Hers a T2 acoustic nylon guitar SA demo I saw on Tyros 2 forum
http://rapidshare.de/files/22226811/flibustfugueT2.mp3.html

a well known Maxime Leforestier's song played with tyros2 (guitare serenade mainA and ots1)..
doesn't it sound like a real guitar?
http://www.yamahapkowner.com/forum/index.php/board,66.0.html




[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-08-2006).]

Thanks for sharing this file. Great example of an acoustic sound from the T2.

Incredible Realizm

On my G1000 the nylon string guitar does not have the fret/string noise...just like a real nylon string guitar..

Great observation...... I never heard that until I relistened to the NYLON GUITAR post.....I'll also try it on my T2....

Huh? OF course they have fret and string noise, I play a "real" one and it does.

Terry


------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Terry, I didn't know a nylon string[non abrasive] could create fret noise..and besides that ..I didn't realize you can get fret noise from steel strings above the third octave...I hear both on a Tyros2..

Please play a "real" nylon string guitar and demonstrate this for me..thanks

Donny (DNJ)
Sorry, I couldnt find out how to download your demo. Rapidshare requires that I register to their site (something I would'n want to do for reasons).

Is it possible to upload the demo on yousendit.com?

Thanx
George

george on rapid share you have to click on the FREE Tab> wait for the countdown to finish> then enter the three Letter CODE ......then look for the download tab ........no need to register at all.....

Terry usually the wound steel strings create fret noise I thought....I wasn't aware of fret noise on NYLON strings due to their smoothness which is non abrasive? maybe its a skin screech or something? ....is it possible for you to record a song or short clip demo to show me?
thanks



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-08-2006).]

I'm a guitarist as well, and I've played nylon on many occasions. The answer is "YES" you will get these noises. Granted the strings aren't as abrasive, but you will hear these noises on the nylon guitar. They're just not as "obvious" or noticable as you'd find on a standard steel string guitar. If I had a nylon I'd record it. Does anyone else here have one to demostrate.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-08-2006).]

The higher the tension strings on the nylon the more noise one gets much the same though not as pronounced as steel string of course.

Now lets make sure we are on the same definitions page please define what you are calling "fret noise".

To me it is the sound of the strings pushed against the frets and or plucked and one would hear a very faint tap/click sound.

The second would be fingers sliding on the strings and they get a more scratchie sound.

Third is finger slide which produces more of the squeak sound that is common. This one can be avoided or minimized by actually picking ones hand up to move to the next chord, instead of sliding it.

Something else to keep in mind, though I am not totally sure how the voices are constructed, my understanding is that they are recorded voices of one playing the instrument, so in this case if that is true on the Tyros, though it may be embellished, we would be hearing what the recording picked up wouldn't we?

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

It's the same way on the acoustic guitar as well. If I'm playing something that requires quick chord changes and I don't want a heavy fret noise I reduce the amount of slide to the next chord, by simply lifting my hand. It's the same principle on the nylon guitar. I think Yamaha added this noise just to give this sound more flavor.

We guitarists each have our own different and unique playing styles. By playing the actual instrument we can control the amount of fret noise produced from chord changes. Now if you can reduce the amount of fret noise when switching chords on the T2, then that's impressive.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-08-2006).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-08-2006).]

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-08-2006).]

Here is a demo of a real Spanish Guitar with nylon strings that was midi'ed and recorded to a computer. The lead part was recorded separate from the rhythm part. I took the midi file and loaded it into my Tyros"1" and used the XG Nylon Guitar patch for the lead part and the XG Nylon Guitar3 for the rhythm part and used them as the sound vehicle and then recorded the song to my computer's Sony Sound Forge 7.0b converting the .wav file to .mp3 which is right here: Spanish Guitar Note: I didn't use the Tyros' Live! Nylon and/or Live! Classical guitar patches because of the hammer on/dead note effect on the Live! Nylon patch and for some reason the Live! Classical patch exhibited some undesirable effects also on this song. Hence I used the XG Nylon and Nylon3 patches. But at least you will get the idea of fret sounds in conjunction with Nylon strings.

As you can tell a 'real' Nylon string guitar does in fact produce fret noises although as has been stated not to the degree that steel strings do.

Enjoy!

Best regards,
Mike

Mike
What a beautiful demo. Is that you playing? IF so I'm damned impressed.

jam on,
Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Ok folks, for COMPARISON, here are some audio clips of an actual (real) acoustic nylon guitar being played:

[img]http://art.towerrecords.com/coverart.asp?S=3252077&X=178&Y=178[/img]
At The Rio Jazz Club, by Baden Powell

Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 06-08-2006).]

I recorded these on Roland's Super Quartet.

Sound 2 is a Nylon guitar.
Sound 3 is Flamenco guitar.
Sound 4 is a Steele guitar.
They are about 35 second clips.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=819A6F245B65A65D
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=7CEA896801412668
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=23B526C8608E6332

Mike,
is that a keyboard? I can't believe!

And yes, nylon strings can produce fret noise. Fret noise was the reason I gave up playing guitar a long time ago.

George

WOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!! Simply Stunning!!!

Excellent!!

The funny thing about this whole guitar scenario is that back in the 60's when I was in a band with guitars, we found the string noise objectionable and the guitar players switched from round wound strings to flat wound strings which certainly is a prettier sound rather than listening to all that scratching as the guitarist slid their hands over the strings. Now they go to great lengths to put in the stuff we tried to take out. Just a humorous obsevation.

But yes, the guitars are incredibly realistic on the Tyros 2, no question about it.

Scott

Scott great example. with this guys playing style one can definately hear all the nuance sounds here. Fret, squeak, slide noises, He does them all and fairly pronounced.

TErry

------------------
jam on,
Terry
http://www.artisans-world.com/

Yep, it was the same thing with Hammonds and key click, remember? That was supposed to be a fault originally, but it became THE hammond sound, and now no self-respecting keyboard would be without some key click on its Hammond emulation. It's a funny old world.

Ralfaro, No that is Roland's soft synth "Super Quartet"..
It is piano, bass, guitar and drums [66 megs].
It is a VST or DXi software, like my Roland Hyper Canvas..
The sounds are as good as anything I have heard..

Took me a few days to put together a demo with my classical guitar as requested, but here it is. The tune is called Madre de Dios.

No interest in the asked for demo, so I've deleted it.

Terry

------------------
jam on,
Terry http://www.artisans-world.com/

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 06-10-2006).]

[This message has been edited by trtjazz (edited 06-21-2006).]

On a nylon guitar, the bottom 3 strings are not wound. THerefore, you can't get that scrape sound. But, on a lot of the tyros 2 super articulation nylon demos there is significant scraping even when playing in the higher registers. Once you start playing above middle c or there abouts, there should never be string scrape noise, because you'd have to be playing the D string on the 10th fret minimum in order to get the wound string scrape noise on a middle C. Since this is rarely done, Middle C and above would be played on the nonwound strings.

It's a Yamaha demo that was on my old PSR-630 and other Yamaha products too, I'm sure.

---------------------------------------------
FAEbGBD

On a nylon guitar, the bottom 3 strings are not wound. THerefore, you can't get that scrape sound. But, on a lot of the tyros 2 super articulation nylon demos there is significant scraping even when playing in the higher registers. Once you start playing above middle c or there abouts, there should never be string scrape noise, because you'd have to be playing the D string on the 10th fret minimum in order to get the wound string scrape noise on a middle C. Since this is rarely done, Middle C and above would be played on the nonwound strings.
--------------------------------------------

This is why I posted "are we going the wrong way with sounds". They seem to be working so hard on the nuances within a sound, that in turn they're making the sound "less realistic" by doing so.

To a non guitarist who plays these voices they may say--wow sounds great! However to us that do play guitar it doesn't stike us the same way because overbearing nuances take away from the sounds realism.

Again goes back to my post about are the makers in turn giving a false impression of what the instrument is supposed to sound like, and are they in turn changing the players perception of what the instrument should sound like?

I think Yamaha's on the right track with these voices. Maybe it just needs a few more years with some finer tuning. I still say they need to vary the strum and picking velocity on these voices, and not have it constant. Having the velocity vary on these nuances (I think) will produce a much more realistic effect.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 06-13-2006).]