not forgetting other PC based keyboard/synth plugins.
The Tyros 2 is far better than any of my other 76 note arranger keyboards and the lack of 76 notes doesn't cause me any problems, you simply adjust your playing style. All of the styles are easy to use and the sounds are excellent. Experiment with the EQ settings inside the keyboard as the EQ changes can have some serious impact. Obviously the Triton can't be compared to the Tyros 2 as that is a totally different instrument. Arrangers and Workstations (call them what you like) can't be compared in my opinion as they cater for different people/markets.
I have no distortion problems at all when connected to my automated mixing desk and even if I link it straight into my PC's sound card it still sounds crystal clear.
Once you've got the levels as you like you'll soon change your mind about the Tyros 2.

cgiles,

I had very similar experiences when I first bought my Tyros1 - I came from a Ketron and just couldn't get used to the different sounds, styles and looks.

But like you - I bought unseen after listening to Yamahas site demo's and rave reviews on this and other BBS.

I probably wouldn't have bought it if I had tried it first but as time wore on I found that there were indeed more and more things that I liked about it.

I kept my Ketron module and gigged with both but recently have just sold the Ketron and am now gigging out with just the T1 so I agree with the others that it is really more of what sounds you are used to at first.

However, If you have had it a fair while and still don't like it then cut your losses and change it for something you do - life's too short

You will get used to 61 keys - I came from a piano playing background and like many others would like 76 but you quickly get used to it and the touch. I sometimes play the T1 using a fully weighted 88 note controller at home and it is like playing a different instrument - I love it and could swear it even improves the sound (lol)

I still hate the plastic toylike looks though.

Funnily enough - I bought the Ketron XD9 unseen but loved everything about it from the word go (soundwise that is)

KF

[This message has been edited by KFingers (edited 12-03-2005).]

Chas,

I too had an opportunity to play Tyros 2 this week at a store for the first time, and also the pleasure of meeting Manuel Dorantes again.

I must say, that when I played the T2, my reaction was similar to yours - I was pretty underwhelmed. It's not that the T2 sounds bad - the sounds are all OK. But the feeling I have had playing Tyros was as if being in the acoustically insulated clean room, where you can hear every dust particle fall and make noise. On the other hand, I too play the G1000, and it sounds more like in a live concert on a big stage - big sound, and it does not seem to matter if the instruments do not sound as pristinely clean - they just come together during play.

I must say, however, that when Manuel demonstrated to me the proper technique of playing the SA voices (e.g. SA guitars), they sounded extremely realistic - I can see how someone would love the playing, say, solo guitar (I think the advantage becomes lesss apparent when the accompaniments are playing along), though it does require mastering a proper technique for playing. I hardly ever play solo guitar in any of my music, since I come from the background of clarinet/sax. To my ear, the tenor sax of the G1000 is great, and the SA tenor voice of T2 is not better, though I did not compare the two side by side.

I also felt constrained by the lack of 76 kets, although, I am confident that depends on the style of your play. I am sure some people, even while having the 76 key instruments, play them in a way that is easily adaptable to 61 keys, while others, like myself will feel like they are missing a few fingers. I was also thrown off by the way Tyros' keys protrude above the plastic of the case at the ends of the keyboard (so my pinkies just fell off the keys). I am not a professional keyboard player, and Manuel's keyboard technique puts me to shame, but after playing the G1000's keys, it is hard to switch to anything else.

I must say, though, that T2 is extremely easy to navigate. Even after using my G1000 for 8 years, I still find it a bit difficult to get around, especially while playing live. Also, the multi-pads are a neat option, which would be nice to have on the G1000. I also like having the bells and whistles of T2, such as vocal harmonizer, digital recorder, etc.

I think that liking T2 (or any other keyboard) is a very subjective thing, and depends very much on your style of playing and the music you play. It is good that we have a choice of several high end options. I think that as long as my G1000 is working, I will stick with it, since none of the newer boards provide enough justification for shelling out the extra $$$, but if/when it passes on, I would settle for the 76-key version of the T2, if it is available then.

Regards,
Alex

Whichever board you start with tends to stay with you for around 3 or 4 years,in that period of time you have gotten used to the way it sounds, plays and this is how your opinion is judged,now if a newer version comes out, a lot of the old stays with the new, similar sounds or voices operating or whatever, so what you buy has some similarities,now when you crossover to a different manufacturer ,everything is NEW ,sometimes better sometimes not depending what you had before. So i agree that people tend to say great things about the improvements they have noticed,maybe they should say what the last board they had before , bear one thing in mind, the top 4/5 manufacturers are different, all good , but still different, and unless some one crosses over and says great things about a new board then you certainly listen to what has been said,but still try before you buy,mike

Just an update...
I've done it and cancelled my order for Tyros2

I came out of the closet and faced the truth... I'M A KORG GUY! ...

(you can read more about it here: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum39/HTML/000064.html )

DanO, thank you for being my #1 dealer and if you guys need any keys, Dan's the Man
I will never do any business with anybody else. DanO you've got yourself a customer for life..

cheers,

ccdmax

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Korg PA1X Pro, Karma, X5D, Yamaha PSR9000, PSR730

Hi Chas -
I have played the Tyros2 extensively at SA locally, trying to be objective and open to all it offers. But I must say that I am a fan of Roland sounds and styles and everytime I stray, I end up going back (to Roland). I don't care about the bells and whistles and where else can you get Variphrase incredible human voices. I'm super happy I just purchased a used VA76 from DanO
zuki

I'm not touching this topic...besides everyone already knows what my comments would be!!!

Fran....you forgot the smiley face?

"3. I should have guessed this since I own both a Motif ES and a Korg Triton, but IN MY OPINION, the quality of the voices is inferior (and much less playable) than the Korg and in some cases even the Roland. On the playability issue, it seems to be the dynamics (voices) and responsiveness (keyboard). They ARE similar to the Motif if you happen to like that board."

In my opinion the above statement shoots down the credibility of your entire review. I have both of these boards. They are VASTLY different sounding. Neither one is better than the other, they just plain sound different and as such your personal taste really is the only criteria for selecting these boards. It's the same with the T2, I thought the G70 voices were not very good, and PAX1PRO were not very realistic. It's all personal taste and folks looking at any of these boards need to decide for themselves which type of sound is best for the music they play.

Hi Ccdmax,

You would be very happy with the Korg Triton Extreme 76 key to go with your Korg Pa1Xpro.

Korg is having a special deal. If you buy the Triton Extreme, you will get their Legacy Collection FREE!

The program/combis on the Triton Extreme are excellent and will blend in perfectly with the Pa1Xpro. The key feel on the Triton Extreme 76 is very good. However, it is different from the Pa1Xpro which feels stiffer and heavier in comparison. The Triton Extreme synth action is ideal for fast and effortless playing.

Tapas

First of all, great to hear both sides of the coin! However I am a little mystified by your comments. You mentioned that you didnt have chance to play or see the T2 in the flesh before purchasing, but I would have thought that despite not actually playing the keyboard you would have realised that it had 5 octaves and looked as it does?
As for the sounds, well of course that's subjective but having listened to the PA1X demo CD from Korg, I have to strongly disagree.
Distortion is an interesting point though, as I feel there is a slight fuzziness from the TRS-MS02's in the lower mid range.. but that wouldn't affect the line outs. I've played the T2 into a top class hifi system without any problems of distortion, perhaps there is a serious mismatch with your mixer?
Styles? There is so much said about Yamaha styles, demos and mp3s by the bucketful. I am surprised you jumped in and spend this amount of money without ever listening to a demo or mp3, or maybe I am wrong? It seems you've never heard a Yamaha instrument before?
The factory level settings are just that, and of course everyone will want to set up the instrument as they prefer. There is more than enough flexibility in the T2 to achieve this and retain it in registrations.

Of course this is all my own opinions, for which I personally enjoy and love Yamaha's arranger keyboards. That's not to say I dont like other boards, I still think Korg and Roland offer some great warm and fat synthy sounds but I personally find Yamaha has the edge on orchestral voices.

Simon


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__________________________________________________________
SVPworld.com - Creative Multimedia & Music
incorporating PSRworld and Tyrosworld

forum.svpworld.com - No adverts, No spam, No nonsense!
share your music, get help and advice, make new friends! All platforms invited!!

I was hoping that my post would not be perceived as a Tyros2 bashing. I have no reason to do that, as no one wants to have to 'fess up to a costly mistake. Most people will usually try to defend an expensive purchase even if it defies logic (remember buying that convertible 2 seater at age 60 while living in nothern Maine......but Honey...). My objective was merely to present my "first impression" response to this board. I wasn't looking for "credibility" and liberally sprinkled my comments with "IN MY OPINION". To Ccdmax I would say, I'm sorry if my post influenced you to cancel your order in the face of so many positive posts about the T2. It very well may have been a good fit for you. To DREAMER I would say, Thank You, for making me take another look at my cable connections. As it turned out, you were correct and one of my cables did have a bad connection (spanking brand new cables too, darn). After correcting this, the sound did improve considerably (volume up, distortion gone, clarity improved). I think the moral here is, never get so defensive that you discount the value of what a desenter has to say. For the time being, because of my investment in peripheral gear for this board, AND because I don't feel that I have learned it well enough to give it a completely fair shake, I'm going to hold onto it for awhile longer. BTW, just changing the split-point to accomodate your style of playing helps alot with the 61key limitation. Since I bought it primarily as a studio "scratch pad" for composing and arranging, with more styles I may actually come to find it useful. I AM NOT AN EQUIPMENT BASHER (nor did I have sex with that woman).

chas

Simon, I guess we cross posted. Of course I heard the MP3's and factory demos. That's why I bought it. As for it's looks, it's seems a little out of place in the company of other high-end synths. Again, just my opinion.

Peace,

chas

Cgiles-

Thanks for sharing your honest opinions and experiences with the T2. Everyone's tastes are very personal, and that's the way it should be.

No arranger ( or workstation ) is going to completely cut it for me in the studio, but right now I'm looking strictly for a live performance board.

I still think I'll probably go with the T2. I'm not a huge fan of the overall Roland soundset, ( it's fine, just not my taste ) as it exists on the Fantom series, so there is no reason for me to believe I'd like the G70's any better.

I have a PA80. Love the styles, and the synth patches, organs, and strings. I don't like so many of the other acoustic instruments vs what's on my Motif ES. I can't find a PA1x to try out close to me, so I'll never know if there is mcuh improvement without taking a long trip somewhere.

I would think the T2 has a similar soundset to the Motif ES. I can live with that. I like the overall acoustic instrument soundset, but think Yamaha is weak for my tastes in synth patches. Still, with the laptop that accompanies me and all of the quality softsynths I have on it, this won't be a problem at all.

AJ

Hi Cgiles,

I'd be curious to hear your opinion again in another two weeks. Please start a new thread if you change your mind!

Chony

Cgiles,
Thank you for your frank appraisal. I hope that the responses you receive will not assuage others from making the same straightforward evaluations of other brand name boards, which should include discovered benefits as well as the short comings of the various instruments. The folks who make a living making music should especially welcome educated, upfront appraisals. One would hope however, that if a deficiency (other than personal preferences) is discovered in a particular board, a suggested remedy could be offered and/or collectively arrived at, since some of us already made some significant $ outlays.
Ciao,
Jerry

cgiles...
Your post has not influenced my decision in any way. I have been thinking about cancelling my order for weeks now. The main reason I did this is, I do mostly studio work now. PA1X Pro gives me the studio quality sounds I've been looking for (I know I know... but to me it sounds way better than any yammie I have ever owned). The styles I'm using for my recordings are not straight out of the list. I do customize the heck out of them and I use custom styles. The Korg gave me more than I have ever expected from an arranger and that's how it all started. I have heard all the mp3's and yes the Tyros2 does have better acoustic sounds... but they sound live... that's not what I'm after. I do record a lot of vocals for my clients, so you can't tell the sounds apart anyway. Second of all since the Korg gives me everything and more... do I really want to spend so much money on a keyboard that I don't see using more than 10% of the time?
(I did get a chance to play PSR3000 and Tyros1 and I don't see the Tyros2 being sooo much better than the first one)

So I've decided to stick with my PA1X Pro, ditch all the yammies, sell my Karma, X5d and go for a nice workstation with a decent sampler.

cheers,

ccdmax

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Korg PA1X Pro, Karma, X5D, Yamaha PSR9000, PSR730

Chas - Here's an idea. A forum contributor has listed her G70. Maybe the T2 would be a good exchange (just an idea)

zuki

http://cgi.ebay.com/ROLAND-G70-ARRANGER-...1QQcmdZViewItem

As the player of a technics kn6000, I will very likely have to change direction in the next year or so ...In my mind, I had started to lean towards the Ty2, but not having heard it, and thinking there could be a Ty3 by the time I look for something new, of course my mind is open ... in fact, a year or so ago I met DanO at his shop and I believe he played an SD1 that sounded incredible ...
All that aside, I find it interesting that many Ty1 and Ty2 players talk about "tweaking' the sounds, especially the piano ... I assume you are all 'teaking' differently, so that it sounds good to YOUR ears ? ... and if so, do you know if it sounds good to another Ty player who might have 'tweaked' his/hers differently ... BUT, if you are all 'tweaking' pretty much the same, then why didn't Yamaha do the 'tweaking' before the KBs left the factory ?!?!? ...
t.

Hi, I'm new to the forum so this is my first post!
I'm interested in this Tyros2 argument, it was not so long ago i was entangled in a 3-way argument about the two boards (PA1X and T2) In the local music shop.
To me the T2 has a SLIGHT upper hand over the PA1X in terms of voices, have you heard the Grand Piano voice of both side by side? - the Tyros is better- more body in the notes and upper octave, this is reflected through some of the other voices too. To me the Korg sounds to synthetic and muffled almost like a recorded voice rather than a voice in the room with you. It is a personal preference yes but i really don't think the T2 is a bad keyboard, true the case is awful and the styling needs work.
But to me everything about the korg when i was there with it screamed out synthetic and digital - Yamaha sounded more "in the room" and detailed.
Even comparing the online demos now as I sit here the Tyros just sounds more acoustic and alive - i don't know where they got the Korg ones from but they sound synth like and monotoned.

I think the tyros2 is built with quality material and does not look like a cheap toy. I also think it is the benchmark by which all others must be judged...and thats me!

tyros needs 76 keys

I have to agree with you Chas, after owning my T2 for a week now I'm beginning to feel that but for a few new features, sounds and styles the T2 does not really live up to my expections and I feel my PSR3000 still sounds great on stage and in some respects it betters the T2, I much prefer the compact and bright display on the PSR3000 and I definitely prefer the 3000's control layout.

I always use two keyboards onstage as the two independent instruments facilitate easier soloing access and a better live sound mixing two separate sound sources, so its not a matter of reducing to just using the T2 onstage, also the tilting T2 screen is to far back to be easily readable under the top keyboard.

Over the last 10 years I have owned a Yamaha PSR630,PSR730, PSR740, PSR2000, PSR3000 and this is the first time I've felt so much disappointment with a Yamaha instrument. I suppose that with each new instrument my expectations have been satisfied but the overall difference this time makes me wonder whether the high outlay for just a few more 'Bells & Whistles' is justified when to the untrained ear (my audience) the difference is practically unnoticable so my T2 will soon be on Ebay.

Many applogies to the new happy owners of the T2 but we each have our own way's of utilising our instruments, for me I prefer to concentrate more on the playing aspect rather than the..'10 minure wonder'.. gimminks…it just does'nt fit the bill for me…sorry.

Rgds

Noel Jay
http://website.lineone.net/~davegladding/threes_company.htm

Pasadoble: Have you tried altering the EQ settings? After I changed the EQ settings into a "smile" the T2 is so very much better than the PSR-3000. The default flat settings are not doing justice to this fine instrument.