I was talking to a few people yesterday and boy they were shocked when I told them how expensive arranger keyboards can be today. This one guy had heard so many good things about the PSR-2000, and wanted one for his son.. He planned on buying it through mail order, and when I showed him the price of that keyboard he said his son needs to find a cheaper hobby.. He had such a hard time justifying that price with an arranger keyboard. I also think people don't expect to see the high price tags on arrangers as well... Again it's that old 80's stereo type on arrangers.. A PSR-2000 is considered a home keyboard (even though it's not), and it costs $1199 in catalogs, yet you can spend $100 more and get a Korg Triton LE, which is considered a pro keyboard. For $200 more than the Triton LE you can by a Korg Karma..... So my question is to Yamaha.. If you place keyboards like the PSR-2000 in the home market, why do you sell it for the price of a pro keyboard???? To those not aware of the abilities of these arrangers, to them it's just a overpriced toy. Anyways this guy was so stuck on the stereotype associated with arrangers that he refused to pay that price for what he called a home, kiddie, keyboard... He's going to buy the lad a Casio WK.

Squeak

I think there may be many answers to this question. First, mass-producing arranger keyboards for the home market and selling them in larger quantities than pro keyboards probably contributes to a lower cost per unit. Pro musos account for a small minority of the overall music market still. Second, beside being made in less quantities, pro keyboards have to be advertised heavily in pro publications/trade shows/endorsement deals etc. and require the most in R&D which drives the unit costs up. And, bands don't use arranger keyboards so even pro-level arrangers don't get the limelight that the Tritons etc do. That contributes to their misperception.

However, many pro keyboardists I talk to want to have the option of being able to do a solo gig as long as they can keep the quality of the instruments that they have become accustomed to, so I think there is a growing pro market for the cross-over arrangers such as the PSR2000, 9000 Pro, Tyros etc. There is still a minority of keyboardists who believe "arranger" denotes "toy", but that's by and large by those who haven't played an arranger lately. Likewise, I get people at my gigs who have low-grade arrangers at their homes and after hearing my 9000 Pro are motivated to step up to a pro-level instrument.

I agree with you.. People just don't realize what these top end arrangers are capable of doing. Even the lower end arrangers sound great.. I may have some dislikes about my PSR-550, but I still think there are quite a few acoustic instruments on the 550 that sound better than my old Roland XP-60, and Yamaha EX-7, and those were pro keyboards.

Squeak

HI Guys,
1100 list is a very reasonable price for an instrument of the calibre of the 2000. For years we paid 3 to 4000 for our korgs, Ensoniqs, Rolands, Peaveys, etc. The samplers were even higher. We paid more for a sound module for the rack then a new arranger costs today. The work stations had their limitations too.
Now a high end arranger can be bought for 2000 to 2500 street price, and look at the capabilites they have. This is progress. Who cares what labels are put on them. Tell the folks to just listen to the music and then put their own label on them
Bebop

A technician told me about a keyboard for
duo's. It has keys on the frontsite and on
the backsite, so two musicians can play to-
gether on one keyboard.
I think another great step forward.

Obviously, any parent that sincerely believes that paying $1,200 for a keyboard has never looked into the cost of participant sports such as fishing, golf, hunting, etc. A small outboard motor, says something in the 25-hp category, sells for about $2k these days, and I just saw a 250-HP four stroke outboard that had a suggested list price of $24,800 and that before buying the boat and rigging. I know people that spend $%1,000 on a fly rod, then spend an equal amount on the reel. How about the price of a complete set of golf clubs with titanium shafts and balanced heads--$2,200 on sale. Buy the keyboard, the kid will be enamored with it's sounds and creativity, and 9 chances out of 10, the kid won't be hanging out on the streets looking for ways to buy drugs and get into trouble. If it were my son or daughter, they would get the keyboard, and I would be more than happy to toss in a years free music lessons to go with it.

Gary

Some people would say its a very good thing that most people don't get arrangers. This way there would be LESS people out there playing them professionally if they can taking away whatever little work is left in the Live Solo Market.
Others are just cheap and don't give themselves or their children the chance to experience the magic of making music. Some people want to but can't afford it. I would suggest to parents to see if a child shows interest in playing and instrument to start slow and look into private lessons using a less expensive arranger keyboard. If after a year or so they still show a Big interest, practice on their own etc. then upgrade to a better unit and continue with a good teacher.
Kids have it hard today, there is so much stuff out there to distract them especially in the music world. Not like years ago when there wasn't any computers, DJ's, MTV,
FM Radio, and a million different venues and catagories to get lost in besides learning, commiting yourself, and really loving to play and instrument. The odds are Not in your favor in todays world to Play and instrument versus all the other easier ways to do it. Just look at any Philharmonic Orchestra, or even in Juliard Music School and what do you see?....
90% Asian Musicians. Theres a reason for this don't you think? I don't see kids with Tattoos, Piercings and a Blue Spiked Mohawk, or whatever playing a Cello, Harp, or possibly an Arranger Keyboard? Hmmmmmm?

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-24-2003).]

Gary,
I totally agree with you... I think more parent should be this way with their kids (if they can afford it of course).. I was lucky growing up because I was one of 8 kids.. All my brothers and sisters tried playing instruments and then got sick of them, so since they were laying around I started messing with them. Plus my parents bought me a beautiful C.Kurtzman Cabinet Grand, (it's just over 100 years old now), and they had it full restored on the inside.. That kids father has the money to buy a PSR-2000, but his stubbornes and lack of experience is why he's buying the Casio. His son really wants a PSR-2000 too..

Squeak

I think it is the fault of the keyboard salespeople and Manufactures that the Arranger Keyboards are thought less of than Pro instruments. There is a lot of technology that goes into making an arranger instrument. Unfortunately the arranger instrument is billed as, the one finger wonder with an intro and ending. "Look, you don't even really need to know how to play, to sound good with an arranger instrument" is what I hear from sales people and or customers. This may stem from the old organ days in the mall where a front pumper would seduce people into thinking that anyone can play in 5 mins or less. Most everyone would like to learn to play an instrument and feels that they have a song burning inside themselves waiting to be discovered and sales people and manufactures encourage this thought process.

This brings me to another problem, because for the untrained ear, some no talent can hit a couple of one finger notes and peck out a melody with the right hand, and sound to some as incredibly talented. Pros in a band feel threaten from an already shrinking market of live entertainment from DJ's, Karaoke, and Beat Mixers. So they discredit the power of the arrangers.

Although some professionals do use arranger keyboards, others just use them for writing and arranging, and use the live band when performing to keep the magic alive.

Last point and I think someone sort of hinted on this already. There are more wannabies and hobbyist than actual working musicians, so there is a reason that manufactures target this audience. When you use the name Pro keyboard to a novice, you scare them into thinking it is only for professionals, visa versa, you will never scare a professional by calling in a home keyboard if it sounds good and gets the job done and gets em a check.

What I found shocking is that many of the musicians I know who own pro synths, also own arrangers, but don't really say much about them.. I honestly think that those who are so supportive of the pro synths and downtalk the arranger really do know that these keyboards are good. I've owned quite a few pro keyboards, and I'm not afraid to say my PSR-550 has quite a few acoustic sounds that are better. It's like someone said before, it's only an arranger when you press the auto accomp button. With that off you have a regular keyboard. I guess others think arrangers are in a way "cheating" when it comes to writing music, but here's the flip side to that one.. Synths do the same damn thing... They're getting better at it too.. Synths like the Motif and Triton have preset patterns (not styles but patterns)... Plus anyone ever play with the arpeggios on those things...????? You can't play a funky bass line, well choose the correct arpeggio, and play a note or two, and wham bring on the funk... You can't figure out that great riff for a dance song.. Well again choose an arpeggio and that solo just takes off.... Synths have their own little ways of helping you write music quicker as well.. People also knock the one finger style of triggering chords as cheating, but guess what...., synths have a way for you to cheat if you can't play that particular pattern in another key.. You play it in one key, copy the pattern, then you can automatically transpose that copied pattern to any key you want without ever having to play it over.. So if someone wants to say you're cheating with an arranger, it can also be said for a synth.

Squeak

[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 04-24-2003).]