It's not just some Hip Hop songs that may not stand the "test of time". That applies to all genres of music. There are "one hit wonders" in all styles of music. As we're all getting older whether we like it or not we're turning into our parents when it comes to music

The many styles of music today are changing. I know that my little girl will eventually laugh at what I listen to, and I'm sure I'm going to hear tunes down the road that she loves that will have me plugging my ears.

Squeak

All very good points. While some hip hop beats are less is more, there are others that require some musical know how. And at the end of the day with hip hop and any other type of music, it is the production that makes the difference. That is how do you put everything together to make it sound good and poleasing to the intended market.

Like the kids on the old Dick Clark American Bandstand used to say..."Got a nice beat...good to dance to".

In some markets, that's the primary requirement.

Chas....very good observations about timeless melodies across the spectrum. Speaks well of your in-depth knowledge of music history and major players/writers and milestones.


Also, I REALLY appreciate the reasoned approach every person who posted here took. It could easily have "gone south" .


Good work, folks!


Russ

well for my 2cents, it isn't hip-hop, and r+b today, well it isn't r+b...those who know, will know what i am saying, and thats all im saying.
dennis

Did I miss something?

Talk about standing the test of time, though.... I remember hearing very early hiphop, Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, etc. in the late 70's, early 80's, and no-one thought it would last the decade. Yet here we are, nearly thirty years later, and it's dominance continues to grow. Very few jazz styles lasted in the marketplace that long... even swing, or bigband.

It's not that I don't like some of the music, although like many I worry about the ethics behind a lot of gangsta lyrics (and why on earth ANY woman would want to shake her booty to such misogynous tunes beats me... You've come a long way, baby!), but it seems to be an un-performable music for most musicians. The beat is primary, but rarely reproducible without sampling, and the main content on the top is not a lot of music, but multi-layered vocals and rapping. Good for the singers and rappers, but it leaves the poor keyboard player with little to play other that triggering loops.

Perfect for DJ's (after all, they invented it!) but for the live musician not a whole lot of MUSICAL challenge... Lots of technical ones, but little to PLAY...

...which begs the question; what do Hiphop consumers buy the records for, the music or the lyrics? If it's the lyrics, then how important is it to "make beats"? Maybe you'd be better off pumping out rap lyrics. Seriously, which would do better in the marketplace, a great (hiphop) beat (and background) and lousy (hiphop) lyrics or the opposite? Do the two ever come together (an example, please)? I don't hate all hiphop music, just the "put your hands in the air...." type. Of course, I feel the same way about 80% of Rock and 95% of Country. But that's just personal taste on my part, it doesn't mean that there aren't some "sweet spots" in all of those genre's. It's just that I have to wade through too much s--t to get to them. There is not a single genre of music that doesn't have at least a couple of songs that I absolutely love (well maybe not schlager ), but in almost every case it's not usually representative of the genre and is classified that way because of who's performing it. As much as I might love and admire say McCoy Tyner, I also love Willie Nelson, right down to his pot-smoking, womanizing image (it's like and honesty that says, "hey, I am who I am").

I have no idea where I was going with this (old age does that ) so I'll turn it back to the HipHop experts. Diki, you there?

chas

Please.... don't label me an 'expert'!

It's just one of the styles we occasionally have to deal with at the studio, and there are others there FAR more knowledgeable than me. I just try to have a very open attitude about what I listen to, and if it makes my butt move, that's good enough for me!

The hardest thing we have to deal with as older musicians (I'm 51) is the patience to wade through the rivers of cr*p music to find the nuggets of gold. I don't believe that river is any deeper or flows any faster than it did in our youth, but our tastes weren't as finalized by then, and we just listened to everything and made our minds up afterwards. It is MUCH harder, now we have an idea about what we like and dislike, to listen as extensively (especially as now we have satellite and iPods, where you can choose what you listen to [and NOT listen to!]) as we used to.

To not get 'generation gapped' into irrelevance, you almost have to FORCE yourself to listen to general radio, warts and all. Or you NEVER get to hear the new, good stuff until it is SO mainstream, it's practically passé...